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Battleship Fights

Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2015-02-20 11:25:30 UTC
Whysohorni wrote:


Perhaps large guns need a significant improvement to help them in hitting medium targets.


No they don't.
Auduin Ituin
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-02-20 11:32:49 UTC
Whysohorni wrote:
They're big, slow, and their guns have trouble hitting medium or smaller targets, so they are owned by T3 gangs and ishtars.

It's funny because battleships used to be the most powerful combat ships. After years of nerfs to them and boosts to other ships, now they're the worst.

Perhaps large guns need a significant improvement to help them in hitting medium targets.
While I agree with the first point, can't confirm/deny the 2nd, the 3rd is not exactly right. Neuts, webs, target painters. All can or will help against smaller ships. TPs = less tracking reduction (potentially a tracking bonus). Webs = Lower transversal. Neuts = could turn prop mod and such off, reducing transversal. The Armageddon is a great ship, range bonused heavy neuts with drones as the weapons.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#43 - 2015-02-20 12:45:02 UTC
In my mind the problem isnt HACs, as evidenced by one of the hard counters for an ishtar fleet being navy apocs, the problem is tech 3s.

Similar Ehp levels but with vastly smaller sigs, much faster warp times and not much less dps, theres a reason whenever we want a fleet that is fast, survivable and can still punch above its weight we pull out the t3s. I hope they take this into account once they get around to the rebalancing.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#44 - 2015-02-20 13:16:44 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:

Despite this there are BS fleets around (navy apocs). Funny thing about them is that they are not bombed off field with these mythical fleets of bomber wings. Well no more than what should be expected by normal balance game play.


Foxcats were specifically built around being a pain in the ass to bomb off the field while tracking at long range. Terrible example.
Vyl Vit
#45 - 2015-02-20 18:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
Umm...let's not forget personal skills. Big smile Like I said earlier, how this is being visualized isn't necessarily the be-all end-all scenario to consider. By the time you're proficient in a BS you should also be proficient in other things. All I've heard from the "BSs suck" group centers around the idea of using one like they'd use a frig, or a cruiser (which they use like a frig). One great assumption is the encounter will be range happy for the smaller ship. Why make this assumption? Why assume frigs and cruisers don't have to use a different tactic when trying to bull down a BS? Imagine if you will another scenario other than an in-transit BS has blundered into your gate camp.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2015-02-20 20:05:22 UTC
From what i've seen in my time in EvE, theres no real reason to train past cruiser, unless you want a cap. BC and BS's have been nerfed into pointlessness, I mean, i understand the point of view, why train to fly a BS well, when i can put that time towards a T3 or a HAC.
Just seems to me that the game's balance is hugely scewed, when a fleet would rather take a cruiser over a Battleship for DPS, as Battleships are supposed to be the biggest weapons platforms outside of caps.
How many trailers have CCP put out where there are these huge fleet battles with Battleships at the heart of them? I'm sure theres a misrepresentation in there somewhere.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2015-02-20 20:11:03 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:

Despite this there are BS fleets around (navy apocs). Funny thing about them is that they are not bombed off field with these mythical fleets of bomber wings. Well no more than what should be expected by normal balance game play.


Foxcats were specifically built around being a pain in the ass to bomb off the field while tracking at long range. Terrible example.


Same applies to any armour BS doctrine, bombers wont remove them. Bomber prey is the shield doctrines.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#48 - 2015-02-20 22:04:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
BS will see use again when T3s and the ishtar finally get their nerfes.



I'm two weeks from T3s so we can expect a nerf in 2 weeks.

Yeah that's right. Hey CCP, is that all you got? Hurt me plenty you'll have to do it twice because it'll feel good the first time. P

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Marsha Mallow
#49 - 2015-02-20 22:30:09 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
From what i've seen in my time in EvE, theres no real reason to train past cruiser, unless you want a cap. BC and BS's have been nerfed into pointlessness, I mean, i understand the point of view, why train to fly a BS well, when i can put that time towards a T3 or a HAC.
Just seems to me that the game's balance is hugely scewed, when a fleet would rather take a cruiser over a Battleship for DPS, as Battleships are supposed to be the biggest weapons platforms outside of caps.
How many trailers have CCP put out where there are these huge fleet battles with Battleships at the heart of them? I'm sure theres a misrepresentation in there somewhere.

I don't mean this in a snotty way, but if you are a newer player you might not remember when BS fleets dominated and everyone whinged endlessly about it.

Nullsec for me from 2009ish was Apoc/Mega heavy for years (which was a horrendous retrain for pure Cald spec, which a lot of scrub bears were upon leaving empire). Then we had DraekOnline, then Tempest/Maelstorm AlphaFleets, Abaddon Sit and Listen to Makalu Cry for Hours™, then PotatoFleet, then Nagas, Tengus and god knows how many other FOTM iterations. Bombers are awesome just for the screeching they generate. I quite enjoy being bombed and having the whole fleet decimated just to see who completely loses it first and runs to a forum to nerdrage.

Fair enough T3s and Ishtars are a bit OP atm, and it's been an issue for a while, but so what? There's always a FOTM doctrine, and there's always an overpowered mechanic. At least the recent stuff is quick to train. When T3s are rebalanced there'll be screaming the likes we hardly get to see - it's probably wise to spread this out after the Phoebe changes. So we can enjoy it properly. The recent emphasis on making smaller ships viable again was something we bloody well asked for. These comps are cheap and nippy, and god knows no-one enjoys grinding as a second job.

At least try the newly released stuff before complaining. The new T3 dessies are quite fun.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2015-02-20 22:32:26 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
BS will see use again when T3s and the ishtar finally get their nerfes.



I'm two weeks from T3s so we can expect a nerf in 2 weeks.

