EVE General Discussion

No, I only argue where the evidence supports that argument.

I don't know why the majority of players fall into PvE personally. It's not what I do and I haven't asked others myself. They may well come to Eve for the PvE (and not surprisingly be very disappointed). There's just not the data in that presentation to support that view.

CCP seem to think it has more to do with rich experiences over isolated play and they've drawn that conclusion from the data they've analysed.

Whether it is PvE or PvP, it all has the potential to be a rich experience, since the experience is not about the actual task in a lot of cases, but about interaction, in CCPs conclusion.

I recently ran my first incursion sites in nullsec and being in a fleet for PvE was just as engaging as being in a fleet for PvP. The shooting of red crosses was dull, but the F1 isn't what makes a fleet engaging for me either. It's the group activity involved in it. It's the same when I run combat sites. It's not only quicker (which is a blessing), but also more engaging to run the sites with other people. But that's just me. I don't expect that is necessarily representative of everybody and it's clearly not what some people want. Each to their own. So it's difficult to extrapolate limited sets, or unrelated sets into some other purpose. The arguments are just not very strong.

Lucas analogy is more accurate and fine. CCP offers many different things in EVE, and all players are welcome to enjoy the parts they do(after all, they pay the same as everyone else). You acknowledge that CCP needs to improve on content, and they should, like Lucas suggested. It is the difference between sandbox and litter box. You want a litter box, other players want a beach sand box. Don't bring up Incarna like you understand what that was about.

I've given you the tools you need to look at the data, so why don't you do your own analysis if mine is so flawed.
I believe the way I pulled the data was the fairest. ISK killed as a winning metric and eliminating wars with zero activity. In a balanced system I'd expect to see a roughly 50/50 split with that much data. It wasn't even close (90/10).

Do you at agree with my suggestion that wardec mechanic as they currently stand encourage players to go after the easier targets, the ones with lots of juicy ships and little combat ability rather than picking a fight with a group ready and willing to fight back in highsec?

Hey man, I didn't kill it. I just found it here.

This thread still?

Why do people stay in NPC corps? Caiuse this is Eve, and in Eve, trolling your angst is PvP for some people.




Don't ask...

Oh well, at least I'll have something to sniff to help make all of this oooookaayy.

A crappy corp may be better than no corp, but from a new player perspective they are still terrible. Eve deserves to be shown to new players at its best, and that is not grinding away in highsec for a CEO taxing 50% of your income and giving you nothing in return. I have no problem with veteran players deciding to hang out in a do-everything/do-nothing corp in highsec, or realizing that the NPC corp is a better place for them as they have figured out what they like and are indeed subscribing, but new players deserve better or many of them will quit.

Wardecs weed out these fail corps just like highsec-awoxing used to. The solution isn't to continue to turn player corps into de facto invulnerable NPC corps by nerfing wardecs, but rather to buff player corps to make them desirable and worth being in so players want to defend them. This would foster conflict and engagement with the game. Are there some tweaks that could make wardecs less lopsided? I am sure there are, but the game is specifically designed so that players and corps will be routinely destroyed. It is not a bad thing that every corp does not make it and so wardecs should not be neutered to try to make every corp succeed "for the newbies". A corporation is something players should rally around and fight for in pursuit of a common goal and having meaning and value, not just be a glorified chat channel.

As for your assertion that 1000 pilot new corp is "not possible" this is exactly what Brave (AKA Brave Newbies Inc) did. They focused on grabbing a bunch of new players and set out to make a name for their corporation with little experience and low SP characters. This is completely possible under the current wardec mechanic. Further there are hundreds of smaller, high-quality highsec corporations that deal with wardecs and thrive everyday. Just because everyone does not succeed does not mean it is not possible.

Why does the chicken cross the road?

It's hard to say. It probably doesn't even know what a road is and it probably can't even see what's going on on the other side either. And I doubt it can actually think about this long enough to weigh off the benefits and drawbacks of going over there.

Yep, and they are right. Even miners will tell you that mining is 'better' when done in a group where people are chatting on comms.

The real issue here has nothing to do with 'new players', 'playstyles', or 'retention'. NPC corps are refuges for weak willed and risk averse VETERAN players who (like all human beings) found an exploitable advantage (war dec immunity) and ran with it. The talk about PVE is a deflection, most of the posters talking about PVE aren't even PVE players and wouldn't know the difference between their ass and an Outuni spawn. It's just more "you want me to play your way" BS, as if anyone cares what they personally do.

I personally don't care, I shoot things that used to be Red Xs (bring back my fracking Red Xs btw pls and/or thanks) for fun so I can't criticize. The issue has never been about forcing people into player corps so they can be shot at, it's about disliking the fact that CCP caters to these gross advantage seekers (Veteran NPC corp hiders) to the detriment of the rest of the game, on the false beleif that if you protect people, they will stay and eventually branch out and do other things.

CCP needs to re-adopt the old school "sink or swim" mentality they had in the beginning when you started the game in space and at the mercy of any passing a-hole. Those were the times that bred the hearty "it's just pixels" type community members that went on to make this game great. It's obvious to everyone with 2 brain cells to rub together that this era of safety (in a video game) hasn't worked at all.

Actually, might was the wrong word.

There are definitely people that PvE because they want to. They enjoy that and great for them. I hope everyone enjoys what they do in the game whether it is PvE, pvp, or both.