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Address no-force field POS cynos (aka; the "Garage Door Cyno")

First post
Author
Emizeko Chai
Freight Club
#41 - 2015-02-20 18:48:54 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Honestly, your better bet to get CCP to do something about this is to continue filing petitions.


No, it really isn't. But it's refreshing that you're new enough to EVE to think that.
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#42 - 2015-02-20 18:50:50 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:

So basically, you started this thread because you're mad no one got banned for breaking a rule when no one told them ahead of time that they were breaking the rule? You understand the concept of "warnings," right?


Warnings to pilots for a type of occasional transgression is fine. However, as a very regular and avid hunter of all things Jump Drive, I assure you that this tactic is no-longer as very occasional as it once was.

Because it's no-longer occasional and now happens very often, it's time for CCP to take action in the form of hard enforcement - change the behavior of cynos around a online POS. In the end, this means that CCP GMs get fewer petitions on the subject; and pilots are forced to obey the rule rather than being kindly asked to.

I mean, Fozzie & Co saw fit to change fighter and fighter bomber scan res to address a DPS exploit that practically no one in their right mind would use (yes, I'm going to sit my super on top of this structure at 0ms, unaligned, just to up my DPS a trivial amount), so maybe they'll expend the energy addressing an actual problem.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#43 - 2015-02-20 19:22:42 UTC
Not only is this method used as the OP states, but people also use the same online FF method to "Skynet". Basically a carrier or super sits by a online tower with no password, assigns fighters to a fleet member in local for more DPS, and when someone shows up at the tower, they put in the password and the shield comes up.

I say you can easily fix this by putting a timer on how long it takes for the FF to come up. I think 1 minute would do.
Nashh Kadavr
Hostile.
#44 - 2015-02-20 19:26:00 UTC
+1
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#45 - 2015-02-20 23:01:47 UTC
Bobby Artrald wrote:
Add an online timer for the shields after the password is set and be done with it.

So I activate the Force field and before the timer expires light the cyno. You've just delayed activation, not resolved the issue: having a Cyno within the confines of a potentially active force field.


Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#46 - 2015-02-20 23:12:19 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Not only is this method used as the OP states, but people also use the same online FF method to "Skynet". Basically a carrier or super sits by a online tower with no password, assigns fighters to a fleet member in local for more DPS, and when someone shows up at the tower, they put in the password and the shield comes up.

I say you can easily fix this by putting a timer on how long it takes for the FF to come up. I think 1 minute would do.


Unlike having an active Cyno within the force field, any advantage or benefit provided by the carrier is lost when the force field goes up.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Doomchinchilla
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#47 - 2015-02-21 03:20:19 UTC
This method is one of the most annoying methods of cynoing supers and titans around. If CCP has declared this an exploit they need to start clamping down and enforcing it.
Jassmin Joy
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#48 - 2015-02-21 19:02:13 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Not only is this method used as the OP states, but people also use the same online FF method to "Skynet". Basically a carrier or super sits by a online tower with no password, assigns fighters to a fleet member in local for more DPS, and when someone shows up at the tower, they put in the password and the shield comes up.

I say you can easily fix this by putting a timer on how long it takes for the FF to come up. I think 1 minute would do.


Unlike having an active Cyno within the force field, any advantage or benefit provided by the carrier is lost when the force field goes up.


I think the point he is trying to make is that the current mechanics allow for Pos' to be used in multiple ways that are questionable, Two of these would be the garage door and skynet, yes?
Wren Der
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#49 - 2015-02-21 19:11:39 UTC
Simply not allowing the forcefield to be put up if there is a cyno next to it (25km + forcefield radius) is a fix to the garage door exploit and makes it a whole lot dangerous to use the skynet thing (assign fighters from a online pos w/ no forcefield)
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#50 - 2015-02-21 23:33:17 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:

So basically, you started this thread because you're mad no one got banned for breaking a rule when no one told them ahead of time that they were breaking the rule? You understand the concept of "warnings," right?

CCP: Hey, you're not supposed to do that, even though we never made it public that you shouldn't.
Titan Pilot: Opps, didn't know that, won't do it again.
CCP: See that you don't.

That is a warning, and as long as the Titan pilot stops doing what he shouldn't be doing, then all is good, and they will continue to log on, as you've experienced.

Honestly, your better bet to get CCP to do something about this is to continue filing petitions. If they're jumping in, waiting for the cyno to run out, then raising the shield, they're not breaking any rules.


But it is publicly stated on the Eve Wiki. Claiming ignorance doesn't get you far.

The fact is, we have been filing petitions on this maneuver for years. With the gross increase in this happening over the past year alone, we feel that it's time for CCP to mechanically back up their own rule.

And yes, I am a bit peeved. When you go through the (sometimes days-long) time and effort to research a target, track it, move alts and marshal people into position only to have your quarry o7 illegally into a garage door pos, you would be lying through your teeth if you weren't even the slightest bit frustrated. Like I said earlier, once in a while is once in a while. Everyday, however, changes the picture.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#51 - 2015-02-22 02:13:41 UTC
Jassmin Joy wrote:
Petrified wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Not only is this method used as the OP states, but people also use the same online FF method to "Skynet". Basically a carrier or super sits by a online tower with no password, assigns fighters to a fleet member in local for more DPS, and when someone shows up at the tower, they put in the password and the shield comes up.

I say you can easily fix this by putting a timer on how long it takes for the FF to come up. I think 1 minute would do.


Unlike having an active Cyno within the force field, any advantage or benefit provided by the carrier is lost when the force field goes up.


