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Caldari T3 Destroyer next?

Author
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-03-31 21:47:26 UTC
They both gonna suck, i dont like the slots layout.
6 mids for Caldari = tank + tackle/prop but 2 lows not gonna help with damage.
4,4 slots for Gallente nothing enough to specialize on tank, tackle/prop, dps.
You armor tank it? no slots for mag stabs.
You shield tank it ? No + tackle/prop.
Sinclair Spectrum ZX
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-04-03 11:00:11 UTC
These new destroyers are a bad idea. They just make a bunch of other ships redundant, just like the T3 cruisers did.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2015-04-03 12:16:53 UTC
Atomeon wrote:
They both gonna suck, i dont like the slots layout.
6 mids for Caldari = tank + tackle/prop but 2 lows not gonna help with damage.
4,4 slots for Gallente nothing enough to specialize on tank, tackle/prop, dps.
You armor tank it? no slots for mag stabs.
You shield tank it ? No + tackle/prop.


You lack of experience on how to narrow fit ships?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2015-04-03 12:17:43 UTC
Sinclair Spectrum ZX wrote:
These new destroyers are a bad idea. They just make a bunch of other ships redundant, just like the T3 cruisers did.


Please give some details on your statement.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
#65 - 2015-04-03 23:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
Hagika wrote:

Hmm gallente one will have a massive tank and the caldari one is horribly weak and missiles tend to suck..I had hopes for it being a rail boat but seems ccp loves for caldari to suck.


I beg to differ. Shield resist bonus + Sig radius bonus makes these things a pain to hit, and the high resists make active repping even more effective than on the Svipul, which can absorb a ton of damage itself.

Missiles and rockets exchange raw dmg per second for flawless damage application and fairly high volley damage that punches through active reps.

Also looks like you will be able to 10MN it like the others, while the Hecate only gets a bonus to mwd speed and cap use. So it looks like you ended up with a baby Tengu after all.

The Hecate is going to be awesome, but hybrids require proper range and tracking. If the Jackdaw can manage those issues, which shouldn't be a problem, then your complaints are invalid.

Although.... They ARE saving the best for last.....Twisted
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2015-04-06 19:16:11 UTC
I'm cautiously optimistic that the Jackdaw will be a hit. I like the layout for it to serve as a rocket/shield brawler or possibly a more finesse, kiting type role.

I also don't think it makes other ships redundant as there is always the cost-benefit analysis to be done. You won't buy a Jackdaw for suicide ganking since the price is likely to be equal to a dozen or more T1 destroyers. It also doesn't touch T2's since the roles are completely different.

Will be buying a Jackdaw on day 1.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#67 - 2015-04-08 14:54:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Chrall
Sinclair Spectrum ZX wrote:
These new destroyers are a bad idea. They just make a bunch of other ships redundant, just like the T3 cruisers did.

This is a poor argument. T2 Frigates make T1 Frigates redundant too. Should we not have T2 frigates? You pay more for an advanced ship. T1 frigates/destroyers are cheap; T2/T3 cost more and are more powerful.
T3 destroyers will be used by those that can afford them to replace the lower tiers. The lower tiers will be used when cost is a factor.
So what ships are being made redundant in the same or higher price tier (50m+)?
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#68 - 2015-04-08 15:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Chrall
Fenris Orion wrote:
Hagika wrote:

Hmm gallente one will have a massive tank and the caldari one is horribly weak and missiles tend to suck..I had hopes for it being a rail boat but seems ccp loves for caldari to suck.


Missiles and rockets exchange raw dmg per second for flawless damage application and fairly high volley damage that punches through active reps.


Some people think missiles suck because they have damage application issues against speed and small signatures. Don't confuse not affected by tracking as = 100% application. This page is a little dated but explains how missile damage if affected by ship speed and signature radius: UniWiki Missile Damage

Quote:
Also looks like you will be able to 10MN it like the others, while the Hecate only gets a bonus to mwd speed and cap use. So it looks like you ended up with a baby Tengu after all.

Since fiiting specs have not been released and fitting nerfs on current T3D announced it is less likely that 10MN will be a standard fit without some other sacrafice


Edit: With all that said, I still plan on training for and using a Jackdaw. I think they will be a fun ship. And rockets and light missiles are affected the least by damage application issues. If we can oversize prop it that would be great , but for PvE a MWD will work just fine.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2015-04-11 06:04:17 UTC
Terra Chrall wrote:
Sinclair Spectrum ZX wrote:
These new destroyers are a bad idea. They just make a bunch of other ships redundant, just like the T3 cruisers did.

This is a poor argument. T2 Frigates make T1 Frigates redundant too. Should we not have T2 frigates? You pay more for an advanced ship. T1 frigates/destroyers are cheap; T2/T3 cost more and are more powerful.
T3 destroyers will be used by those that can afford them to replace the lower tiers. The lower tiers will be used when cost is a factor.
So what ships are being made redundant in the same or higher price tier (50m+)?


^Science right there^

It's all opportunity-cost with T2/3 vessels. On one hand, you're getting better performance. On the other, you're likely paying many many times the price for the more advanced ship. In most cases, if you have a fairly steady stream of income - whether it be ratting when not in corp/alliance fleets or mining/trading/indy - the more advanced ship is the worthwhile investment. If you're constantly PvP'ing with little interest in making ISK, then its a tougher choice.

Skill and location should also come into play. Be honest with yourself, if you're fairly inexperienced at PvP, then don't bother with the costly T2 - you're probably going to lose a number of ships before you begin to consistently win your fights.