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Nerfs, and the coming of the second shard

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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#281 - 2015-02-12 16:04:53 UTC
A lot of hurt in this thread.... and much foaming of the mouth. This does not get us anywhere.

As for these foaming at the mouth comments about social corps. READ THE MINUTES. You are just making it up on what you think its going to be. And your wrong.

Over all there seems to be a lot of hurt over stuff not staying the same. I mean where on that graph is the ruling on hyperdunking? Or do you just have an axe to grind.

Personally i have ganked. I have been ganked. I spend time in low, null, WH space and highsec. We even tried making money ganking. It is no where near as good as a C4 with a C3 static. But can be profitable all the same.

I want balance. A balance between risk and reward. Ganking shouldn't be too easy. That is stupid. Highsec shouldn't be too safe. I don't really think NPC corps are great, but my Freighter alt is in one because its stupid not to be. Wardec mechanics defo need some work. Don't think many people disagree.

Change to what? not back to the older ways. But perhaps to a better way. How about some kind of purchasable kill-right on an single person? Could be that its not transferable, or that it only activates a limited engagement timer. Could make bounty hunting a thing. I really don't know. But at the same time we don't want have full on grieffing being a thing. Balance.

But silly things like ventures as a nurf to gankers... Seriously? You lose credibility with that kind of statement. What putting a 2DPS gun on a rookie ship also a nurf to highsec ganks? Get real.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#282 - 2015-02-12 16:06:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.


good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards


such as?



incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing,

L5 carrier blitzing received a huge buff with the limit to how far others can jump.


L5 carrier blitzing reqires a capital ship to make slightly more than you could make using a FRIGATE sized ship blitzing burners in high sec. Low sec burner blitzing is good, till you get stuffed by a sebo Thrasher gate camp.

And see my previous post about incursions. Low and null do NOT pay better than high sec incursions because of the ships used. The existence of CONCORD is what makes high sec incursions as profitable as they are. My ISN or TVP shiney fleet Vindicators cost 5 bil and I'd never use them outside high sec.



burners are also in low sec.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#283 - 2015-02-12 16:11:46 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:

Over all there seems to be a lot of hurt over stuff not staying the same. I mean where on that graph is the ruling on hyperdunking?

Regardless of your view on the OP, CCP not nerfing something doesn't count as a buff you know What?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#284 - 2015-02-12 16:21:20 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:

Over all there seems to be a lot of hurt over stuff not staying the same. I mean where on that graph is the ruling on hyperdunking?

Regardless of your view on the OP, CCP not nerfing something doesn't count as a buff you know What?


While your statement is true, the introduction of the bowhead could be seen as an unintended buff to ganking.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#285 - 2015-02-12 16:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
More freighters died over the past year in hisec then in any prior year in eve's history. Just a simple fact, don't have any skin in this "debate" myself - never suicide ganked or been ganked.

Seems like there's a lot of persecution complex in this thread. "I'm being oppressed!" and so forth... Roll
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#286 - 2015-02-12 16:25:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:



incursions


They dont get run in null anywhere near to the scale and efficiency as in highsec. Most are abandoned.

Lady Rift wrote:

mission blitzing


Missions don't exist in the vast bulk of null.
Lady Rift wrote:

burner mission blitzing,


cant be blitzed due to things such as Sebo sabers and nasty little things called bubbles.
Lady Rift wrote:

L5 carrier blitzing received a huge buff with the limit to how far others can jump.


They die to local dreads rather than PL's.


High sec is vulnerable to ganks. I just watched an incursion go from 0% to poped in less than a day in dek. could of farmed that a little more with the vindi's and expensive ships that where used to run it.

They do exist. Just because its not in the area you are living in doesn't mean they don't. its like saying SOE agents don't exist in the vast bulk of high sec. while ignoring that they do.

can be blitzed, low doesn't have bubbles they are only an issue in null.

get friendly with your locals or pay more attention to local. At worse mjd ravens can run them quickly enough.



admiral root
Red Galaxy
#287 - 2015-02-12 16:37:04 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
I just watched an incursion go from 0% to poped in less than a day in dek.