I think the point he is trying to make is that the current mechanics allow for Pos' to be used in multiple ways that are questionable, Two of these would be the garage door and skynet, yes?


I'll agree that the Garage door is questionable. Skynet, on the other hand, I do not believe questionable at all since any benefit derived is lost once the POS field covers the ship. The issue people have with the Garage Door tactic is that the benefit does not vanish when the force field covers the ship and cyno.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#52 - 2015-02-22 02:29:31 UTC
Petrified wrote:

I'll agree that the Garage door is questionable. Skynet, on the other hand, I do not believe questionable at all since any benefit derived is lost once the POS field covers the ship. The issue people have with the Garage Door tactic is that the benefit does not vanish when the force field covers the ship and cyno.


And we've gotten around skynet with a little distracting hand and a big hammer.
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#53 - 2015-02-22 13:21:27 UTC
I do have a feeling though, that if this gets fixed it will just be taken to the next level with onlining towers.
Tower online in 10 seconds, cyno up and jump. Your session timer wont be over before the POS is ready to get a bubble up.
So where do we draw the line? Cynos can't be activated within [range] of onlining/online towers? As much as I disagree with this method of cynos, a lot restrictions has to be made
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-02-22 14:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmer Jones
I'm linking this post so no one will actually take the idea seriously, it is where it belongs. It would **** off everyone with a jump capable ship, but that is the FOTM apparently.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5512608#post5512608

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-02-22 16:44:04 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
But the combination of lighting a cyno next to a Online/no-FF Tower only to immediately raise the force field once the super/titan hits grid is questionable, as the intent of this whole chain of events is to move a capital using method that has no reasonable counter or exposure to any danger.

Dreads, siege mode, offline tower, problem solved. Not sure why you cannot see that as a solution, if you are not flying a dread to knock down an offline tower before its used then you really have nothing to stand on and whine about an "exploit" that can be prevented before it starts. Don't want to shoot towers, don't want to fly caps....but want the killmails, stop whining and be proactive while the players you are hunting are off line, obviously you found their towers/systems/character names Roll. The method to counter the exploit if you didn't figure it out is knock over their tower and **** on their sandbox Twisted


Hyun-a wrote:


There were two main groups of people aware of this tactic before the changes to the distance from forcefield/cyno mechanic came in:


  • Those who used it, knowing it to be an exploit, to move capitals in a 100% risk free environment despite the so called 'punishments' from CCP.
  • Those who hunted other people jumping capitals to POS cyno's.


lol risk free. Must be playing on the test server. On the live server, you can be shot at anywhere, anytime, by anyone. Get off you butt, fly a dread, and knockdown the tower before the shield is up. I explained as a counter method in the previous paragraph, you can be proactive and take it out before the ship jumps in or whine about it on the forums cause you lack the ability to do so. If shields go up to fast right now, that is a simple fix for CCP to make it a few minutes with zero resists or something on the tower even if the tower is anchored but the shields are in active (to make the tower easier to kill, problem solved).


Estella Osoka wrote:
Not only is this method used as the OP states, but people also use the same online FF method to "Skynet". Basically a carrier or super sits by a online tower with no password, assigns fighters to a fleet member in local for more DPS, and when someone shows up at the tower, they put in the password and the shield comes up.

I say you can easily fix this by putting a timer on how long it takes for the FF to come up. I think 1 minute would do.

Would agree with this, if a drone ship is sitting on a POS an aggression timer should be implemented that lasts longer from fighters/bombers and if the shield goes up it kicks the ship away from the tower, as well as a slower shield activation.

I see the problem as the shields activate too fast and some players (the whiners in this thread) lack the ability to destroy things unless its not in an actual fight (aka moving cap is probably not set up for combat or escorted, easy kill for scrubs...where is the risk for you? Roll).
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#56 - 2015-02-22 18:39:28 UTC
Aqriue wrote:

Dreads, siege mode, offline tower, problem solved. Not sure why you cannot see that as a solution, if you are not flying a dread to knock down an offline tower before its used then you really have nothing to stand on and whine about an "exploit" that can be prevented before it starts. Don't want to shoot towers, don't want to fly caps....but want the killmails, stop whining and be proactive while the players you are hunting are off line, obviously you found their towers/systems/character names Roll. The method to counter the exploit if you didn't figure it out is knock over their tower and **** on their sandbox Twisted


I take it you've never really hunted supers before, and aren't familiar with the time-sensitive and random nature of it. I also don't believe that you're familiar with he subtlety it demands.

Suppose you DID know that the guy was going to garage door, and you DID know in advance where, down to the moon, it would happen, and you DID have enough time to to blap a tower that probably has stront in it (a online tower with no FF still goes into RF you know) and the target DOESN'T get spooked at all by a bunch of dreads landing on a tower he's about to cyno his super/titan to, then yes, that would work.

But you ideal vision isn't what really happens in practice.
Wren Der
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#57 - 2015-02-23 20:22:15 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
lol risk free. Must be playing on the test server. On the live server, you can be shot at anywhere, anytime, by anyone.


That's where you are terribly wrong. Using this method you can avoid being so much as targeted, let alone shot. You jump to the cyno and have a invulnerability timer, during that timer you enter in the POS password and you are home safe, every other ship that isn't you gets booted out of the forcefield.
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#58 - 2015-03-04 11:11:19 UTC
bumping. Fix this sh!t
Aimel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#59 - 2015-03-04 11:13:39 UTC
+1
Lory Whole
Volatile Instability
#60 - 2015-03-04 13:21:12 UTC
+1 aswell