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Walking in stations

First post
Author
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#1581 - 2016-01-30 07:28:07 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
Also Fact = CCP can't build multiple avatar WIS into the game.. technically they cant do it. They tried and after a huge amount of development and cost all they were able to do was a single avatar room that in the initial release overheated peoples graphics cards.

Can you provide a source that says it is impossible? CCP said that? And it is not a lie?
I dont believe that to be true. In multiplayer game where you have many players playing simultanously, the company that makes it, suddenly forgot how to write a multiplayer game?

That just dont make any sense to me.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1582 - 2016-01-30 09:58:33 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
... Next, you have this 'storyline' feature that screams to have real interactions with it but in practice are actually worse than WoW quest pick ups. The most fun I get out of them is the agents constantly insulting me then complimenting me. It's hilarious. The concept of deep and meaningful storylines are lost in the mechanism of delivery, being dehumanized and unemotional. Again, the reality is the opposite of the apparent design. ....
You might like this

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#1583 - 2016-02-02 01:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Pandora Carrollon
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
You might like this


I did enjoy that and it echos a larger discussion I had with some popular GM's in a hallway at a game convention many, many years ago... pre-internet era. ( I think we had 300 baud BBS sites back then...)

We we bemoaning the AD&D concepts of adventuring (much like the 'quests' of most MMO's which AD&D predated by a long, long time). The discussion turned to how to prevent that. We discussed how Traveller felt like it had an openness to it, go places, discover things, but that too also got repetitive. So the idea was to make the characters (NPC's) that surround the PC's not flat and more vibrant. Each person around them should have some way of getting the players engaged.

I started using that concept a lot in my own RPG worlds and it worked out well, but work is the operative word. It was like I had to have 100 characters on hand for players to interact with... that's a lot of character thought and design!

Thanks for the video, it was great. It makes me want to play that game... reminds me of the old text based RPG games...

By the way, SWTOR seems to have taken this to heart with the new expasions. It's about the stories for the most part. Sure you can grind, but I pretty much play the storylines.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#1584 - 2016-02-02 14:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
A lot of fun is interaction between player characters, their personalities, social aspects of the game. For example in Warhammer 40K people personalize their figures to give them some character, and even they give them names, and those figures that survived many battles or have achieved something heroic have many personalizations.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1585 - 2016-02-02 23:06:00 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
... We we bemoaning the AD&D concepts of adventuring (much like the 'quests' of most MMO's which AD&D predated by a long, long time). ...
Speaking of questions, a lot of the basic designs for a quest could be tested in the stations, see how the players respond and then adapt and tweak it to put out into the main game.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#1586 - 2016-02-03 00:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Have you played Neverwinter Nights, the first, original? It had nice creator/editor called Aurora toolset and DM client in which you could build a lot of stuff and completely use it for multiplayer quest experience for creating your own adventures. If you can, look it up. It can be made for sure in EVE, but there would be a cost involved, mainly what I posted earlier. Still the amount of created assets and modules would need to be very high, and I dont know if amount of roleplayers in EVE would justify creation of such a tool for WIS, but maybe it would bring new ones to it. For sure it would be sandbox environment. REAL sandbox, where people are creating a content for others in the world of EVE.
Dyllan Ma'tar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1587 - 2016-02-03 01:36:20 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I've bugged CCP Explorer on Twitter about making Aura an entity in CQ, who walks around and answers questions, perhaps narrates show info text. I think the talking head version of Aura is under developed. Obviously CCP intended to use that trope, of a holographic info-woman.

Without rehashing the WiS debate, would a physical Aura be acceptable to you?


Absolutely not, I want a damn disembodied head floating around and an omnipresent voice, the way Glob intended.
Dyllan Ma'tar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1588 - 2016-02-03 01:38:21 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Have you played Neverwinter Nights, the first, original? It had nice creator/editor called Aurora toolset and DM client in which you could build a lot of stuff and completely use it for multiplayer quest experience for creating your own adventures. If you can, look it up. It can be made for sure in EVE, but there would be a cost involved, mainly what I posted earlier. Still the amount of created assets and modules would need to be very high, and I dont know if amount of roleplayers in EVE would justify creation of such a tool for WIS, but maybe it would bring new ones to it. For sure it would be sandbox environment. REAL sandbox, where people are creating a content for others in the world of EVE.


