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why do players stay in npc corps?

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#801 - 2015-05-22 05:32:12 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated.


I didn't state that. NPC corps are still social, a newish player in a one man corp is a very lonely way to play EVE.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If tax is the issue then going to a corp with similar taxes isn't a solution. If all a corp has to offer is taxes there is no reason to join even without npc corps as part of the decision.


We might know that player corps offer more than that but to a huge number of highsec players all they see the risk of wardecs and no reward for facing that risk. In reality the chances of being wardeced is slim to non but these people belive that it will happen on a bi-weekly basis. To them they see the 1% less tax as simply not worth it. If NPC corps had 20% tax then the reward is more clear to them.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#802 - 2015-05-22 05:37:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated.


I didn't state that. NPC corps are still social, a newish player in a one man corp is a very lonely way to play EVE.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If tax is the issue then going to a corp with similar taxes isn't a solution. If all a corp has to offer is taxes there is no reason to join even without npc corps as part of the decision.


We might know that player corps offer more than that but to a huge number of highsec players all they see the risk of wardecs and no reward for facing that risk. In reality the chances of being wardeced is slim to non but these people belive that it will happen on a bi-weekly basis. To them they see the 1% less tax as simply not worth it. If NPC corps had 20% tax then the reward is more clear to them.

Yeah but player corps shouldn't only have a bonus to PVE. If that's all player corps have then they really aren't worth it.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#803 - 2015-05-22 06:07:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated.


I didn't state that. NPC corps are still social, a newish player in a one man corp is a very lonely way to play EVE.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If tax is the issue then going to a corp with similar taxes isn't a solution. If all a corp has to offer is taxes there is no reason to join even without npc corps as part of the decision.


We might know that player corps offer more than that but to a huge number of highsec players all they see the risk of wardecs and no reward for facing that risk. In reality the chances of being wardeced is slim to non but these people belive that it will happen on a bi-weekly basis. To them they see the 1% less tax as simply not worth it. If NPC corps had 20% tax then the reward is more clear to them.

These arguments apply differently to 2 different groups so I'd like clarification on which we are talking about. If new players the preconceived notions of continual decs don't apply, and if actual dec dodgers the idea of social isolation similarly is something the player has accounted for.

And for many experienced players many corp services are useless. I don't need explanations of basic mechanics or SRP on disposable PvP ships I'm not flying. Group ops are nice but nothing obligates corp membership there. What most groups offer many of us don't need.
Silver Price
Doomheim
#804 - 2015-05-22 07:08:24 UTC
why do other players don't play the game like i do?

that's the mystery isn't it?

we must all follow the leader, independence gets you rid of the club.

*sheep noise*

NERF HIGH SEC
Shimoto
Doomheim
#805 - 2015-05-22 08:01:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Shimoto
...
Nevil Oscillator
#806 - 2015-05-22 09:08:13 UTC
Shimoto wrote:
I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.

.


I would say the scale of operations that a player corp can do

Many activities in Eve are not practical for a solo player.
flakeys
Doomheim
#807 - 2015-05-22 09:12:37 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Shimoto wrote:
I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.

.


I would say the scale of operations that a player corp can do

Many activities in Eve are not practical for a solo player.



A lot of the activities wich require a group can be done without actually joining the corp/Alliance the others are in.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
flakeys
Doomheim
#808 - 2015-05-22 09:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
baltec1 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated.


I didn't state that. NPC corps are still social, a newish player in a one man corp is a very lonely way to play EVE.

.




Assuming he also plays alone , wich is quite an assumption baltec.I've been in one man corps half of my eve time and the other half in big alliances.I did more pvp when i was in my own one man corp , not saying more iskdamage mind you but just more pvp and i did less pve while i was in my one man corp.In both these playstyles i was 'socially active' and doing solo pvp as well as group pvp.

The only reason i would see wich requires the need to be in a player corp/Alliance is nullsec warfare.This is the key thing though , the NEED to be in a player driven corp is not there for most things in the game and i find that a good thing because ultimatly people should choose themselves what kind of playstyle they prefer.As long as they are enjoying the game enough to keep their sub running it is a bonus to CCP finances and as such to the whole community.

