EVE General Discussion

im a little sad that player made content is being stifled.

and that veers is getting what he wants.

why cant i get what i want?

P.S. we have never met, but feyd your gameplay is expert....your leadership.....expert. and for me, you get a gold star for the incoming nerfs...

because when a player changes the game....it proves that we the players are in control of everything.

enjoy your hiatus. everyone needs a little time off.

CCP encourage pvpers to become smarter and employ more deceptive tactics to successfully hunt our prey, yet they seemgly do nothing to encourage our prey to be more deceptive and smarter. If I were my prey, I would be insulted at CCP thinking I am not capable of avoiding capture through my own means.

I find it disturbing to see some of these changes that have taken place up till now. I'm not one to demand that my game style and preferred activities be made priority, and I certainly hope this isn't how this comes across.

Eve has been a game where you can be the villain and do things that aren't normally socially acceptable. I would venture to guess that what drew each of us to the game was not some blog or article about how cool mining asteroids were. I believe that what drew us to play this game is how your gameplay can have an impact on individuals. The Butterfly Effect and Causality videos are what got me lured in. I then started reading blogs and stories of all the spying, thefts, and carnage people were participating in...

Without risk and the motivation for someone to protect himself and his assets, eve is well on its way to being another generic MMO that might appeal to the niche category of sci-fi lovers. I think there are good examples of how things can be a little unfair and non-production to gameplay on both sides of the fense. I want carebears to take risks so they undock during war decs and allow me to make them explode.

There are arguments on both sides about risk-free activities and the risk vs reward ratio, but I'm not here to argue these points. I don't agree with giving people the chance to do something absolutely risk free. It isn't in the spirit of eve, and it definitely hurts multiple facets of the game that are enjoyed by many.

Feyd's last blog entry describes his experience of leaving hisec to join Black Legion. He talks about the feeling of being a part of something that is bigger than himself. I find that sad that he had to leave hisec to find that. I know that sov warfare and the feeling of contributing to your side can bring a sense of pride, but you should be able to play in all areas of the game and feel that you are making waves that others can feel the effects from.

I don't know what the answers are to balance things. I just know that taking the risk out of the game is not it. We all knew what we were signing up for when we created our accounts. Please don't cry about having to take risks in order to achieve great reward.

Now please join me in chanting, "Hands up, don't nerf!"

what a load of poppy ****. you want to log in and never have anyone bother you, never a worry, nothing but warp to point A and F1 F2 F3 F4 tab out (if ya don't have dual screens) and watch a movie or surf the web.

this is not how EVE is supposed to be played.

i can tell you this, i've been a CEO since day one, you will not last pissing time if that's how you play EVE. you will be ganked or you'll burn out and be calling EVE spreadsheets online within 2 years.

I honestly can't believe half of the crap i'm reading here.

you have no idea what you're talking about. don't gank too much or CCP will gank the players,, total and utter nonsense.

Not only that, who made half these people representatives?

I'm sick of reading statements that contain US and WE when these clowns speak for themselves.

i now ask that you sit and say to yourself the following and this is for the players and CCP.

I must HTFU, If i refuse to HTFU EVE will chew me up and spit me out, my colleagues in EVE must HTFU.
if they refuse to HTFU EVE will chew them up and spit them out. EVE is forever,,,,, I MUST HTFU!


I'm all for new players and keeping them in the game, but not at the expense of it making EVE not EVE.

I've given you a like because I can appreciate a pure , unadulterated rant even when im drunk.

Wrong. There have been many nerfs made because CCP listened to the wrong people. The barge buff for example weren't needed because the people getting killed were refusing to fit a tank and were making themselves profitable to gank. The freighter changes were entirely unneeded.

The matter that in my opinion we should discuss is not whether something is good or bad. CCP develop EVE Online the way they see fit, as does every other company that exists. it's a matter of which way they want to develop it, and which way are they actually developing it.

What I see as the reason for all the criticism against the changes to risk in hisec is what CCP members have said in the past, which I will quote again: EVE was(and I say was because I'm unsure if this is still the direction they take EVE towards) a game where violence and evil is encouraged, a dark and hostile universe.

This thread is part of a discussion related to that. Is EVE becoming less hostile? is EVE changing its course? Is the hostile environment that allows great amounts of violence slowly going away(or, more specifically, in certain parts of it)?
This is what we are talking about. And some people don't want EVE Online to be more friendly because they remember that EVE was to be an evil monster that simply says, "harden up or get the fluff out".