I remember. Don't think this would be cost effective with the current WiS engine, but that situation would be preferable to other knavery we'd get.
W33b3l
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1589 - 2016-02-03 02:33:03 UTC
You know I thought of something.. Forgetting for the moment that this thread is old as sin and kind of pointless.

CCP has been experimenting with micro transactions. Be it through Aurum or the skill trading system. You can argue skill trading being what you think it is all you want.. weather im right or you are doesn't matter. Its a way to make some money and get people into the game. (if it works or not).

What if they did go along with WIS and just AURUM the living crap out of it? Do it less for the space ship stuff since it agitates a lot of us old guys, and focus on the Avatars. I know they have a baseline down.. Ive seen the videos of an avatar actually walking in a station with in development art. It would give us psychopath space pilots something to shoot at when they do undock and not effect us otherwise while giving the people that dont understand eve and are used to other MMO's a map to get used to it and draw them in.

I know it sounds like blasphemy. But it makes sense and would be better then forcing us that never leave our ships to adapt to things we dont like. It would just be a question if it would be worth the resources needed to do it being moved that are currently working on the current game in space.

Just a thought. not sure if good or bad... but its a thought.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1590 - 2016-02-03 07:10:01 UTC
W33b3l wrote:
You know I thought of something.. Forgetting for the moment that this thread is old as sin and kind of pointless.

CCP has been experimenting with micro transactions. Be it through Aurum or the skill trading system. You can argue skill trading being what you think it is all you want.. weather im right or you are doesn't matter. Its a way to make some money and get people into the game. (if it works or not).

What if they did go along with WIS and just AURUM the living crap out of it? Do it less for the space ship stuff since it agitates a lot of us old guys, and focus on the Avatars. I know they have a baseline down.. Ive seen the videos of an avatar actually walking in a station with in development art. It would give us psychopath space pilots something to shoot at when they do undock and not effect us otherwise while giving the people that dont understand eve and are used to other MMO's a map to get used to it and draw them in.

I know it sounds like blasphemy. But it makes sense and would be better then forcing us that never leave our ships to adapt to things we dont like. It would just be a question if it would be worth the resources needed to do it being moved that are currently working on the current game in space.

Just a thought. not sure if good or bad... but its a thought.


Wouldn't really be necessary to do that and could be counterproductive. The profitability of avatar based social games far outstrips any free for all PvP game. WIS doesn't hurt anyone who likes PvP rather on the contrary if the popularity of WIS matched traditional ratios you'd likely see the WIS income supplementing development of PvP.

Recalling nearly every online game I've ever played you'd have around 100 to 200 on PvP server and 800 to 1000 on non-PvP, or a similar ratio.

That's the thing that doesn't make a lot of sense when PvPrs are getting on here saying the majority don't want it. The ones who would benefit the most.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
#1591 - 2016-02-03 08:52:59 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
Also Fact = CCP can't build multiple avatar WIS into the game.. technically they cant do it. They tried and after a huge amount of development and cost all they were able to do was a single avatar room that in the initial release overheated peoples graphics cards.


Fact:

Nothing is impossible in software. It's just a question of how much trouble you're willing to go through.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#1592 - 2016-02-04 02:20:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
... We we bemoaning the AD&D concepts of adventuring (much like the 'quests' of most MMO's which AD&D predated by a long, long time). ...
Speaking of questions, a lot of the basic designs for a quest could be tested in the stations, see how the players respond and then adapt and tweak it to put out into the main game.

The idea of giving the human toon itself a personality and identity could turn into something huge. As Eve is now, the character at the moment is really the ship you're flying. If you invite someone who might like the game to join, what do they usually say?
-"Why can't I ever see my character?"
-"What, I can't fly my ship around in space [like a flight sim/arcardey shooter]?"
-"Why can't I land on the planets?"

Those questions might seem absurd to us as EVE players, but they don't seem silly to people coming from other good MMOs. I think the biggest one is, "Why can't I get out of my ship and see my character?" Not being able to be a controllable human in the game sometimes makes it too abstract for many people to get into. (Examples: Wives and girlfriends of friends of hardcore male EVE players. Many of whom were brilliant and very intense players of other MMOs. But in the end, EVE didn't appeal to them for whatever reason. I suspect it was because of the idea of building a social identity around.... what? Your Thrasher flying from here to there? Your jockstrap KB, that only you really ever look at?)

