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When will T3 Cruisers Changes Happen?
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Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2015-02-19 10:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruvin
Mary Killigrew wrote:
The Legion is ****. Cry

Proteus can have a proper combo for 7 Lows and 3 Mids, while the Legion can't. What? Not to mention LOL250 dps with a Cloak sub on. Cry

Cry



legion may not be the best , but its decent enough , and i really enjoy flying it, tbh i would be extreemly happy if they didnt "change it at all" not buff or nerf .

as for dps i can get 350 or so with cloaky legion .
But dont forget neut cloaked tackler one with 200k ehp. (prot cant do that )

tldr : leave the legion alone , dont buff it dont nerf it :D

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#22 - 2015-02-19 10:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Liafcipe9000
it's one of those things that are rated "Half Life 3" for chances of occurence.

along with What Awaits Beyond The Door.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#23 - 2015-02-19 10:41:39 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Hopefully they will murder subsystems, burn them and bury them to never be seen again, and just expand on the tactical modes of the destroyers when they address the cruisers. As the number of subsystem combinations is what has resulted in the current T3 issues.

This would make sense. I very much like what they have done with the Tactical Destroyers, and I suspect a similar scheme would work brilliantly for Stategic Cruisers as well.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-02-19 10:43:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Hopefully they will murder subsystems, burn them and bury them to never be seen again, and just expand on the tactical modes of the destroyers when they address the cruisers. As the number of subsystem combinations is what has resulted in the current T3 issues.

It has been stated, that subsystems will stay.
D3s and T3 while both being of sleeper origin, are separate and distinct styles of ships.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-02-19 12:27:15 UTC
Ruvin wrote:

legion may not be the best , but its decent enough , and i really enjoy flying it, tbh i would be extreemly happy if they didnt "change it at all" not buff or nerf .

as for dps i can get 350 or so with cloaky legion .
But dont forget neut cloaked tackler one with 200k ehp. (prot cant do that )

tldr : leave the legion alone , dont buff it dont nerf it :D


The Legion is probably the one in the "right" place (its got its use, its a little better than its equivelant HAC, but not stupidly so). The Loki and Proteus aren't ridiculous, but are probably due a slight retune. As for the Tengu, there is no way it isn't getting the hammer (I say this as someone who has more kills in a Tengu than any other ship, and has yet to ever lose one - its getting the hammer).
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-02-19 12:28:29 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Hopefully they will murder subsystems, burn them and bury them to never be seen again, and just expand on the tactical modes of the destroyers when they address the cruisers. As the number of subsystem combinations is what has resulted in the current T3 issues.


The subsystems is what make T3 cruisers shines above all other sub-caps in the game, why would they remove it? And where will all those subsystem skills go? If CCP does away with the subsytems they are going to open a can of worms that'll cause a whiplash for players who trained all T3 cruisers subs to 5. And the T3 Destroyers format pales in comparison unless they go with 5 mode changes instead of 3 or increase the depth of the attributes in each mode.
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-02-19 12:45:20 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Ruvin wrote:

legion may not be the best , but its decent enough , and i really enjoy flying it, tbh i would be extreemly happy if they didnt "change it at all" not buff or nerf .

as for dps i can get 350 or so with cloaky legion .
But dont forget neut cloaked tackler one with 200k ehp. (prot cant do that )

tldr : leave the legion alone , dont buff it dont nerf it :D


The Legion is probably the one in the "right" place (its got its use, its a little better than its equivelant HAC, but not stupidly so). The Loki and Proteus aren't ridiculous, but are probably due a slight retune. As for the Tengu, there is no way it isn't getting the hammer (I say this as someone who has more kills in a Tengu than any other ship, and has yet to ever lose one - its getting the hammer).


I'd say it should be the standard for all T3 cruisers. And it just so happens to be the one I'm lustfully eyeing down right now. Sigh... if only I played this game 3 or 4 years ago when the 100mn Tengu struck terror throughout the eve universe. If they nerf the Tengu anymore then they have already I might start crying.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#28 - 2015-02-19 12:51:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Soon

Yaay!!!!
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#29 - 2015-02-19 15:04:36 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Soon™


FTFY
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#30 - 2015-02-19 15:52:52 UTC
Segraina Skyblazer wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Hopefully they will murder subsystems, burn them and bury them to never be seen again, and just expand on the tactical modes of the destroyers when they address the cruisers. As the number of subsystem combinations is what has resulted in the current T3 issues.


The subsystems is what make T3 cruisers shines above all other sub-caps in the game, why would they remove it? And where will all those subsystem skills go? If CCP does away with the subsytems they are going to open a can of worms that'll cause a whiplash for players who trained all T3 cruisers subs to 5. And the T3 Destroyers format pales in comparison unless they go with 5 mode changes instead of 3 or increase the depth of the attributes in each mode.


CCP can just refund the SP. No big deal. I, too, kind of like the idea of killing subsystems and moving to the D3 method. Carrying around a mobile depot is kind of a bummer, T3s don't have very large cargo bays. The subsystems are pretty big too. And expensive. It is a fairly big cost in ISK value and cargo space to really be able to have the versatility that T3s are supposed to have.

