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A question regarding the privacy of EVE-mail.

First post
Author
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-02-14 16:17:29 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Is a "pretty common knowledge" which I ignored until just 20 minutes ago, after playing the game for most of 6 years

yes, even i knew that and im hammered most of the time
So tempted to indulge in a stereotype Twisted

@OP You agree to it when you "sign" the EULA and again when you create a full API.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.

Orlacc
#22 - 2015-02-14 16:38:57 UTC
EULA. Read it so you don't "assume" things.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#23 - 2015-02-14 16:43:23 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
What bothers me is not that "my" API gives "my" information but that "their" API will give out "my" information too, and I have not been warned of that before using the evemail service.

I'm not much of a fan of it.

Sure, over time I have discussed personal matters with friends in EVE, I often speak of family or personal goings-on in the forums threads I hang out in, and in mails I often go deeper into it with friends I trust. Like my dad's recent illness or troubles at work.

RL stuff aside, as an RP'er it's also not unusual for me to send or receive mails of a.... err, personal nature Lol

Personal to my character, that is.

I've had comments from leadership in prior corps about the contents of my inbox lmao, and as I mentioned in my corp's channel just recently in fact, if a complete non-RPer looked into my inbox they would prolly freak the **** out. Big smile

So yeah, these days I never give full API access. You'll get my character details, wallet and contacts but that's about it.


Oh, but the issue is not my API. It's that anyone who exchanged mails with you, will get your emails along with his if he gives full API.

The inbox should not be shared. And in any decent company, quoted mails would be censored before delivering them through API. My outgoing mail regarded as your incoming mail is nobody's business. You can not share it and certanly CCP can't make a shoddy work that forces you to share your inbox without warning everyone writing to you.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#24 - 2015-02-14 16:48:11 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Is a "pretty common knowledge" which I ignored until just 20 minutes ago, after playing the game for most of 6 years

yes, even i knew that and im hammered most of the time
So tempted to indulge in a stereotype Twisted

@OP You agree to it when you "sign" the EULA and again when you create a full API.



Take a stop and breathe deeply. I never created a full API. But anyone who received my mail and created one, shared my mail without my acknowledgement becasue I didn't knew that such thing would happen.

If I share my mail, that's my business. If CCP forces you and me to share my mail with your potential employers, that's a serious deal for me.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#25 - 2015-02-14 16:54:29 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Oh, but the issue is not my API. It's that anyone who exchanged mails with you, will get your emails along with his if he gives full API.

Yeah I see what you mean there.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The inbox should not be shared.

Totally agree. But it is what it is, and people in this game are paranoid on a unprecedented scale. They actually want to read peoples personal mails to feel secure and if they could somehow even look into your RL living room I'm sure they prolly would also.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-02-14 16:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Take a stop and breathe deeply. I never created a full API. But anyone who received my mail and created one, shared my mail without my acknowledgement becasue I didn't knew that such thing would happen.

If I share my mail, that's my business. If CCP forces you and me to share my mail with your potential employers, that's a serious deal for me.

The issue is that you didn't read the EULA.

EULA wrote:
A. Communications

Except for certain information in your Account (discussed below), all transmissions by you to the System are not private. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms.


EULA wrote:
You hereby irrevocably and without additional consideration beyond the rights granted to you herein, assign to CCP any and all right, title and interest you have, including copyrights, in or to any and all information you exchange, transmit or upload to the System or while playing the Game, including without limitation all files, data and information comprising or manifesting corporations, groups, titles, characters and other attributes of your Account, together with all objects and items acquired or developed by, or delivered by or to characters, in your Account.


The solutions are simple, don't post things in chat, or send evemails, that contain something you don't want made public, or if you feel really strongly about it stop playing Eve.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.

Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#27 - 2015-02-14 16:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
One important thing to note in this discussion is that in American law and cultural coxtext sharing private communication without consent from BOTH involved parties is forbidden.

HOWEVER, In Europe, probably including Iceland, the recipient of a message can share and publish it however he wants and with whoever he wants no matter where and from whom the message comes from. The sender has no right to argue about it, unless an NDA has been mutually agreed upon well beforehand. I am pretty sure this feels just as natural to CCP as it does to me, even if it might make Americans uncomfortable.

Even without an EULA, european players would be well within their rights to share mails coming from you with their corp mates or recruiters.

So, if you want to be sure no one ever publishes your mails, never send any messages to Europe ever.
M'pact
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-02-14 17:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: M'pact
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
One important thing to note in this discussion is that in American law and cultural coxtext sharing private communication without consent from BOTH involved parties is forbidden.

...and those who are paranoid about such things should have read the EULA. They voluntarily gave away any and all right to privacy when they agreed to it.

Like every single MMO out there, anything you type is no longer private. That includes regular chat, "private" chat, and in-game mail.

This here's EVE. Just like when you press undock, you should consider your ship already dead ... when you press Enter/Send, you should consider the words you typed already public.

And for the record, I'm an American.

When I finally do make an impact on this universe, it will reverberate across the entirety of it, and no one will be able to truthfully claim they don't know me. - -

Until then, I'll just sit quietly over here, minding my own business...