Anyway, Eve has the char animations already built for WIS. And DUST already has on-planet environments built. A lot of the New Eden world is already built and ready for players to go into. The EVE Online systems and spaceships world is already extremely developed and constantly tuned, of course. If with a few game design decisions, CCP could create real incentives to go between EVE ships and WIS characters-- (and also DUST planetside guys)-- how addictive could that be?

TL;DR version: CCP has already done the hard tech development part. After that, it's just some game design things to put in. ("Mysterious Stranger in the corner of the bar"). ("Take the space elevator to the planet surface"). Could add dimensions to the game, and make it more than just a very clever shooter/ISK-gathering/higher-level shooting thing. With only a few design ideas needed.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1593 - 2016-02-04 07:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
... We we bemoaning the AD&D concepts of adventuring (much like the 'quests' of most MMO's which AD&D predated by a long, long time). ...
Speaking of questions, a lot of the basic designs for a quest could be tested in the stations, see how the players respond and then adapt and tweak it to put out into the main game.

The idea of giving the human toon itself a personality and identity could turn into something huge. As Eve is now, the character at the moment is really the ship you're flying. If you invite someone who might like the game to join, what do they usually say?
-"Why can't I ever see my character?"
-"What, I can't fly my ship around in space [like a flight sim/arcardey shooter]?"
-"Why can't I land on the planets?"

Those questions might seem absurd to us as EVE players, but they don't seem silly to people coming from other good MMOs. I think the biggest one is, "Why can't I get out of my ship and see my character?" Not being able to be a controllable human in the game sometimes makes it too abstract for many people to get into. (Examples: Wives and girlfriends of friends of hardcore male EVE players. Many of whom were brilliant and very intense players of other MMOs. But in the end, EVE didn't appeal to them for whatever reason. I suspect it was because of the idea of building a social identity around.... what? Your Thrasher flying from here to there? Your jockstrap KB, that only you really ever look at?)

Anyway, Eve has the char animations already built for WIS. And DUST already has on-planet environments built. A lot of the New Eden world is already built and ready for players to go into. The EVE Online systems and spaceships world is already extremely developed and constantly tuned, of course. If with a few game design decisions, CCP could create real incentives to go between EVE ships and WIS characters-- (and also DUST planetside guys)-- how addictive could that be?

TL;DR version: CCP has already done the hard tech development part. After that, it's just some game design things to put in. ("Mysterious Stranger in the corner of the bar"). ("Take the space elevator to the planet surface"). Could add dimensions to the game, and make it more than just a very clever shooter/ISK-gathering/higher-level shooting thing. With only a few design ideas needed.


CCP already had ideas for avatar gameplay during the "war on impossible" stage of Ambulation. Avatar gameplay was to be in EVE from the start as a part of the "Elite with friends" original inception of the game. So just 3 years after launch, EVE was already being developed in the avatar direction. Avatars were, or are, very important to Hilmar and his ideas on what VR could mean for mankind and the environment: don't build steel into a car and burn fuel, rather experience that as electrons on the move in VR for a fraction of the environmental cost.

Trying to explain how Ambulation became Incarnageddon 5 years later would require a book, and probably would be a depressing read.

EVE needed Incarna to succeed. Since then, EVE has been "reinvented" and CCP has evolved as a company, so now CCP is the best CCP ever and their development process for EVE is the best ever.

And yet EVE is only a fraction of the game it could have been with Incarna. And this fraction is slowly cannibalizing itself as players leave, new blood is turned away and development focuses on splitting the player base into niches within niches rather than expanding it into unexplored niches.

I said it back then and still think it. When someone in the future looks at why did EVE die, the failure of Incarna will be deemed the first nail in the coffin. Like a father eating his children, after Incarna CCP saved the present by sacrificing the future.

You or CCP can lie to yourselves as much as you want. Everything from the Rubicon Plan is aimed at providing content to a fraction of the current playerbase, with no appeal nor gateways for new players nor the players invested in the areas being backburned. Citadels mean literally sh*t to new players:

"See! Massive space stations! And we owe one!"
"Woahh! Can I meet you inside?"
"Huh... there's no interiors... only the outside as a background image for your screen..."
"WTF??? It's effin two thousand and effin sixteen dude! Mass Effect! Star Citizen! Elite Dangerous! in what year are you living??"
"Err... HTFU? Go back to WoW? This! Is! EVE!? And, have you seen my Capital Force Auxiliary?"

And then, Citadels are the most widely appealing feature in Rubicon! Everything else will be structures for specific uses by fractions of the population interested (or capable) to own a Citadel.

So CCP takes EVE players, removes non PvPrs, then takes PvPrs and remove soloers and small people not interested to settle anything nor anywhere, then they take away those who are afraid of wormholes and will never go to New Space, then take away those who can't be interested to use Specialyzed Structure A, B, C or D... Thus CCP ends up developing 80% of the new game content for 0.2% of the population.

And as Jester said, "etiher you buy it or not much will be coming your way".

All because CCP had to manage WiS as good as they managed WoD or DUST 514... Sad
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1594 - 2016-02-04 13:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


So CCP takes EVE players, removes non PvPrs, then takes PvPrs and remove soloers and small people not interested to settle anything nor anywhere, then they take away those who are afraid of wormholes and will never go to New Space, then take away those who can't be interested to use Specialyzed Structure A, B, C or D... Thus CCP ends up developing 80% of the new game content for 0.2% of the population.



The above post is almost everything I dislike about the WiS crowd rolled into one thing. The main theme is "CCP is against people who don't exclusivly pvp". Every time i read something like that I am almost always in game, shooting NPCs and wonder "WTF is this person going on about??". Somehow, you will never see much of this same poster in any of the actual PVE Sections.

It's not pve vs pvp.I'm PVE focused myself and have no feeling that CCP is somehow victimizing me. IMO CCP has spent too much time on PVE, and this can be seen by the fact that most of us who do PVE are doign the same PVE we had in the past, where as relatively few are using these newer PVE venues. ie despite people begging for 'co-op pve', people are still running pre-2006 missions, anomalies and explorations content more than incursions or ghost sites or burners or whatever else.

I find it ironic that the people who say "I want more new stuff" eventually end up just playing the same old stuff, it reminds me of how people rage quitted saying they were going to play SWG then Black prophecy, then SWTOR, then Star Trek Online then Elite Dangerous then (perhap soon) SC or No man's sky ....but end up right back in EVE because their preferences don't match their rhetoric...

I like the old stuff, which is why I'm not complaining about the fact that the 2 DED 10/10s I did last night were created before either of my grandchildren were born.



What actually happened in the past is that CCP learned the lesson that these other game makers and developers are learning (especially SC and Elite): You can't give everyone everything they want and still have a thing worth calling a game. You have to make choices. And any choice you make is going to turn off someone. EVE is a turn off to some people not because it's a bad game, but because it's a game that caters to certain mindsets. Not just pvp mindsets either, as the above poster is fond of saying, more EVE players don't even actively seek pvp.

That suggests to me that there are at least a few folks like me in EVE: people who don't care about avatars, who don't love pvp but don't hate it either, that love the thrill of "contested PVE" and who enjoy the minimalist nature of EVE Online. My opposition to Incarna like stuff has nothing do with not wating others to enjoy something, it has everything to do with not wanting the company that makes my favorite game fall into the trap of over-extending itself for the sake of people who claim to want WiS but (like the "Playstation Home" people) probably won't use it much even if it existed.

I think CCP learned that their original vision (of some kind of all encompassing, all immersing sci-fi universe) was competently unrealistic. Incarna taught CCP that the game's current more 'minimalist' approach was better. It's that approach that many of us like, as opposed to the "Star Citizen" vision of some complete space world that you can totally lose yourself in.

Some of us just want a good, engaging but not overbearing game (which is what EVE is), we don't necessarily need to find ourselves 'lost' in the experience, as we'd have to be while wearing some VR helmet while drinking imaginary booze in a fictional Jita bar. This is why I hope and pray Star Citizen is a smashing success (and/or Elite gets it's act together), so that the "I need more immersion" people will have something they like finally without needing to think CCP needs to devote resources to flipping EVE on it's ear to get it..
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#1595 - 2016-02-04 15:13:05 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Laken Starr wrote:
Explosions in space are fine. They've gotten more than enough development. Eve needs to look to what will draw new folks, not just keep the long term vets happy. And the #1 complaint I hear from friends (granted, mostly RPers) who've tried the game is the lack of a true avatar.


Um, I hate to break it to you and your friends, but EVE isn't every other MMO out there. Your ship is your avatar.

The space game is the developmental focus for a number of reasons, not the least of which was Incarna, but also because you're asking for something that would take from the development time of the spaceship game, which is what the majority of players are here for. This is advertised as a spaceship game, and I cannot understand why people come here demanding it 'adapt' to their needs when their needs are filled just fine by a thousand other games.

If you think 'explosions in space' is the only development that will suffer, think again. But I'm detecting some hyperbole on that one.

As I've said before, WiS would be fine if it 1. does not detract from development time of the spaceships game, and 2. we're not all forced to use it, meaning it would have to be its own game with its own client, not bloating my client with stuff that I will simply never ever use.


We all have different views. In my view my ships are not my avatar in EVE. My character is. Ships are just class or gear that my true avatar uses to achieve goals.

EVE also is hardly different from other mmo's here. You have avatar, you "dress up" avatar in gear (ships in case of EVE), upgrate gear with enchants (modules) and off you go pew pew. Only big difference is that you lose your gear when you lose. But even that is not unique to EVE. EVE was born in era where losing stuff when you die was OK to have in mmo. Also if you want to be really picky if EVE is truly advertised as spaceship game then why do I feel like I am controlling submarine?

People asking for new things because they want to experience something new. WiS is just one suggestion of that "something new". Many players share the wish of seeing WiS come true and some players like myself welcome it if it does and not lose their sleep if it does not.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#1596 - 2016-02-04 16:00:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

What actually happened in the past is that CCP learned the lesson that these other game makers and developers are learning (especially SC and Elite): You can't give everyone everything they want and still have a thing worth calling a game. You have to make choices. And any choice you make is going to turn off someone. EVE is a turn off to some people not because it's a bad game, but because it's a game that caters to certain mindsets. Not just pvp mindsets either, as the above poster is fond of saying, more EVE players don't even actively seek pvp.


What you say is correct: you can't have a cake and eat it ! But you're trying to apply this case to a scenario where you can bake multiple cakes. When Indah says "Let's have different flavoured cakes.", you say "we can't mix flavours, that would taste horrible" barring the possibility that each cake can have one flavour different from the other cakes.

I never played SWG (Star Wars Galaxies), but what I read about it says that the pre-NGE version allowed players to freely choose professions ranging from musicians / performers to combat specialists. Now I'm not going to compare apples and oranges, I'm just saying that on principle it is possible to have variety in a game (aka catering to different tastes) as long as the different components don't step on each others feet. Because if they do, it hurts. Your argument is basically saying that different components will necessarily step on each others feet.

In 2006 I held similar opinions as you Jenn, but mainly because the arguments in favour of ambulation were ridiculous imo. The proponents (both players and some CCP staff) argued and I shall paraphrase here with a slight comedic undertone:

- We have 95% male subscribers and only 5% female, yet the MMO market has on average a 50% female to male ratio. How do we tap into that market to increase overall subscriptions ? Well of course, women don't like to identify themselves with things such as starships. Ergo, we need to create avatars so that women can identify with a human character. This way more women will start playing EvE ... it will be awesome and soon we will have as many subscriptions as WoW !!!11!!1

I had to facepalm really hard at this logic.
1) This arguments totally failed to include that SciFi is generally a niche genre that also happens to be more popular with men than with women.
2) In 2006 EvE had active role-players that had no problem whatsoever with EvE for the 2.5 years of its existence. Neither of them even tried to identify themselves with their ship as their avatar. I think that they all identified with the character they had named, whose picture was forever looking the same way as it did when they first created him/her, and for whom some even created elaborate background stories. None of those role-players failed to understand that their avatar was sitting in a goo filled pod, which in turn was contained inside the spaceship they were currently looking at.
3) When was the last time anybody would not play a racing game because they couldn't identify with "the car being their avatar" ... seriously: facepalm, facepalm, facepalm.

-> so in essence: adding avatar gameplay to EvE would not magically attract players that are not interested in the space setting or who are to dumb to imagine their character sitting inside a pod inside a spaceship.

I was against ambulation because the arguments brought forward were simply stupid.

But then came the prototypes shown at Fanfest and the footage made by nVidia in cooperation with CCP demonstrating cloth and hair movement which was truely stunning at the time.
- We saw footage of a pod pilot being decanted from his pod in a separate room much like Neo in The Matrix after taking the red pill. Oh yes, the rage is still strong in me over CCP putting the pod straight into the ship hangar ... it's so wrong and not gritty and dark at all. Definately not what was shown at Fanfest.
- We saw footage of empty sockets in stations where players would be able to set up a shop after renting the socket. (rage)
- We saw exotic dancers moving around strip poles. Didn't happen ... (rage)
- We saw a game supposedly playable at the bar. It looked so cool, but never happened ... (rage, rage, rage)
- We were told that we'd get NPCs for hire, like bartenders for example which could be possibly set up to deliver specific dialog.
- We were told of meeting rooms for corporations / alliances. (ok, didn't care so much about that)

I bought into that vision for EvE. CCP made me change my opinion from contra ambulation to pro ambulation. Ambulation was renamed WiS and the specific expansion Incarna.

... and all we ******* got was
- 1 (one !) Captains Quarter that doesn't have a door between the place I'm supposed to feel at home and the ******* ship hangar, seriously ?
- The pod from which I'm supposed to emerge from all wet and scantily clothed in the middle of the ship hangar, wtf happened to decantation room ?
- a micro-transaction store that nobody asked for instead of player built items (ok, we can live with that). Except that the prices were all macro-transaction like. That the initial free AUR was just enough to buy one single item out of all available items ... and that item are boots which I can't see on the character portrait and are not available to male avatars and I can't pool or trade my AUR to maybe get something else instead ??? WTF ?
- Oh yeah the "greed is good" and "people would buy $1000 Jeans in RL" leaks

... and all of this happened at a time when other MMOs turned from subscription based to F2P microtransaction blood-letting devices. But EvE players didn't worry about a cash-shop in EvE because "EvE will stay subscription based. There are no plans for micro-transactions".

(oopsie, ran out of characters)

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#1597 - 2016-02-04 16:13:30 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:

(oopsie, ran out of characters)


(part 2)

Personally I just want to see the original design turn into reality. I don't care if CCP wants to use the UE4 engine and tie the WiS design into whatever the new "Dust51 4PC" Lol will be.

I didn't and don't care about the redesigned and canned version of WiS, that Torfi and his team worked on ... the one with picking up guns and explore remote abandoned stations. Because apparently "meaningful gameplay" only happens if I can pick up a gun (sigh, nay facepalm ... god my head hurts from facepalming).

I will stop here, allthough I could go on with plenty of good arguments why WiS as imagined initially would not mean the end of the world for EvE. I'm not saying it's a solution to any existing or perceived problem. I'm saying "It looks cool, make it happen !" Basically exactly the same argument as for ship skins, ship damage modelling, kill marks on hull ... the same argument that was also valid when the planet textures were redesigned several years ago ... the same argument used when ship hulls were redesigned (allthough I still think that the Trasher got literally butchered).

I support WiS (the original).

Ah, yeah ... I said I would stop. Cool

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1598 - 2016-02-04 16:19:25 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:


What you say is correct: you can't have a cake and eat it ! But you're trying to apply this case to a scenario where you can bake multiple cakes. When Indah says "Let's have different flavoured cakes.", you say "we can't mix flavours, that would taste horrible" barring the possibility that each cake can have one flavour different from the other cakes.



CCP baked different cakes. There were called Incarna, WoD and DUST (and they thought up other cakes, like atmospheric flight, EVA exploration and Legion). Those cakes fell a bit flat lol. one had it's ingredients sold before it ever got into an oven, one got half baked (It's a "one room" cake lol) and the last one is literally about to bite the DUST.

The one cake that didn't fall flat is called EVE. I don't think it's terribly outlandish to say to the Baker that you should keep doing the thing that works and leave the rest alone.

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#1599 - 2016-02-04 16:53:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jill Xelitras wrote:


What you say is correct: you can't have a cake and eat it ! But you're trying to apply this case to a scenario where you can bake multiple cakes. When Indah says "Let's have different flavoured cakes.", you say "we can't mix flavours, that would taste horrible" barring the possibility that each cake can have one flavour different from the other cakes.



CCP baked different cakes. There were called Incarna, WoD and DUST (and they thought up other cakes, like atmospheric flight, EVA exploration and Legion). Those cakes fell a bit flat lol. one had it's ingredients sold before it ever got into an oven, one got half baked (It's a "one room" cake lol) and the last one is literally about to bite the DUST.

The one cake that didn't fall flat is called EVE. I don't think it's terribly outlandish to say to the Baker that you should keep doing the thing that works and leave the rest alone.



You're ignoring my argument. Valkyrie, Gunjack, Dust are separate games and I'm not argueing for further integration with the EvE client. Again, I was against ambulation as the arguments presented in favour were highly illogical. Still we got more than just a new character creator. We got a human avatar, with exchangable clothing and a small room to walk up and down. It's the most feature incomplete side of EvE. What I want is iteration on this feature. It's here, it's not going away, let's add some functionality to it. Make it worthwhile, polish this part of the game. Oh, and industry needs some polish too. I am not the only one who gets tired of new features being again new ships and again new ships and again new ships ....

F new ships for a while please. I mean finish up caps and those new logistic ships (auxilliairy whatever), take your time to rebalance them after launch and then please, please, please revisit some things that haven't been touched for years, are broken or feature incomplete and are not ships.

EvE is not one cake ! EvE is a collection of bigger and smaller cakes which all should smell good and taste nice. WiS is part of that collection it looks so good, smells delicious but the taste ... oh god ... I think I have to throw up.

You feel me ? Or still obstinate on pretending all is well and everyone should be all smiles and giggles or gtfo.

Oh, and hugs ... I still like you Jenn.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1600 - 2016-02-04 18:17:45 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:
What I want is iteration on this feature.


That feature is dead.

Quote:

F new ships for a while please.


That's the thing that isn't dead.

Quote:

EvE is not one cake ! EvE is a collection of bigger and smaller cakes which all should smell good and taste nice. WiS is part of that collection it looks so good, smells delicious but the taste ... oh god ... I think I have to throw up.


The WiS that exist is a relic of a broken way of thinking. Not much different from COSMOS (or any other abandoned feature) when you get right down to it. I'd rather they not revisit it, not because the feature itself is a terrible idea (it is, it stands to detract from the main aspect of the game, which is putting spacecraft in space), but also because it feeds the unrealistic hopes of the dreamer types that CCP will (or even can) deliver the kind of all encompassing "Immersive Space Universe" that is at the heart of the whole thing.

They can't. They tried, they failed.I love CCP, but they've done one thing right and that's EVE (the flying in space part). Everything else they've tried failed. Like I said earlier, it's not a pvp vs pve thing, it's more a "I like EVE pretty much how it's built now" side vs a "EVE would be so wonderful if it were a more immersive experience" side. I think CCPs history has shown that they can deliver a good niche game, but not a good 'super immersive' experience.



Gonna attempt another food anaology here lol . CCP is like a person who can make one hell-fire lovely Hamburger but screws up every other dish. The WiS crowd is composed of people who don't much like hamburger (or like hamburger some but think it could be better) and keeps asking CCP to fry up some chicken....while ignoring the charred carcases of 12 years worth of burned to a crisp chicken parts lol.

Good thing is, that a new KFC (Star Citizen) is opening up down the street in about 5 more years (lol) so you'll get your yard-bird fix then.... Maybe Big smile

Quote:

You feel me ? Or still obstinate on pretending all is well and everyone should be all smiles and giggles or gtfo.

Oh, and hugs ... I still like you Jenn.


Pretending? Who exactly is pretending? All is well for me and I'd hazard to say people like me. We have this niche game where the developers are focusing on that which we think is important (space ships and flying in space) while ingoring the fantasy stuff the WiS people want.

They may even be making a 'leg based' stand alone PC shooter game , which ideally would satisfy the desire of some to walk around New Eden a bit. And as long as they keep that sort of thing where it belongs outside of EVE Online, I'll keep being happy about it.