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SKYNET.

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maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-02-19 13:49:45 UTC
Is skynet becoming a problem?
Put your thoughts.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#2 - 2015-02-19 13:55:24 UTC
My thoughts are my own, you cannot have them.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#3 - 2015-02-19 14:03:35 UTC
Skynet has always been just as silly as off-grid boosters. Nothing new in that.

I fly Triage Archons. Skynet carrier pilots are pussies. I point my finger at you and laugh mockingly, you plebeians.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2015-02-19 14:16:40 UTC
Assuming your talking about what I think you are then the main problems are pretty simply sorted IMO by (somewhat arbitrarily) making it so that fighters can't be deployed within the normal FF radius of a POS whether its online or not and giving fighters titan style (with some changes to the parameters) damage scaling so that it is much harder for them to apply damage to smaller cruisers and downwards - with the right parameters this would (should) have no impact on their ability to hit bigger stuff (i.e. BCs and upwards).
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2015-02-19 14:19:34 UTC
Fighters should lose the effects of all modules on the carrier/super once they are assigned.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#6 - 2015-02-19 14:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Rroff wrote:
Assuming your talking about what I think you are then the main problems are pretty simply sorted IMO by (somewhat arbitrarily) making it so that fighters can't be deployed within the normal FF radius of a POS whether its online or not and giving fighters titan style (with some changes to the parameters) damage scaling so that it is much harder for them to apply damage to smaller cruisers and downwards - with the right parameters this would (should) have no impact on their ability to hit bigger stuff (i.e. BCs and upwards).

I don't think that damage application from on-grid carriers is an issue. Fighters have sufficiently bad tracking and velocity if you cannot afford to fill all of your module slots with tracking enhancers and navigation computers.

EDIT: The above suggestion by Jin isn't actually half-bad either. Skynet carriers are so effective exactly because they can forgo tank and capacitor and fit an obscene amount of drone damage, navigation and tracking modules.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-02-19 15:06:32 UTC
Fighters seem to be fine in my book so I don't really know what the OP is complaining about.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#8 - 2015-02-19 15:29:51 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Fighters seem to be fine in my book so I don't really know what the OP is complaining about.


http://puu.sh/g3jX2/fa783efa62.jpg

You really want to try saying that again with a straight face. Straight

Yaay!!!!
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-02-19 15:50:27 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Fighters seem to be fine in my book so I don't really know what the OP is complaining about.

Fine, I guess u are one of the dudes that assigns his drones to a insta lock frigate gate camping.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-02-19 16:36:33 UTC
Can somebody please define the meme "SKYNET" in EvE? I know it is a reference to the Terminator movies, but I can't connect it to EvE ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#11 - 2015-02-19 16:49:56 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Can somebody please define the meme "SKYNET" in EvE? I know it is a reference to the Terminator movies, but I can't connect it to EvE ...

Skynet is a fairly new new term for the fashionable tactic of assigning fighters or fighter bombers to small ships from the safety of a POS and using them as heavy DPS all over the system without putting the carrier or supercarrier at risk.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#12 - 2015-02-19 16:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Tipa Riot wrote:
Can somebody please define the meme "SKYNET" in EvE? I know it is a reference to the Terminator movies, but I can't connect it to EvE ...


It;'s a term some idjot or another applied to the fact that carriers can delegate control of fighters to other ships off grid while sitting in a safe/at a pos/on a station etc. The use of the term is to pretend something that has existed for a decade is somehow new and unbalanced when in reality it's old and the users of the term of butt hurt at some loss ....to an old game mechanic.

Just like "drone assist", the users of the term misidentify the problem. Instead of putting the 'blame' where it belongs (on the inclusion of drone damage and tracking mods and buffing of Drone ships like the Ishtar, things that didn't exist in the past), they instead focus on the older game mechanics (Drone Assist, Fighter Delegation) and lose their minds. Mainly because they like drone bonuses and drone mods but don't like it when other people use those things to kill them in a blob or from afar.

In other words, it's just the same old "those guys used something that killed me...ME of all people, Don't they know who the F$%^ I am? TO THE FORUMS/REDDIT to right this injustice!!!" crying we all shold be used to by now.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#13 - 2015-02-19 16:55:23 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
It;'s a term some idjot or another applied to the fact that carriers can delegate control of fighters to other ships off grid while sitting in a safe/at a pos/on a station etc. The use of the term is to pretend something that has existed for a decade is somehow new and unbalanced when in reality it's old and the users of the term of butt hurt at some loss ....to an old game mechanic.

Just like "drone assist", the users of the term misidentify the problem. Instead of putting the 'blame' where it belongs (on the inclusion of drone damage and tracking mods and buffing of Drone ships like the Ishtar, things that didn't exist in the past), the instead focus on the older game mechanics (Drone Assist, Fighter Delegation) and lose their minds. Mainly because they like drone bonuses and drone mods but don't like it when other people use those things to kill them in a blob or from afar.

In other words, it's just the same old "those guys used something that killed me...ME of all people, Don't they know who the F$%^ I am? TO THE FORUMS to right this injustice!!!" crying we all shold be used to by now.