We are not talking about changing the game here , we are discussing how people can enjoy themselves within the given game as it is , i realy don't see what is wrong with that and why people have been complaining about this for years.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#809 - 2015-05-22 09:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
I want to see evidence of the baseless accusations by Ronuken.

Unbiased evidence. Something that clearly puts the blame on the deccers.

Something that supports their lies of mass griefing.

Something that supports their **** of natural selection and proges
that it's not actually ******, bigmouthing CEOs who get decced for a good reason !

You weak people completely evade natural selection.

PROTECT THE WEAK !
DON'T FORCE THEM TO LEARN SOMETHING!
NO WE NEED TO SHIELD THEM FROM BAD FEELINGS!


THAT is what's happening, you disgusting BigBrother society !
And I bet most of you victims have no clue what that even means !
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Nevil Oscillator
#810 - 2015-05-22 09:53:04 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Shimoto wrote:
I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.

.


I would say the scale of operations that a player corp can do

Many activities in Eve are not practical for a solo player.



A lot of the activities wich require a group can be done without actually joining the corp/Alliance the others are in.


I'll take your word for it
flakeys
Doomheim
#811 - 2015-05-22 10:35:34 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Shimoto wrote:
I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.

.


I would say the scale of operations that a player corp can do

Many activities in Eve are not practical for a solo player.



A lot of the activities wich require a group can be done without actually joining the corp/Alliance the others are in.


I'll take your word for it



I'd rather have it you prove me wrong though ... more fun in that isn't there?

Meh i'll just wait for baltec to come in ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#812 - 2015-05-22 10:39:14 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Yeah but player corps shouldn't only have a bonus to PVE. If that's all player corps have then they really aren't worth it.


Its the most clear and easy to see way of making player corps stand out against the NPC ones. On paper its not much but to a great bulk of people it make a very compelling argument to say "we make you pay half the tax you currently pay". Anyone worth their salt knows player corps are far better than NPC corps, the problem is the people who stay in NPC corps don't see it because they have never been in a player corp. The 20% tax would do a suprising amount to nudge them towards player corps and is a very easy thing to do without making heavy nerfs to NPC corps themselves.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
These arguments apply differently to 2 different groups so I'd like clarification on which we are talking about. If new players the preconceived notions of continual decs don't apply, and if actual dec dodgers the idea of social isolation similarly is something the player has accounted for.

And for many experienced players many corp services are useless. I don't need explanations of basic mechanics or SRP on disposable PvP ships I'm not flying. Group ops are nice but nothing obligates corp membership there. What most groups offer many of us don't need.

War dec dodging isn't an issue to do with NPC corps themselves and more to do with the broken wardec mechanics.

Player corps offer more than just SRP. A small group of miners for example can support eachother, pool resources for industrial activities, protect each other, simplify things such as mass transport and most importantly they can trust each other in these activities.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#813 - 2015-05-22 10:46:20 UTC
Shimoto wrote:
I still haven't seen a compelling argument to persuade the sort of people who prefer to remain in an NPC to corp to join a player corp instead.

You won't see a compelling argument. because what any individual chooses to do is perfectly within their right.

CCP clearly understand that.

This thread started following the introduction of the friendly fire toggle because CCP are interested not so much in what individuals choose, but what the aggregate trends are. They are trying to develop an environment that facilitates new players becoming engaged in social activities as early as possible.

One of the issues CCP sees is the number of players that remain in NPC Corps and don't move to player corps. Part of that was supposed to be addressed through the friendly fire toggle, which was to encourage Corps to open up more recruitment.

The other side of that is getting more people to look for player Corps to move to, not because NPC Corps aren't social, but because player Corps generally are and are a way to help create that early social engagement.

That's all this thread was originally about. Trying to gain an understanding of the reasons players don't move to player Corps, to provide more data for CCP (whether that is a realistic aim or not).
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#814 - 2015-05-22 12:03:35 UTC
*Sigh* Stupid certificate problems... reply disappeared in a puff of bits

I was wondering if a large part of the reluctance to join player corporations is down to the huge number of corporations available.
Throw in the problem that some corporations appear to offer everything and others appear to want you on call 23/7, I can see how that could be overwhelming.
Thankfully there is the sticky thread in Q&A on how to find the right corporation.
Nevil Oscillator
#815 - 2015-05-22 12:19:26 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
[quote=Shimoto]I
You won't see a compelling argument. because what any individual chooses to do is perfectly within their right.



There is no compelling arguement because player corporations and NPC corporations are part of the economic balance. There is no ruling that says player corporations will be more successful, it is for it's members to make it so.
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#816 - 2015-05-22 17:47:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Yeah but player corps shouldn't only have a bonus to PVE. If that's all player corps have then they really aren't worth it.


Its the most clear and easy to see way of making player corps stand out against the NPC ones. On paper its not much but to a great bulk of people it make a very compelling argument to say "we make you pay half the tax you currently pay". Anyone worth their salt knows player corps are far better than NPC corps, the problem is the people who stay in NPC corps don't see it because they have never been in a player corp. The 20% tax would do a suprising amount to nudge them towards player corps and is a very easy thing to do without making heavy nerfs to NPC corps themselves.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
These arguments apply differently to 2 different groups so I'd like clarification on which we are talking about. If new players the preconceived notions of continual decs don't apply, and if actual dec dodgers the idea of social isolation similarly is something the player has accounted for.

And for many experienced players many corp services are useless. I don't need explanations of basic mechanics or SRP on disposable PvP ships I'm not flying. Group ops are nice but nothing obligates corp membership there. What most groups offer many of us don't need.

War dec dodging isn't an issue to do with NPC corps themselves and more to do with the broken wardec mechanics.

Player corps offer more than just SRP. A small group of miners for example can support eachother, pool resources for industrial activities, protect each other, simplify things such as mass transport and most importantly they can trust each other in these activities.


Wait, you don't consider a >80% increase in NPC corp tax rates to be a nerf?

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#817 - 2015-05-22 18:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Yeah but player corps shouldn't only have a bonus to PVE. If that's all player corps have then they really aren't worth it.


baltec1 wrote:
Its the most clear and easy to see way of making player corps stand out against the NPC ones. On paper its not much but to a great bulk of people it make a very compelling argument to say "we make you pay half the tax you currently pay". Anyone worth their salt knows player corps are far better than NPC corps, the problem is the people who stay in NPC corps don't see it because they have never been in a player corp. The 20% tax would do a suprising amount to nudge them towards player corps and is a very easy thing to do without making heavy nerfs to NPC corps themselves.



Do you want a bunch of mission runners in your corp? spread all over EVE? The problem with taxes is, the ISK is going into a players pocket for nothing. It is free isk for one guy. If I am a min/max PVE player, I am going to make a one man corps so I can keep the goodies. A PVE focused nerf to NPC corps is a PVE bonus to player corps. You might not be aware of this, but most CEOs raise taxes to ensure PVE activities don't happen and corp members do non PVE group things. BTW, it doesn't work.
Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#818 - 2015-05-22 19:07:34 UTC

We have 2 alt slots per account. It's impossible to have these alts in a "bonafide" (read: not tax shelter) corps because of how APIs work. I certainly wouldn't be able to have a BRAVE pilot and a GSF bee on the same account. So those alts would have to chill in NPC corps, because the unspoken rule is that is what the API gods demand.

In a way, the corps themselves force the majority of pilots to be in NPC Corps.

Ban account wide APIs.

Ban mail APIs. Mail should use SSO authentication instead of API, and the API endpoint should be removed.

Blink

everything is better with ᵈᵒᵗˢ on it

New Player Opportunities: a gallery
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#819 - 2015-05-22 19:15:05 UTC
Dots wrote:

We have 2 alt slots per account. It's impossible to have these alts in a "bonafide" (read: not tax shelter) corps because of how APIs work. I certainly wouldn't be able to have a BRAVE pilot and a GSF bee on the same account. So those alts would have to chill in NPC corps, because the unspoken rule is that is what the API gods demand.

In a way, the corps themselves force the majority of pilots to be in NPC Corps.

Ban account wide APIs.

Ban mail APIs. Mail should use SSO authentication instead of API, and the API endpoint should be removed.

Blink

OMG You're in goonswarm as well? D:

Also ... freedom for mail-clients. :p
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Shimoto
Doomheim
#820 - 2015-05-22 20:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Shimoto
...