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why do players stay in npc corps?

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Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1141 - 2015-05-29 22:09:47 UTC

Joe Risalo wrote:
Anyone here watch Gold Rush?


I love this show so much. My dad recorded season 5 for me while I was out of the country and I am catching up on it during breaks.

I love the kid, and the old fellow who needs subtitles. Such a good show..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1142 - 2015-05-29 22:21:33 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

Wow, when will you guys stop parroting that simplistic line. Correlations are used all the time to support hypotheses much more radical than "social interactions keep players in a social MMO game".

CCP has a massive dataset which they have mined backwards and forwards and are confident enough in there interpretation of the data to have CCP Rise stand up and present these findings to the world at Fanfest. You can put your head in the sand and call him incompetent or a liar, but that doesn't change the direction in which CCP is going to take this game.

Getting new players out of NPC corps and into player corps is now an important goal for CCP. I guess you are just going to have to deal with that.


Yes well I think CCP should keep giving CCP Rise the credit, so when the plans backfire, they know who to blame for all this.
Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#1143 - 2015-05-29 22:22:56 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:

Wow, when will you guys stop parroting that simplistic line. Correlations are used all the time to support hypotheses much more radical than "social interactions keep players in a social MMO game".

CCP has a massive dataset which they have mined backwards and forwards and are confident enough in there interpretation of the data to have CCP Rise stand up and present these findings to the world at Fanfest. You can put your head in the sand and call him incompetent or a liar, but that doesn't change the direction in which CCP is going to take this game.

Getting new players out of NPC corps and into player corps is now an important goal for CCP. I guess you are just going to have to deal with that.


Yes well I think CCP should keep giving CCP Rise the credit, so when the plans backfire, they know who to blame for all this.


Chances are it'll be the players. Specifically those who don't pvp in nullsec, and run mining ops out in highsec.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1144 - 2015-05-29 22:23:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Black Pedro wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:

Summary
We all know it is a correlation...but we will state otherwise anyways.


Yup, and guess what... 100% of people that get cancer have drunken water at some point in their life.
I guess this means water causes cancer.

I know you and I understand that these correlations could potentially mean nothing.
Perhaps these other guys will eventually stop trying to use them to bash NPC corps?
Not like though...

Wow, when will you guys stop parroting that simplistic line. Correlations are used all the time to support hypotheses much more radical than "social interactions keep players in a social MMO game".

CCP has a massive dataset which they have mined backwards and forwards and are confident enough in there interpretation of the data to have CCP Rise stand up and present these findings to the world at Fanfest. You can put your head in the sand and call him incompetent or a liar, but that doesn't change the direction in which CCP is going to take this game.

Getting new players out of NPC corps and into player corps is now an important goal for CCP. I guess you are just going to have to deal with that.


never once have we said that getting new players out of NPC corps isn't an important goal.
We have merely stated that allowing war decs on NPC corps and making high sec PVP more viable are not solutions.
Even if that solution did increase newbro retention, it would likely not cover the loses caused by this.

Also, I would like to point out that correlations to hypothesis(an educated guess) is not valid enough to institute change.
it is nothing more than a conjunction to allow further testing.

Example -
Hypothesis - this pill may cure cancer
Correlation - Out of 5 test subjects with cancer, one no longer had cancer
Synopsis - said pill is a potential as cancer cure
Evaluation - Further testing with a larger test pool shows that only 1 out of 100 was cured of cancer
Conclusion - Said pill is not a viable cure for cancer and potentially cured subjects are likely coincidental.


Right now, CCP is at the Synopsis phase of social interaction = retention.

I will say that yes, player interaction does increase sustainability.
However, I will state that this conversation is in reference to newbros and NPC corps.
IE, is player interaction pertinent to newbro retention, or is it more important after training is complete?
Also, is the NPC corp experience hindering retention, or are non-retainable newbros more likely to remain in NPC corps?
Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#1145 - 2015-05-29 22:31:08 UTC
The thing most people and Ccp seem to be ignoring tho, is a lot of people don't care for social interaction. Forcing those people into situations they want nothing to do with will hurt their sub retention more then if they just left it alone.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1146 - 2015-05-29 22:33:42 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

Getting new players out of NPC corps and into player corps is now an important goal for CCP.


As it should be. It's just that turning them into fish in a barrel is not the way to do it.