It is true that assigning fighters was a fringe tactic before drone stat boosting modules were a thing. Drone modules themselves are also not really a problem, since you need to compromise tank and capacitor to fit them on an on-grid carrier, which means it will die in a fire in an amusing and embarassing manner.

It becomes a problem when you can fit a carrier for full damage and full damage application without ever putting it at risk, so you get fighters with unreasonably high tracking and damage without the tradeoffs you would otherwise have to suffer for those fitting choises.
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-02-19 16:56:57 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Can somebody please define the meme "SKYNET" in EvE? I know it is a reference to the Terminator movies, but I can't connect it to EvE ...

Off grid fighter assist from regular carriers or supers.
The carrier is usually positioned slightly outside of a POS force field so that he can get to safety almost instantly. (can also be sitting next to a freshly anchored tower that doesn't have a FF yet)
Since the carrier isn't in any realistic danger of getting shot it doesn't need to fit tank and can instead fit for max drone damage and application, which in turn enables them to even hit frigs.
The tactic itself has existed for a really long time, but it's relatively new that fighters get benefits from drone modules which enables them to apply insane dps even to small targets.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#15 - 2015-02-19 17:10:09 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
It;'s a term some idjot or another applied to the fact that carriers can delegate control of fighters to other ships off grid while sitting in a safe/at a pos/on a station etc. The use of the term is to pretend something that has existed for a decade is somehow new and unbalanced when in reality it's old and the users of the term of butt hurt at some loss ....to an old game mechanic.

Just like "drone assist", the users of the term misidentify the problem. Instead of putting the 'blame' where it belongs (on the inclusion of drone damage and tracking mods and buffing of Drone ships like the Ishtar, things that didn't exist in the past), the instead focus on the older game mechanics (Drone Assist, Fighter Delegation) and lose their minds. Mainly because they like drone bonuses and drone mods but don't like it when other people use those things to kill them in a blob or from afar.

In other words, it's just the same old "those guys used something that killed me...ME of all people, Don't they know who the F$%^ I am? TO THE FORUMS to right this injustice!!!" crying we all shold be used to by now.

It is true that assigning fighters was a fringe tactic before drone stat boosting modules were a thing. Drone modules themselves are also not really a problem, since you need to compromise tank and capacitor to fit them on an on-grid carrier, which means it will die in a fire in an amusing and embarassing manner.

It becomes a problem when you can fit a carrier for full damage and full damage application without ever putting it at risk, so you get fighters with unreasonably high tracking and damage without the tradeoffs you would otherwise have to suffer for those fitting choises.



That means the problem is the tracking mods and ability of fighters to benefit from those, not the actual mechanic of fighter delegation (which is the thing everyone seems to want nerfed).
Noriko Mai
#16 - 2015-02-19 17:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
Skynet is already active. Look up the amazon cloud incident on April 21st, 2011. It seems doing quite well on it's way to world domination.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#17 - 2015-02-19 17:22:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
That means the problem is the tracking mods and ability of fighters to benefit from those, not the actual mechanic of fighter delegation (which is the thing everyone seems to want nerfed).

I am arguing that those modules are fine and well in balance when used in on-grid drone boats, including carriers. These are the conditions ships should be balanced in.

Delegating was a fringe mechanic no one would have cared about, before these modules were added, so why should we lose the modules and keep the fringe mechanic no one would have missed if it was lost before it was made viable by the modules?
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#18 - 2015-02-19 17:33:12 UTC
I have been in fights with these fighters. They still have plenty of tracking problems. You also learn where these guys are, its not like they have a POS in every system. And if your doing FW or some such in such a system, it is not so hard to deal with the drones with a proper fleet. These things are not cheap (fighters and fighter bombers. )

But they don't show up on kill boards :(

Oh also does the carrier need to be outside the force field to assist? I would assume so, clearly dropping on top of a POS is no trivial matter however. But if so that is not zero risk.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#19 - 2015-02-19 17:40:40 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
That means the problem is the tracking mods and ability of fighters to benefit from those, not the actual mechanic of fighter delegation (which is the thing everyone seems to want nerfed).

I am arguing that those modules are fine and well in balance when used in on-grid drone boats, including carriers. These are the conditions ships should be balanced in.

Delegating was a fringe mechanic no one would have cared about, before these modules were added, so why should we lose the modules and keep the fringe mechanic no one would have missed if it was lost before it was made viable by the modules?


This is exaclty what I alluded to in my post. "I like being about to put on mods that boosts MY drones on grid, I don't like the fact that other people can do it from off grid).

The actual 'solution' (to this thing that isn't actually a problem) is to remove carrier and module bonuses from assigned fighters (like it used to be, fighters assigned from a Thanny were no better than any other carrier's fighters because the Thanny's fighter bonus wasn't applied to it's off grid fighters), not to screw with a mechanic that isn't actually the problem.
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-02-19 18:22:45 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Oh also does the carrier need to be outside the force field to assist?

Technically yes, but since they can just sit at the edge they can enter it at any moment.
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