They got the pontif involved, huh? If an incursion is steamrolled in sov nullsec it's because they're a pain in the ass. If it's in a less-used constellation it's more likely to fester for a week while everyone avoids it.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#288 - 2015-02-12 16:40:57 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
I just watched an incursion go from 0% to poped in less than a day in dek.


They got the pontif involved, huh? If an incursion is steamrolled in sov nullsec it's because they're a pain in the ass. If it's in a less-used constellation it's more likely to fester for a week while everyone avoids it.


It will probably happen more now that the jump range is less than it used to be but you won't see farming like in high sec.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#289 - 2015-02-12 16:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Lady Rift wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


L5 carrier blitzing reqires a capital ship to make slightly more than you could make using a FRIGATE sized ship blitzing burners in high sec. Low sec burner blitzing is good, till you get stuffed by a sebo Thrasher gate camp.

And see my previous post about incursions. Low and null do NOT pay better than high sec incursions because of the ships used. The existence of CONCORD is what makes high sec incursions as profitable as they are. My ISN or TVP shiney fleet Vindicators cost 5 bil and I'd never use them outside high sec.



burners are also in low sec.


You don't say...
Josef Djugashvilis
#290 - 2015-02-12 16:45:40 UTC
Man, I just love it when folk claim that their pet nerf - favoured buff is 'for the good of the game'

This is not a signature.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#291 - 2015-02-12 16:49:02 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
I just watched an incursion go from 0% to poped in less than a day in dek.


They got the pontif involved, huh? If an incursion is steamrolled in sov nullsec it's because they're a pain in the ass. If it's in a less-used constellation it's more likely to fester for a week while everyone avoids it.


It will probably happen more now that the jump range is less than it used to be but you won't see farming like in high sec.
farming is the key word here

If you're looking for some enjoyment or thrill in your PVE, do it out of highsec and have fun.

But if you're min/maxing ISK/hour to get ISK to do other stuff (e.g. PVP), it will always be hard to beat 'safe' PVE (whether it's highsec or well-protected null or wh space, or wherever future buffs/nerfs will point us towards).


My personal experience: I got into faction warfare because PVP+ISK to fund it.

18 months later, I still enjoy the PVP side, but I make ISK elsewhere (in a way I also find fun, by the way, but it's also hugely more rewarding than FW LP, which is already not bad...).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#292 - 2015-02-12 16:51:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Lady Rift wrote:


High sec is vulnerable to ganks. I just watched an incursion go from 0% to poped in less than a day in dek. could of farmed that a little more with the vindi's and expensive ships that where used to run it.


You don't use expensive ships to run a null incursion, you blob it with everything you got to kill it to be free of the cyno jamming effect. You don't make any isk off it because you use so many people. Posting about the recent incursion in goon space just proves that you aren't familiar with what goes on outside of high sec.

And high sec ganks? you mean those things that only rarely happen and that instigate a CONCORD response?

Quote:

They do exist. Just because its not in the area you are living in doesn't mean they don't. its like saying SOE agents don't exist in the vast bulk of high sec. while ignoring that they do.


Useless rationalizing. Null Sec incursions are rare (as in its rare you will see on come to space you can reasonable get to), and even when they aren't they aren't worth running because doing them with normal ships generates less isk per hour than regular ratting and no one keeps 5 bil isk vindis lying around to get good returns from incursions that rarely happen in your space.

Quote:

can be blitzed, low doesn't have bubbles they are only an issue in null.

get friendly with your locals or pay more attention to local. At worse mjd ravens can run them quickly enough.





Why do any of that when you can make a quarter bil an hour in high sec WITH A FRIGATE sized ship and good standings to a corp with a good lp store? That's the entire point.