There is no more incentive to leave NPC corps than there was 10 years ago. That's the real problem. Make being in a player corp meaningful.

Balancing the awox situation was a start at positive incentives. And positive incentives are what's needed. Not removing wardec immunity. Not forcing players out after 30 days. Not raising taxes to 90%.

You shouldn't be punished for wanting to stay in an NPC corp. You should be rewarded for leaving it. Though many may never leave, as is their choice in a sandbox, many may actually want to leave if the rewards are worth it. And speaking of sandbox, why aren't player corps more inviting for new players? It's not CCPs place to force them out, it's the player corps place to make it an interesting and exciting option to staying in NPC.

There are good corps in the game. Even some good teaching corps. The thing is that there are so few of them it's frustrating for players to get into them what with the draconian interviews and massive wait times.

It's all you whiners in high sec corps not willing to take new players under your wing that's the real problem here. You don't want to do that, it seems. What you want is new players being forced to make one man and small corps of inexperienced players so you can practice the manly art of war griefing for your own risk averse pleasure.

So stop with the ranting and raging and start doing something about it. If you seriously think it's good for the game as opposed to being good for your chickenshit play style, then open your doors. Welcome new players into the fold and make it a fun and positive learning experience to be blowing up ships. Or don't. But don't cry if you are not willing to be part of the solution. Just go away and let someone else that actually cares about the game do it.

Mr Epeen Cool
Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#1147 - 2015-05-29 22:39:41 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:

Getting new players out of NPC corps and into player corps is now an important goal for CCP.


As it should be. It's just that turning them into fish in a barrel is not the way to do it.

There is no more incentive to leave NPC corps than there was 10 years ago. That's the real problem. Make being in a player corp meaningful.

Balancing the awox situation was a start at positive incentives. And positive incentives are what's needed. Not removing wardec immunity. Not forcing players out after 30 days. Not raising taxes to 90%.

You shouldn't be punished for wanting to stay in an NPC corp. You should be rewarded for leaving it. Though many may never leave, as is their choice in a sandbox, many may actually want to leave if the rewards are worth it. And speaking of sandbox, why aren't player corps more inviting for new players? It's not CCPs place to force them out, it's the player corps place to make it an interesting and exciting option to staying in NPC.

There are good corps in the game. Even some good teaching corps. The thing is that there are so few of them it's frustrating for players to get into them what with the draconian interviews and massive wait times.

It's all you whiners in high sec corps not willing to take new players under your wing that's the real problem here. You don't want to do that, it seems. What you want is new players being forced to make one man and small corps of inexperienced players so you can practice the manly art of war griefing for your own risk averse pleasure.

So stop with the ranting and raging and start doing something about it. If you seriously think it's good for the game as opposed to being good for your chickenshit play style, then open your doors. Welcome new players into the fold and make it a fun and positive learning experience to be blowing up ships. Or don't. But don't cry if you are not willing to be part of the solution. Just go away and let someone else that actually cares about the game do it.

Mr Epeen Cool


The amount of truth in this is staggering.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1148 - 2015-05-29 22:52:59 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:

Getting new players out of NPC corps and into player corps is now an important goal for CCP.


As it should be. It's just that turning them into fish in a barrel is not the way to do it.

There is no more incentive to leave NPC corps than there was 10 years ago. That's the real problem. Make being in a player corp meaningful.

Balancing the awox situation was a start at positive incentives. And positive incentives are what's needed. Not removing wardec immunity. Not forcing players out after 30 days. Not raising taxes to 90%.

You shouldn't be punished for wanting to stay in an NPC corp. You should be rewarded for leaving it. Though many may never leave, as is their choice in a sandbox, many may actually want to leave if the rewards are worth it. And speaking of sandbox, why aren't player corps more inviting for new players? It's not CCPs place to force them out, it's the player corps place to make it an interesting and exciting option to staying in NPC.

There are good corps in the game. Even some good teaching corps. The thing is that there are so few of them it's frustrating for players to get into them what with the draconian interviews and massive wait times.

It's all you whiners in high sec corps not willing to take new players under your wing that's the real problem here. You don't want to do that, it seems. What you want is new players being forced to make one man and small corps of inexperienced players so you can practice the manly art of war griefing for your own risk averse pleasure.

So stop with the ranting and raging and start doing something about it. If you seriously think it's good for the game as opposed to being good for your chickenshit play style, then open your doors. Welcome new players into the fold and make it a fun and positive learning experience to be blowing up ships. Or don't. But don't cry if you are not willing to be part of the solution. Just go away and let someone else that actually cares about the game do it.

Mr Epeen Cool



But Mr. Epeen, why can't I have my cake and eat it too while forcing others to eat the cake I like?
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#1149 - 2015-05-29 23:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Wars don't add anything to the game.


corp A is owned by a null/lowsec corp/alliance lives in high sec and mines and builds equipment for their creator.

corp B is owned by their enemy and war decs them to stem the flow of equipment.

so wrong, wars have a very valid function within high sec and this is just one example.

Aza Ebanu wrote:

More mature players have moved to WH, null or low sec, while alting it up in high sec.



yea we know,, this is the corp/alliance i was talking about above. that's if they are in a corp after the first few war decs, more than likely they've jumped into an NPC corp so only have to worry about the odd gank now and then.

Aza Ebanu wrote:

War decs only exist to harass new players because, they are a high sec mechanic. Good game design would have made more of it than that.



war decs are not there to harass new players. war decs would exist even if they where not a mechanic in the game, i know many games that don't have a war dec mechanic but that doesn't stop one group attacking another.
you remove war decs and you remove an important part of the game, conflict, which drives EVE.
high sec wars as also an important way for players to enter small scale PVP that's not to take away from some high sec wars which are just as much fun as low of null sec combat, some would say even better.
each to their own i say Blink

from what you've just said i can only assume that you'd like an area where no one can shoot at you while you mine and mission. that's never going to happen, what makes you think it would is beyond me, we can never have an area where you can reap rewards without risk.

no matter where you are in EVE when you undock from a station you consent to combat. the quicker a new player gets used to this the better. because that's how it is in EVE.
if any player refuses to accept that then it's best you stay docked when you get a war dec
Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#1150 - 2015-05-29 23:07:38 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Wars don't add anything to the game.


corp A is owned by a nul/lowsec corp/alliance lives in high sec and mines and builds equipment for their creator.

corp B is owned by their enemy and war decs them to stem the flow of equipment.

so wrong, wars have a very valid function within high sec and this is just one example.

Aza Ebanu wrote:

More mature players have moved to WH, null or low sec, while alting it up in high sec.



yea we know,, this is the corp/alliance i was talking about above. that's if they are in a corp after the first few war decs, more than likely they've umped into an NPC corp so only have to worry about the odd gank now and then.

Aza Ebanu wrote:

War decs only exist to harass new players because, they are a high sec mechanic. Good game design would have made more of it than that.



war decs are not there to harass new players. war decs would exist even if they where not a mechanic in the game, i know many games that dont' have a war dec mechanic but that doesn't stop one group attacking another.
you remove war decs and you remove an importan part of the game, conflict, which drives EVE.
high sec wars as also an important way for players to enter small scale PVP that's not to take away from some high sec wars which are just as much fun as low of null sec combat, some would say even better.
each to their own i say Blink

from what you've just said i can only assume that you'd like an area where no one can shoot at you while you mine and mission. that's never going to happen, what makes you think it would is beyond me, we can never have an area where you can reap rewards with a risk.

no matter where you are in EVE when you undock from a station you consent to combat. the quicker a new player gets used to this the better. because that's how it is in EVE.
if any player refuses to accept that then it's best you stay docked when you get a war dec








Uh, cloaking device, helloooo. That one item alone essentially let's you skip roughly 90% of any so called risk.
Solstice Punk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1151 - 2015-05-29 23:08:53 UTC

Hey Yuri, why'd you biomass and recreate ?

Looking for friends ? Want to boost your Likes ? Ever wanted to chat with the hottest Lady in New Eden ??

Join LAGL ! Post "Sol said Hi !" and receive ten Million ISK!

They have IRC too!
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#1152 - 2015-05-29 23:11:54 UTC
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:

Uh, cloaking device, helloooo. That one item alone essentially let's you skip roughly 90% of any so called risk.



I'm playing the game 8 years i know what a fecking cloaking device is.

you are not skipping 90% of anything,, you are playing the game. you've undocked and are taking a risk.. fair play to you Lol
Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#1153 - 2015-05-29 23:14:33 UTC
Solstice Punk wrote:

Hey Yuri, why'd you biomass and recreate ?



That was a mining alt, this is my main.
Solstice Punk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1154 - 2015-05-29 23:17:08 UTC
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
Solstice Punk wrote:

Hey Yuri, why'd you biomass and recreate ?



That was a mining alt, this is my main.

What ?

You delete a mining alt with the same name and some SP ...
... and instead create a new char and call it main.

That makes no sense at all, you know ?

Looking for friends ? Want to boost your Likes ? Ever wanted to chat with the hottest Lady in New Eden ??

Join LAGL ! Post "Sol said Hi !" and receive ten Million ISK!

They have IRC too!
Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#1155 - 2015-05-29 23:17:45 UTC
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
Solstice Punk wrote:

Hey Yuri, why'd you biomass and recreate ?



That was a mining alt, this is my main.

I suffer from Multiple alt disorder lol, or as my wife says "character a.d.d"
Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#1156 - 2015-05-29 23:19:22 UTC
Solstice Punk wrote:
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
Solstice Punk wrote:

Hey Yuri, why'd you biomass and recreate ?



That was a mining alt, this is my main.

What ?

You delete a mining alt with the same name and some SP ...
... and instead create a new char and call it main.

That makes no sense at all, you know ?


It was only just under 200k sp, nothing major. And he was named after this Yuri. Its YuriCeption lol
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#1157 - 2015-05-29 23:20:07 UTC
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
Solstice Punk wrote:

Hey Yuri, why'd you biomass and recreate ?



That was a mining alt, this is my main.

I suffer from Multiple alt disorder lol, or as my wife says "character a.d.d"


so ya saying ya M A D bro

got it Roll
Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#1158 - 2015-05-29 23:21:41 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
Solstice Punk wrote:

Hey Yuri, why'd you biomass and recreate ?



That was a mining alt, this is my main.

I suffer from Multiple alt disorder lol, or as my wife says "character a.d.d"


so ya saying ya M A D bro

got it Roll


Lol clever
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1159 - 2015-05-29 23:22:37 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
You are arguing that CCP should make no effort increasing the social and sandbox integration


Literally NO ONE is saying that.

Black Pedro wrote:
All the data points to the increased retention rate for players who leave NPC corps


No it ******* doesn't.
It points to a commonality between players who continue to play EVE for more than 30 days and players who do things SUCH AS leave NPC corps . . . or use drones or buy and sell stuff on the market, etc.
People who don't take a fishing pole to the lake and people who don't catch any fish at the lake share A commonality, but not necessarily THE commonality of being bad fishermen.
People who stay in NPC corporations and people who don't continue to play EVE share A commonality, but not necessarily THE commonality of not having joined a player corporation.

And, do you understand the difference between:
Black Pedro wrote:
CCP wrote:
We'd like players to leave NPC corporations.

and
CCP wrote:
We'd like players to leave NPC corporations.


Don't tell us their opinion. Tell us where they stated their opinion.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1160 - 2015-05-29 23:43:21 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Shailagh wrote:
Im trying to make ccp money here. They have data that shows people that stay in npc corps quit more often. They said corp ceos dont like recruiting noobs cuz of fear of awox, do you believe this is the main reason?

I believe people stay in npc corps (and therefor quit more often) to evade wars.

Are wars the most dangerous aspect to retention (players staying in npc corps) and therefore should be nerfed to increase player corp levels and retention?

Nerf wars to save the noobs and make people join player corps to increase retention and ccps wallet?

Wars don't add anything to the game. More mature players have moved to WH, null or low sec, while alting it up in high sec. War decs only exist to harass new players because, they are a high sec mechanic. Good game design would have made more of it than that.



Well, it's not just to harass new players.
They also like to use it to harass miner, missioners, traders, and other non-direct PVP.

Though, some wardecs are used for good reasons.
I once used a war dec against a mining corp filled with alts that was mining every asteroid belt within 3 jumps, everyday.
9-10 characters, all with the same names and a number.

It was very likely that this person was macro-mining with these characters, as no human being has the tolerance or dedication to mine out several asteroid belts, on a daily basis, from down time to down time.

Though, we did suicide gank a few of his ships before we war decced him. the suicide ganks were enough to force him out of the system, but we wanted to make sure he stayed as far away as possible.

That kind of thing should be policed by game developers not players.