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-02-14 17:09:28 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Let's say that for some reason, I trust someone and evemail him some personal data, and that someone joins a corporation unaware of what a full API does mean to any personal data being shared through CCP's services...
I guess you probably shouldn't trust people that are so careless in the first place.

Generally speaking, I trust smart jerks much more than nice fools. But I don't provide sensitive info to either.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-02-14 17:13:51 UTC
EVEMail isn't EMail. Don't use it for personal thing.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#31 - 2015-02-14 17:22:11 UTC
M'pact wrote:
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
One important thing to note in this discussion is that in American law and cultural coxtext sharing private communication without consent from BOTH involved parties is forbidden.

...and those who are paranoid about such things should have read the EULA. They voluntarily gave away any and all right to privacy when they agreed to it.

Like every single MMO out there, anything you type is no longer private. That includes regular chat, "private" chat, and in-game mail.

This here's EVE. Just like when you press undock, you should consider your ship already dead ... when you press Enter/Send, you should consider the words you typed already public.

And for the record, I'm an American.

I am European. I probably wrote that in a bit confusing way.

The point of my message was not in reminding people about american law, but about the fact that here in europe the law is completely different and americans have no business arguing about OUR liberty. Only way to extend american law to my home would be to send a conquering army.

It is extremely amusing when american corporations and lawyers send email to european citizens with pompous warnings about how they will be sued to hell and back if the contents of the mail are published. Naturally, mail like that will be published with much ridicule and there is nothing they can legally do about it.

The same issue comes up often in international communities on the internets, and is always amusing. Just look at how many people try to internet lawyer about evemails published on minerbumping.com for example.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#32 - 2015-02-14 17:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Erica Dusette
Sniper Smith wrote:
EVEMail isn't EMail. Don't use it for personal thing.

You could say the same about TS, it's not a secure phone line yet corpies talk about personal stuff on there all the time and can (and are) often recorded while doing so.

Ideals are one thing, reality is another, and in every MMO people discuss and share personal stuff via mails, ingame chats, TS, you name it - all the time. The gaming company knows this and has a responsibility to protect their users privacy as best as possible in an environment that is not an ideal world. So when I discovered that here a way is actually provided by the company to breach that privacy it doesn't really sit well with me - especially when we see silly things like access for wormhole mappers API being restricted by CCP to help prevent people from being ganked while farming. Roll

I agree with the OP that mail access from API is wrong, but I deal with it personally.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-02-14 17:34:23 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
The gaming company knows this and has a responsibility to protect their users privacy as best as possible in an environment that is not an ideal world.
I disagree.

At most they could have the courtesy to remind people that in-game communication is not private, since apparently people make the mistake to assume otherwise.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#34 - 2015-02-14 17:44:54 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
The gaming company knows this and has a responsibility to protect their users privacy as best as possible in an environment that is not an ideal world.
I disagree.

At most they could have the courtesy to remind people that in-game communication is not private, since apparently people make the mistake to assume otherwise.

Sure, I mean at the end of the day there's nothing stopping me from screenshoting a mail and sending it to a thousand people, or even just forwarding it.

But for the company themselves to provide an actual service to facilitate that is pretty damning, IMO. Just my personal opinion, having played a ton of games like most people, and worked in at least one, giving people that access is rather unprecedented and I can fully empathize with some people's discord with it.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

vccv
#35 - 2015-02-14 17:53:23 UTC
Yea, nobody needs a full api, especially the little half arse corps with only 4-7 people ever on at the same time. Tell them to stuff it. Be careful with the url parties as well.. your corp mates will hax your pc. Common knowledge learned the hard way, you arent alone in that boat. CCP has no responsibility either. Just dont give it out, and make a new one if you did. As for fellow pilots with nefarious intentions outside of game.. label them as isis recruiters and turn them in on ic3 if you find their scripts and wares on your box lol. A new api takes a few min to make, a new ssd is cheap too. Good luck!
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#36 - 2015-02-14 17:55:16 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Is a "pretty common knowledge" which I ignored until just 20 minutes ago, after playing the game for most of 6 years

yes, even i knew that and im hammered most of the time
So tempted to indulge in a stereotype Twisted

@OP You agree to it when you "sign" the EULA and again when you create a full API.


Tis grand, I do make something of an effort to live up to it Blink
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-02-14 17:59:11 UTC
i`m just eating popcorn, move on please.....
Candi LeMew
Division 13
#38 - 2015-02-14 18:16:37 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
i`m just eating popcorn, move on please.....

Wow, popcorn is so YC 116.

Haven't you heard now days it's all about the Tacos.

🍌

Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...

"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2015-02-14 18:26:12 UTC
How the hell is there even an arguement about this?

"Guys it gets cold and rains a lot in winter and I'm pretty mad about that! Ima sue the government."

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-02-14 18:47:49 UTC
Jesus Christ.

People think way too highly of their personal information. Tip: No one cares about your life.

Stop worrying about insignificant things and enjoy the game.

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon