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What ammo for mach lv4?

Author
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#1 - 2011-12-01 21:57:55 UTC
For 800mm autocannon, I've been using hail, republic fleet phased plasma, or republic fleet fusion. I have 3 tracking enhancers and 1 tracking computer with tracking speed script and I still 'barely scratch' battleships that are 64 km out...shouldn't I be getting perfect his on them?
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#2 - 2011-12-01 22:14:07 UTC
This is not a troll attempt or anything, its just my Mach isn't destroying stuff as quickly as I thought it would. Does it matter if I have minmatar and gallente battleship at 4 instead of 5? My other gunnery skills are pretty good and i'm using T2 guns.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2011-12-01 22:18:23 UTC
Omniwing wrote:
For 800mm autocannon, I've been using hail, republic fleet phased plasma, or republic fleet fusion. I have 3 tracking enhancers and 1 tracking computer with tracking speed script and I still 'barely scratch' battleships that are 64 km out...shouldn't I be getting perfect his on them?


Nope. Especially if you're using the tracking script. Swap that for optimal and you'll start to see better hits.

See, hit quality degrades based on falloff. The further past optimal you get, the lower the hit quality (or to be technical, the further in to falloff you get, the lower the hit quality, as extending falloff -- and thereby lowering the percent falloff of your actual range -- also helps).

See here for lots of details.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2011-12-01 22:18:31 UTC
I run T1 (faction) 800mm autocannons in my mission-runner mach, shooting plain ol' phased plasma ammo, and that seems to work fine. I am BS3 for both min and gal.
My mission-runner alt (BS 5 for both) uses blast and T2 800s which, again, works fine. Neither of us bothers changing ammo for the different types of mission rats. It would prolly speed things up a little but we're not keen on the fiddle-factor.

We've never used hail.

From memory I don't think we melt baddies at 64km, but they certainly start hurting bigtime once they're 50km away.

Our machs run 3 x gyro and 3 x tracking enhancers in their lows, and no tracking / targeting mods in their midslots ... just tank and prop mods there.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-12-01 22:40:23 UTC
Use T1 ammo of course, T2 and Faction is just too costly, you shouldn't need Barrage with the speed of the Mach and shoot the closest stuff first to do the most damage
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#6 - 2011-12-02 02:29:05 UTC
Hm ok...I'll try using T1 Phased Plasma and optimal range tracking computer, and see if that helps.

Any other suggestions from Mach-flying specialists on how to do level 4s the best way is welcome. I used to fly a Tengu and it was pretty EZ mode and I thought a mach would be faster but it doesn't seem so.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-12-02 05:06:12 UTC
Omniwing wrote:
Hm ok...I'll try using T1 Phased Plasma and optimal range tracking computer, and see if that helps.

Any other suggestions from Mach-flying specialists on how to do level 4s the best way is welcome. I used to fly a Tengu and it was pretty EZ mode and I thought a mach would be faster but it doesn't seem so.

Use an AB/MWD to get closer and get Barrage. Barrage is the reason to use autocannons, they add additional falloff. Combining some speed and a Barrage, you can fly the Mach like a cruiser to get in close to chew things up with T1 short range ammo but start with barrage at longer ranges (primarly use the barrage to take out scram/webbing frigs and EWAR cruisers if you can). I started with a Mach before I was able to get a Vargur, now I just use the Mach to do Serp Blockade which I used to hate and just get extra close to those dampers Twisted
Flakey Foont
#8 - 2011-12-02 05:34:41 UTC
A Mach with a tracking computer???/ Just get in there and fight that's why it is a fast ship with a vast tank...use drones for frigs.
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-12-02 10:33:59 UTC
I'm usually using Fusion and Phased Plasma (depending on enemies). Didn't try T2 ammo since Crucible. Before I didn't feel like it's worth the money, but not sure how that changed now.

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Firebolt145
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#10 - 2011-12-02 13:16:33 UTC
Don't bother using T2 ammo. Use faction ammo if you're blitzing, standard t1 ammo if you're all-clearing. Use a optimal range script on your tracking computer. Get trajectory analysis to IV if you haven't already. Use an MWD to move around faster.
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#11 - 2011-12-02 16:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Omniwing
So I'm confused. People are telling me to get inclose, but when I use my tactical layout and hover over my weapons it shows my range at like 60k like there are 3 bubbles and the 2nd last two are at 60k and 70k...I thought I was supposed to hit stuff at 60k, not close?


Edit: I tried barrage L and *HOLY ***** does that make a difference! I'm like, 1 shotting some things now. WAYYYYYY better than hail...

Ok apparently I just still don't understand guns that well even after playing this game for years.