But as Omnathious Deninard mentioned, CCP has said subsystems are staying for the cruisers.
Monofilament
Hat Creek Exploration and Salvage
#31 - 2015-02-19 16:37:37 UTC
How could they refund the SP if a capsuleer re-trained lost skill levels to V several times? I don't think subsystems are going anywhere.
Orlacc
#32 - 2015-02-19 16:39:42 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Hopefully they will murder subsystems, burn them and bury them to never be seen again, and just expand on the tactical modes of the destroyers when they address the cruisers. As the number of subsystem combinations is what has resulted in the current T3 issues.



Ridiculous. Think it through.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#33 - 2015-02-19 16:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Monofilament wrote:
How could they refund the SP if a capsuleer re-trained lost skill levels to V several times? I don't think subsystems are going anywhere.

Why should they? Those skill points have been lost trough legitimate gameplay and apparently been worth the investment, since they have been retrained several times.

There is no reason why CCP should ever refund SP lost in ship explosions, no matter what they might do with the skills themselves.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#34 - 2015-02-19 16:47:54 UTC
D3s don't really have a low enough sig to be fully caught by the powercreep train. People throw all three modes together and yell *bah, terribly OP*, when they really are just mildly OP. Else, the svipul doesn't have as much advantages over a sabre as people make it to have.

The svipul is without doubt fantastic, but there's some downsides to it aswell.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#35 - 2015-02-19 16:50:55 UTC
Monofilament wrote:
How could they refund the SP if a capsuleer re-trained lost skill levels to V several times? I don't think subsystems are going anywhere.


Hmm good point, I don't know if CCP's record of skill training history goes back any farther than our own.

SP loss, another thing I don't like about the T3 cruisers.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#36 - 2015-02-19 17:45:33 UTC
Subsystems are what make t3 cruisers t3s. And its awesome.

I would suspect that a re-balance would perhaps nerf t3 to the point where it is never better than any specialized t2 cruiser at that specific role. Not too much of a nurf in otherwords.

Perhaps also re balance subsystems that are hardly used or heavily underused.

If it is much of a nurf then well the SP lose would need to go away.

In terms of train times. Yea t3 are a very small step up from t2 with respect to train times. It is like only a few days for each to lvl 4 and typically i only have one or 2 at lvl 5. Right now training tactical reconfiguration lvl 5 and BS lvl 5. Now that is train times.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#37 - 2015-02-19 18:07:09 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Subsystems are what make t3 cruisers t3s. And its awesome.

I would suspect that a re-balance would perhaps nerf t3 to the point where it is never better than any specialized t2 cruiser at that specific role. Not too much of a nurf in otherwords.

Perhaps also re balance subsystems that are hardly used or heavily underused.

If it is much of a nurf then well the SP lose would need to go away.

In terms of train times. Yea t3 are a very small step up from t2 with respect to train times. It is like only a few days for each to lvl 4 and typically i only have one or 2 at lvl 5. Right now training tactical reconfiguration lvl 5 and BS lvl 5. Now that is train times.


Well subsystems need a rebalance. I am taking the stance that there are too many subsystems. Each of the 5 subsystes have 4 options, you can remove one of them in total (subsystems options go from 4 to 3), and merge its bonuses into the remaining three, making the options a lot better.

Yes you may lose some variety, but in total what you are doing is throwing out garbage subsystems and improving the remaining ones. so you do improve the subsystems in total by balancing out the bonuses and removing the useless ones.

Other than that, the only other significant issue is rigs. They currently hamstring these modular ships into being non-modular. While rigs are very important (I see you t2 trimarks), it would probably be better to toss rigging of these ships out the door, and instead build in what would be the most typical rig bonuses into the subsystems themselves (making them even better). It might just be a better option to remove rigs in total rather than having the ability to switch out rigs (too many headaches). When subsystems are fixed, dump out all rigs currently on t3's into their cargo, so they can sell them. Most of the stuff that rigs do can be added to the subsystems themselves (hp buffer, cap recharge, dps increase, tracking bonuses, etc).

The cloaking subsystems have some issues with them. I don't want 400+ dps kiting cloaking t3's shooting people at 40k, but some ships dps options are anemic, they could use a pass through.

Yaay!!!!
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-02-20 12:42:15 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Monofilament wrote:
How could they refund the SP if a capsuleer re-trained lost skill levels to V several times? I don't think subsystems are going anywhere.


Hmm good point, I don't know if CCP's record of skill training history goes back any farther than our own.

SP loss, another thing I don't like about the T3 cruisers.


Yep, and that's exactly why I haven't flown my Legion on another toon in null sec yet. I'll accept the removal of subsytems if they also do away with the SP loss on death.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-02-20 15:41:06 UTC
Mary Killigrew wrote:
The Legion is ****. Cry

Proteus can have a proper combo for 7 Lows and 3 Mids, while the Legion can't. What? Not to mention LOL250 dps with a Cloak sub on. Cry

Cry


I beg to differ... The Legion is awesome.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Mary Killigrew
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-02-20 16:41:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mary Killigrew
Ruvin wrote:
Mary Killigrew wrote:
The Legion is ****. Cry

Proteus can have a proper combo for 7 Lows and 3 Mids, while the Legion can't. What? Not to mention LOL250 dps with a Cloak sub on. Cry

Cry



legion may not be the best , but its decent enough , and i really enjoy flying it, tbh i would be extreemly happy if they didnt "change it at all" not buff or nerf .

as for dps i can get 350 or so with cloaky legion .
But dont forget neut cloaked tackler one with 200k ehp. (prot cant do that )

tldr : leave the legion alone , dont buff it dont nerf it :D


Prot can do 370k EHP with 650 cold DPS. Blink