Just trying to put things in perspective for those who got it wrong.

I realize that this is mostly a discussion on the game's vision and core philosophy, so to speak.

I too came to EVE (in mid 2013) attracted by the dark side, so I can sympathize.


But on more practical terms, I fail to see the problem.


Wanna kill people that know how to pilot? Go to lowsec, wormholes or nullsec.

Enjoy hunting clueless pilots? Go anywhere, including highsec. I see no shortage of people still having ganking fun in highsec. It's also a very newbie-friendly (and alt-friendly!) activity (blaster catalyst or insta-lock trasher are super-quick trains).


To Jenn (and others) pointing out that highsec ISK-making is too easy. Maybe, but remember it's still a competitive activity, it's still PVP (without explosions).

So it's still very EVE to me.


Incursion running, market trading, manufacturing, even mining are fiercely competitive activities. Resources are limited, players 'fight' over them through efficiency, time dedication, multiple accounts etc. (only exception I can think of to the 'limited resource rule' are direct ISK payouts from regular missions).

They have fun, if that's they're cup of tea, and we all reap the benefits (lower prices for LP store items, meta items, manufactured items including T2 after the Crius-a-river semplification, etc. etc.).


Working as intended, IMHO. As long as all EVE activities are inherently competitive, I see no biggie in less highsec PVP explosions.

And let's not forget the worst thing to ever happen to highsec hilarity and comedy:

The farking safety. I will be the first to admit to being one of the hilarious ones. I was webbing a corpmate in a freighter through highsec in my rapier. We're zipping right along when suddenly CONCORD! Hundreds of them. I died in a glorious wreck of fire, and then, because I was so stunned at what had happened, some opportunistic douche nozzle capped my pod as well.

Turned out, looking back at logs and talking to my corpie, I had targeted the wrong freighter, and when I hit the webs - well, you can guess the rest. Now a days, if you have the safety set, you can't do this - the system flat won't let you. And I think that's bad.

The first point is a bit of an oversimplification though. It sounds like you link a particular playstyle with the reason people leave the game, or are saying this is what CCP says and they view it as a bad thing. Whenever I've read any comment from CCP they are fine with people leaving the game if the game is not suited to them. There are players that mission almost or totally exclusively and play for years, the same way there are vets that PVP and get still get tired and leave. Isn't that what the SOV and jump changes were about? PVP aspects of the game are hardly perfect in and of themselves.

Those players seem to be the type that need a game to tell them what to do and can't function in a setting where you set your own goals and don't have a pop up telling you what carrot you should chase next, so they stick with what is familiar, and because it is familiar get bored without experiencing other aspects of the game. Sure. But they missioning is only a fraction of what you can PVE wise, so they haven't even explored that aspect; PVP isn't some magic bullet. If anything fostering player interaction, and not just negative interaction, is the key to retaining players. Even missions, while boring, are better with a group of people. An old corp used to run 4's in a fleet of destroyers with everybody on comm's. Great fun. Positive experiences playing with others helps with player retention, what you're doing is often immaterial and highly secondary.

Most MMO's plan around the average player maybe sticking around two years or so. You'll never be able to please everybody, but you shouldn't go out your way to displease or vilify a mode of play in a game that is supposed to be so open in terms of what you can do.

The second point is more than a little divorced from reality since there are safer areas of the game than High Sec to make a lot more ISK than High Sec for a lot less risk. I was in a WH about 2 months after playing in a WH corp making more ISK than I new what to do with for virtually no effort and no risk. You occasionally had invaders but it was (not sure about now) easy to repel them with only a handful of guys, or get safe if you couldn't. Null is riskier? When the residents can rat in carriers and run anoms in afktars in peace because there are allies and blues for days surrounding them? When they have so much isk and free time they can only thin of using it to go back to high or low sec and make ALT corps to leverage their assets against targets unwilling or unable to effectively fight back? But High Sec is the only place with a risk/reward risk aversion issue? I don't buy it. Just sounds like the usual propaganda to me.

Gatecamps on every major route to every major tradehub. Gankers, Ninja Looters, Mercs, AWOXERS, attracted to the area like moths to the flame BECAUSE of a lot players of live there? And they have it TOO easy? Thankfully at least CCP has better perspective given the changes they are making.