This discussion prove my point, High sec people aren't interested in any truth that threatens their video game comfort.



Fixed quoting. ISD Ezwal.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#293 - 2015-02-12 16:53:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:

Over all there seems to be a lot of hurt over stuff not staying the same. I mean where on that graph is the ruling on hyperdunking?

Regardless of your view on the OP, CCP not nerfing something doesn't count as a buff you know What?


While your statement is true, the introduction of the bowhead could be seen as an unintended buff to ganking.


I'll be honest, I still haven't quite figured the Bowhead out (isn't it tougher than a pimp mission boat being manually driven through space, I honestly don't know?), I'm still trying to figure out whether the fatigue-reduction trait makes it a better suitcase for running down jump-bridge pipes with.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#294 - 2015-02-12 16:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Man, I just love it when folk claim that their pet nerf - favoured buff is 'for the good of the game'


I love it when people selfishly deny the truth of a situation because that truth threatens there comfort. If you can't even tell the truth in a video game forum, where can you?
UberFly
Metallurgy Incorporated
#295 - 2015-02-12 17:18:33 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
My concern is the number of currently targettable players who, through this change, will no longer be. I am talking about members of highsec corps, without POS's, but with enough pride (don't discount it, pride is a big reason for otherwise irrational choices) or self-respect in their name/identity, that they currently would not disband under a wardec. Every single one of these corps has no sensible reason not to transform themselves in to a social corp, to retain the feature they want (name and identity), but with the added safety as a freebie. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is an insignificantly small demographic, but maybe it isn't, and maybe this change is going to significantly reduce the amount of viable targets in Highsec for a corp that fights its wars there.

You mean, no sensible reason beyond
- avoiding the 11% tax
- having corp hangers
- having offices

those "sensible reasons?
UberFly
Metallurgy Incorporated
#296 - 2015-02-12 17:25:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I will never understand the thinking behind this kind of perspective. ...

You can understand it perfectly, but it doesn't fit with what you want to do, and therefore you whine about it. which, oddly enough, is exactly what you claim, and complain about, the other side doing.
Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Shadow Cartel
#297 - 2015-02-12 17:34:53 UTC
High Sec is more dangerous now than it was 7 years ago when I started playing.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#298 - 2015-02-12 17:39:57 UTC
UberFly wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I will never understand the thinking behind this kind of perspective. ...

You can understand it perfectly, but it doesn't fit with what you want to do, and therefore you whine about it. which, oddly enough, is exactly what you claim, and complain about, the other side doing.


And this is simply a lie.

I don't understand how someone can be in a game with one part that has insta spawning NPC police and antoher part that does not and somehow magically claim that the part where anyone can shoot you with no consequence is somehow 'safer'. The truth is that it's just a self serving lie high sec people tell themselves to reinforce their self image.

Saying high sec is less safe than null is like saying Martha's Vineyard is less safe than Somalia because in Martha's Vineyard a rich dude might choke on some cocktail shrimp and die but Somalis can't afford cocktail shrimp so their chance of shrimp-death is lower.

No high sec poster proclaiming that 'null is safer than high sec' has ever offered any proof. I offer you the chance to do so now....



....Ok, , now....



How about NOW.....



,,,,Still waiting....
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#299 - 2015-02-12 17:41:11 UTC
Nikodiemus wrote:
High Sec is more dangerous now than it was 7 years ago when I started playing.


So, somehow the place we are talking about is less safe now, despite crime watch, safeties, nerfed can flipping and the rest.

Go ahead, show your proof as well, i'll wait on both you posters.
UberFly
Metallurgy Incorporated
#300 - 2015-02-12 17:41:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I love it when people selfishly deny the truth of a situation because that truth threatens there comfort. If you can't even tell the truth in a video game forum, where can you?

You mean like you've been doing with your hundreds of posts bitching about how everything is terrible and eve is dying? yeah, thought not.