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why do players stay in npc corps?

First post
Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#781 - 2015-05-22 02:03:42 UTC
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
What I don't understand, is where you get off telling/forcing me to play your way.


No one is saying that except your own side, it's a painfully obvious strawman by now. What we would like, however, is for NPC corps to not be the obviously better choice for almost everything. You know, that little thing called game balance.

The rest of your post is just you ranting against the position that no one is actually taking.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Yuri Ostrovskoy
Doomheim
#782 - 2015-05-22 02:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuri Ostrovskoy
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
What I don't understand, is where you get off telling/forcing me to play your way.


No one is saying that except your own side, it's a painfully obvious strawman by now. What we would like, however, is for NPC corps to not be the obviously better choice for almost everything. You know, that little thing called game balance.

The rest of your post is just you ranting against the position that no one is actually taking.


Then I highly suggest the players step up, and make their corps a better place to be. Yes, the ranting is warranted, due to the air of that position sitting like a cloud over these 40pages. It has a stench about it that's very noticeable, like suburu drivers who eat organic food and wear crossfit clothing.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#783 - 2015-05-22 02:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
What I don't understand, is where you get off telling/forcing me to play your way.


No one is saying that except your own side, it's a painfully obvious strawman by now. What we would like, however, is for NPC corps to not be the obviously better choice for almost everything. You know, that little thing called game balance.

The rest of your post is just you ranting against the position that no one is actually taking.


Don't get mad at him, he isn't saying anything negative bout you, just that most player corps don't offer enough value. You belong to a really good alliance. You guys have a goal and an efficient way of executing your goals. You log in with purpose and have more fun than the average player. I think this is what CCP wants, but there needs to be more players to build focused corps. More CEOs who give a darrn about other players, and don't run things like it is a RL business or government.

I can't tell you how many CEOs get into this game thinking that they are going to be at the top and hire players to work for them while they profit. They have no clue about the game, and they contribute to the worst EVE experiences ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#784 - 2015-05-22 03:03:11 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

I can't tell you how many CEOs get into this game thinking that they are going to be at the top and hire players to work for them while they profit. They have no clue about the game, and they contribute to the worst EVE experiences ever.


I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them.

It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Vector Symian
0 Fear
#785 - 2015-05-22 03:16:13 UTC
Coz they is the AWSOMEZZ!! Big smile
Nevil Oscillator
#786 - 2015-05-22 04:06:16 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them.

It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.



How will that help ?
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#787 - 2015-05-22 04:08:42 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them.

It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.



How will that help ?

So people like you arent allowed to pay 3mill, create a corp and when newbros join, have their first interaction with you. Cuz if that happened, theyd quit and never resub.

Most ceos are terrible and actually hurt retention and hurt players. New bros are gullible
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#788 - 2015-05-22 04:19:01 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them.

It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.



How will that help ?

So people like you arent allowed to pay 3mill, create a corp and when newbros join, have their first interaction with you. Cuz if that happened, theyd quit and never resub.

Most ceos are terrible and actually hurt retention and hurt players. New bros are gullible

What requirement would actually make bad CEOs less bad? Be it 3 mill, 30 mill or 300mill, how does it stop a bad potential CEO any more than a potential good one?
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#789 - 2015-05-22 04:24:36 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them.

It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.



How will that help ?

So people like you arent allowed to pay 3mill, create a corp and when newbros join, have their first interaction with you. Cuz if that happened, theyd quit and never resub.

Most ceos are terrible and actually hurt retention and hurt players. New bros are gullible

What requirement would actually make bad CEOs less bad? Be it 3 mill, 30 mill or 300mill, how does it stop a bad potential CEO any more than a potential good one?

Not isk. It would have to be time related. Maybe the opportunity system they just made? Like useful stats of being fleet boss kills maybe even like ships built and deployables released, there are soooo many crest stats. Maybe lowsec jumps, i duno, there is humdred of those new Crest stats they could use to determine someone with game mechanjc knowledge and someone with none. Just stuff to not allow complete newbie idiots make corps and then some other newbro on a trial joins his terrible corp and gets ruined and never subs directly cuz of bjs terrible ceo who doesnt deserve to have ever been a ceo
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#790 - 2015-05-22 04:29:51 UTC
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote:
What I don't understand, is where you get off telling/forcing me to play your way.


No one is saying that except your own side, it's a painfully obvious strawman by now. What we would like, however, is for NPC corps to not be the obviously better choice for almost everything. You know, that little thing called game balance.

The rest of your post is just you ranting against the position that no one is actually taking.


Then I highly suggest the players step up, and make their corps a better place to be. Yes, the ranting is warranted, due to the air of that position sitting like a cloud over these 40pages. It has a stench about it that's very noticeable, like suburu drivers who eat organic food and wear crossfit clothing.


How do you beat war dec immunity and low tax rates?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#791 - 2015-05-22 04:35:53 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Not isk. It would have to be time related. Maybe the opportunity system they just made? Like useful stats of being fleet boss kills maybe even like ships built and deployables released, there are soooo many crest stats. Maybe lowsec jumps, i duno, there is humdred of those new Crest stats they could use to determine someone with game mechanjc knowledge and someone with none. Just stuff to not allow complete newbie idiots make corps and then some other newbro on a trial joins his terrible corp and gets ruined and never subs directly cuz of bjs terrible ceo who doesnt deserve to have ever been a ceo

The stats can determine having done a number of things but probably won't do well in determining having done them well or having a full understanding of them. It also prevents the concept of a group of new players from forming their own identity until some possibly irrelevant metrics tell them their "ready." While it's not an ideal path in the typical mindset, it's a viable option that probably shouldn't be discarded.

Lastly, what criteria should apply? Does a highsec wardec corp need extensive lowsec, null or WH experience? Does a PvE centric corp need a certain number of kills from it's founder? Does a group of station traders need to bother undocking? Does the soloist need fleet experience?

What criteria make sense for all the valid corp use cases?
Nevil Oscillator
#792 - 2015-05-22 04:40:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


How do you beat war dec immunity and low tax rates?


With group coordinated activities is the idea.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#793 - 2015-05-22 04:42:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
How do you beat war dec immunity and low tax rates?

If 11% is low I think you found part of your issue right there. To the other part, if you don't acknowledge wardecs as an issue but a desired method of gameplay then you don't try to beat it. You either accept them as a drawback and try to offer things to entice people or you use them as a draw for members as an activity.

The interesting thing with the taxes especially is that if 11% is truly low the current NPC corp player doesn't look at player corps as an alternative should the tax rate in NPC corps be changed, rather the one man corp becomes the desired mode of operation.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#794 - 2015-05-22 04:47:11 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


How do you beat war dec immunity and low tax rates?


With group coordinated activities is the idea.


You can do them and stay in an NPC corp.

The problem is there is no incentive to ever leave npc corps for a lot of people. People need a reward for taking on more risk and like it or not that reward comes in the form of isk. Leaving the safety of an npc corp for a paltry 1% less tax on your bounties isn't exactly a great offer.
Nevil Oscillator
#795 - 2015-05-22 04:53:10 UTC
I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#796 - 2015-05-22 04:58:41 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp.


Who wants to play a MMO alone?

Tax is the problem. That is the intensive to get people to join player corps and leave the protection of the NPC corps.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#797 - 2015-05-22 05:02:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

I can't tell you how many CEOs get into this game thinking that they are going to be at the top and hire players to work for them while they profit. They have no clue about the game, and they contribute to the worst EVE experiences ever.


I can tell you. I was an awoxer for a long time, before CCP decided that should not be a thing anymore, so I've dealt with more than my fair share of them.

It's the vast majority of them. It's why I've argued for a while to put corp creation behind a harder barrier of entry.


Besides skills, there isn't much they could do for a barrier. TBH CCP misleads a lot of new players about what corporations are. I mean there are shares in a corporation that most players have no idea what to do with(and don't use). Corporate contracts are another idea lost on new players . All CCP shows is how some guy got away with billions of isk in corporate earnings. All that does is show people one side of something. While I don't agree with your methods, I share your sentiments for bad CEOs.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#798 - 2015-05-22 05:04:41 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp.


And it doesn't effect mining and trade. It does lead to one man corps as you have illustrated.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#799 - 2015-05-22 05:09:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp.


Who wants to play a MMO alone?

Tax is the problem. That is the intensive to get people to join player corps and leave the protection of the NPC corps.

Playing in a 1 man corp and playing alone are not equivalent as you yourself stated. If tax is the issue then going to a corp with similar taxes isn't a solution. If all a corp has to offer is taxes there is no reason to join even without npc corps as part of the decision.
Nevil Oscillator
#800 - 2015-05-22 05:17:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
baltec1 wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
I don't see the tax argument because A player can form their own corp and charge themselves no tax thereby no longer being in an NPC corp.


Who wants to play a MMO alone?

Tax is the problem. That is the intensive to get people to join player corps and leave the protection of the NPC corps.


Just saying NPC corps do not have that advantage over player corps necessarily.

So it is not logical as a reason to stay in a NPC corp.

Where as not liking any of the corp logos is entirely logical