Yeah that's right. Hey CCP, is that all you got? Hurt me plenty you'll have to do it twice because it'll feel good the first time. P


Im banking on fanfest.
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#51 - 2015-02-21 04:32:47 UTC
While we're complaining, how about the cost of them! An Armageddon used to be 50 million, and now it's nearly 200 mil. I understand the idea of "tiericide" was to boost all those frigates that everyone never flew again after the tutorials, and all the cruisers that weren't the one or two best of each race. It seems that they went the opposite way with battleships -- nerf them all and triple the price of the cheaper ones.

Also: HACs were "ruining EVE" long before T3s. When they nerf T3s the game will still be mostly HACs-Online. I would still throw caution to the wind and take out battleships against HACs (spider tanking used to work well) but the cost is unbelievable now.
Whittorical Quandary
Amarrian Infinity
#52 - 2015-02-21 04:59:24 UTC
Ironically RL battleships in this day and age have been nerfed due to aircraft and carriers, which have pretty much made them useless. to the point i'm not sure if the US Navy even has any operating outside of museums.

One of the last ones i remember that was still in use (retired now) was used for hitting large stationary targets along the coastline. supported by a fleet of ships to support with anti air weaponry.

To this extent you can say battleships in pvp would be strictly for combat against other capitol ships and for use against POS's with a fleet of support ships to pick off the smaller bombers and such.

Never used a BS in a situation like this so idk if that's plausable in game.

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine."

— Abraham Lincoln

SkyFlyer
The Last Hope
#53 - 2015-02-21 06:23:13 UTC
Battleship PvP Isn't dead its just not seen much, however if you want to see some check out my Bio ingame and watch my Videos of Gloriously taking multi billion ships solo into fights against the odds :<
Auduin Ituin
Doomheim
#54 - 2015-02-21 06:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Auduin Ituin
Kestral Anneto wrote:
From what i've seen in my time in EvE, theres no real reason to train past cruiser, unless you want a cap. BC and BS's have been nerfed into pointlessness, I mean, i understand the point of view, why train to fly a BS well, when i can put that time towards a T3 or a HAC.
Just seems to me that the game's balance is hugely scewed, when a fleet would rather take a cruiser over a Battleship for DPS, as Battleships are supposed to be the biggest weapons platforms outside of caps.
How many trailers have CCP put out where there are these huge fleet battles with Battleships at the heart of them? I'm sure theres a misrepresentation in there somewhere.
PvE (Incursions) and they have a few special things.
Vindicator - Super high DPS+90% webs (although the other serp ships can get 90% webs as well).
Machariel - Epic Kiter. Can solo small cruiser gangs.
Marauders - Super Tanky, long range.
Blops - Blops.
Armageddon - Range Bonused neuts (and can use heavies) with drones as weapon system.
Bhaalgorn - Can infinitely drain cap using heavy nos and mix that with heavy neuts to reduce the cap of anything by a ton.
Dominix - Drone using battleship, so it can be fit for rr/cap transfers and become super strong.
Scorpion - ECM burst range bonused. ECM bonuses.
Maybe some other stuff..
SkyFlyer
The Last Hope
#55 - 2015-02-21 06:53:08 UTC
PvP Aspect of Auduins View:

Vindicator : Can do either serious kick ass DPS (shield fitted) with still a quiet heavy tank (~2k) or else Armor vindicator which does decently personally to do any serious work it has to be pimped.

Machariel: Same as above which tbh the Armor mach is quiet fun :<

Bhaalgorn: With the right fit (discussed in the Bhaalgorn thread) this thing can rip apart any of your "Oh im so leet nano gang" aslong as you don't get jammed :<

Nestor: Overlord 'nuff said people just need to learn to use it.

Barghest: a pile of shite

Nightmare: Please go and see ssagat & Chessurs videos for correct usage

Rattlesnake:It doesn't matter if you fit this thing with ASBs or active tank this does serious DPS with still a p sick tank on it, would recommend it for pvp 10/10.

Faction Battleship: all of them are pretty worth it tbh , but i just think they are too cheap :<

Well Marauders and Black Ops are a league of their own as each of them has a role and with the Marauder having Bastion this thing is a beast (please see my videos for reference) , however people like to cyno kill those :D

Black ops im yet to try D:
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#56 - 2015-02-21 08:08:12 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
I feel your pain Sad

Everyone feels the pain...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#57 - 2015-02-21 15:39:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Just go for even bigger things. Like carriers.


I just cooked up a titan with 3au warp speed, align time that isnt terrible and able to blap subcaps. If only I had the isk to throw at a project this stupidSad


I can only assume it is a leviathan as that doesn't have the "Turrets fitted to this ship will do reduced damage to small targets" bit.

I was considering buying a Ragnarok to alpha battleships but they nerfed titan guns Sad

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#58 - 2015-02-21 15:47:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
BS will see use again when T3s and the ishtar finally get their nerfes.



I'm two weeks from T3s so we can expect a nerf in 2 weeks.

Yeah that's right. Hey CCP, is that all you got? Hurt me plenty you'll have to do it twice because it'll feel good the first time. P


Im banking on fanfest.


they keep saying they will do it, and they have done nearly everything else now, plus it is a pretty big thing that they migh as well keep up their sleeve for another month... so I'd say likely.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#59 - 2015-02-23 17:40:05 UTC
SkyFlyer wrote:
Battleship PvP Isn't dead its just not seen much, however if you want to see some check out my Bio ingame and watch my Videos of Gloriously taking multi billion ships solo into fights against the odds :<

I don't do a lot of Youtubeing, but if I ever get around to watching some EVE videos, I plan to check out yours first. Can I ask for your take on how to fit + use an Armageddon for solo use?
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#60 - 2015-02-23 19:13:18 UTC
I hear the unironic raven is a thing.