So I thought that at 50% past your falloff and 50% under your optimal you lose accuracy. My guns say 4223m optimal and 61k falloff. So, I thought that meant that between 4223m and 64k I should be doing 100% damage, but this is not the case?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2011-12-02 17:44:49 UTC
Omniwing wrote:
So I thought that at 50% past your falloff and 50% under your optimal you lose accuracy. My guns say 4223m optimal and 61k falloff. So, I thought that meant that between 4223m and 64k I should be doing 100% damage, but this is not the case?


No. See the link I posted for details, but basically there are two factors at work (three I'd we want to throw in signature, but let's not for now). The first is tracking, which has no direct relationship to optimal OR falloff. If your gun can track as well or better than your relative angular velocity vis-a-vis your target, you hit. If not, you suffer a miss chance and a hit quality reduction (these are related, but let's skip on just how to keep it simple).

Second, you have range. IF YOU CAN TRACK, any shot within your optimal will hit. Outside of optimal we hit falloff, which slowly (at least for ACs; not so slowly for pulse lasers) degrades both your hit chance and your hit quality. At optimal plus falloff you do circa 40% damage on average due to how these factors combine. The decline is not linear, so at optimal plus half falloff your damage is still decent (again, providing you can track your targets).

By scripting your TC for tracking, you likely weren't changing your hit quality one bit (you could already track just fine). By scripting for range, you increase your optimal and your falloff, which means your targets aren't as deep into your falloff envelope, hence you hit more frequently and with better quality.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#13 - 2011-12-02 17:52:38 UTC
BCs and small will still melt in a few rounds at long distance, up to your maximum falloff range.

Personally I run a 4Gyro/3TE setup. Battleships are a pain to hit at long range with Faction shortrange ammo, Barrage is a better pick. Once they get within 40km though they pop relativly quickly.

Your tracking won't really get much better using a TC in the mids, if you're going to keep it, use an optimal script.


Alternativly if you want to shred through things, go for an Artillery Mach, lower DPS due to the cycle time, but when you're instapopping battleships with 12k volley then it's hardly a concern.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

agrajag119
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-12-02 18:52:22 UTC
A mach runs missions much like a tengu honestly. The big change to remember is to *not* move. Just sit there, seriously.

The falloff scripted computer advice earlier is sounds, as is the t1 phased plasma / fusion (angels).

As you warp in, target the frigs first and try to blow them up before they get in close. You should be be able to knock most of them out, the rest get to meet your drones.

From there move on up the ship size ladder to dessies \ cruisers \ bc's \ bs's. The idea here is to kill all the smaller stuff while they are still running straight at you, which means nearly zero transversal. That effectively takes tracking out of the hit equation, which means frigs will get vollied.
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#15 - 2011-12-02 23:11:50 UTC
After running with both, I'm leaning towards the Tengu being better...it just seems like it kills stuff in the same amount of time but a lot easier (no tank worries, no range worries)
salty alt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-12-03 08:09:16 UTC
Omniwing wrote:
After running with both, I'm leaning towards the Tengu being better...it just seems like it kills stuff in the same amount of time but a lot easier (no tank worries, no range worries)

you're doing it wrong!

There is no way that a Tengu is faster. Its a good mission ship and true is alot more of a 'forget about me' ship, but doesnt compete with an actively piloted Mach.

Machs shine when fitted with 4 x faction gyros, 3 x TE, MWD and XL burst tanks. No need for Tracking Comp in the mids - if you handle your range properly you will track and apply *alot* of DPS. I used to use a Tracking Comp but it had no effect in reality and dropped it for a 15km web but it could be anything in that slot really.

As the other posters say. Warp in, remain still (or directly approach individual frigs), aggress and shoot scrambling / webbing frigs as they come at you. Deal with them and then just blap. You can kill rats out to 70km but your best kill zone is around 20km so MWD pulse to this and you will track everything. Leave the BS till last and then zoom up to them and orbit at optimal. Very rarely need to deploy drones. T2 / faction ammo is not cost efficient... use 5% hardwirings instead.

Two high sp alts in Machs makes me 120m+ isk / hour missioning.
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#17 - 2011-12-03 18:51:43 UTC
Thank you Salty for your input. Liked you!
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#18 - 2011-12-05 08:41:22 UTC
you cant expect huge dps on target that is 64k away thats almost @ the end of your falloff so you should try to close is as soon as possible or if you cant use barrage.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#19 - 2011-12-05 09:56:31 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
A Mach with a tracking computer???/ Just get in there and fight that's why it is a fast ship with a vast tank...use drones for frigs.




>Mach
>Vast tank
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#20 - 2011-12-05 10:16:46 UTC
Can the commenters in this thread please suggest why scripting a tracking computer for optimal, with weapons that operate in falloff, is a good idea? No? No?

No.

Either use it unscripted, or script it for tracking speed.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

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