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why do players stay in npc corps?

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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#641 - 2015-03-22 08:48:41 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


I can't do the math right now on the SP total for all 4 racial cruiser lines up to T3 with all critical skills and weapons including full drones. I suspect it's rather alot. 100M SP should have it covered. 25M will be lacking.
If you pvp in highsec with 15B in assets and don't have a decent selection of advanced/faction cruisers at every hub you are doing it wrong.







I have a lot of things in a certain Trade hub, your probably right there. Oops

Asides from that. and being completely asides the point, and being low blow...bastard. Also if you can't do the math then your purely speculation is just that speculation. I can fly every cruiser near perfect. From Cerb to Zealot. By near perfect it's mean the weapon specialization but that 2% is bullshit I don't wanna deal with,

You are ignoring that fact that I don't have 60 bowheads following me at all times. Why is that hard to understand? Stop cherry picking and realize when to comes to a point. SP ceases to matter, if you truly believe that SP is a critical part of Combat, I'm very sorry but it's keep you from getting better.


It takes like, 5 minutes to make a couple of jumps and reship. Besides, you are hunting your targets with neutral scouts you should know their ship type(s) and likely fit before undocking.

I know for a fact 25M SP will not give you anywhere near mastery of every racial cruiser line because I have 23M and I'm not even done with Gallente. Give or take a few million SP due to my skilling into frigates and level IV of Gallente BS/BC and large hybrids, the point still stands. Being able to undock ANY tech 2/3 cruiser with near perfect skills is a major advantage. I don't really see how anyone can take issue with that.
Prince Kobol
#642 - 2015-03-22 09:05:14 UTC
Nothing will change as it is the nature of the game.

The same can be said for new player retention.

Until CCP vastly improve the facilities for searching for a new corp and improve the value of HS Corps then nothing will change
Valkin Mordirc
#643 - 2015-03-22 09:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


I can't do the math right now on the SP total for all 4 racial cruiser lines up to T3 with all critical skills and weapons including full drones. I suspect it's rather alot. 100M SP should have it covered. 25M will be lacking.
If you pvp in highsec with 15B in assets and don't have a decent selection of advanced/faction cruisers at every hub you are doing it wrong.







I have a lot of things in a certain Trade hub, your probably right there. Oops

Asides from that. and being completely asides the point, and being low blow...bastard. Also if you can't do the math then your purely speculation is just that speculation. I can fly every cruiser near perfect. From Cerb to Zealot. By near perfect it's mean the weapon specialization but that 2% is bullshit I don't wanna deal with,

You are ignoring that fact that I don't have 60 bowheads following me at all times. Why is that hard to understand? Stop cherry picking and realize when to comes to a point. SP ceases to matter, if you truly believe that SP is a critical part of Combat, I'm very sorry but it's keep you from getting better.


It takes like, 5 minutes to make a couple of jumps and reship. Besides, you are hunting your targets with neutral scouts you should know their ship type(s) and likely fit before undocking.

I know for a fact 25M SP will not give you anywhere near mastery of every racial cruiser line because I have 23M and I'm not even done with Gallente. Give or take a few million SP due to my skilling into frigates and level IV of Gallente BS/BC and large hybrids, the point still stands. Being able to undock ANY tech 2/3 cruiser with near perfect skills is a major advantage. I don't really see how anyone can take issue with that.



" Five minutes to get to a place, reship and head back out to where my scout is"

I give up. You're so stuck on this idea that SP matters that you are either ignoring relevant points I'm giving, dodging them, or somehow have become so obsessed with the idea that you are subconsciously diverting everything said to you so it can fit within your own realms of reasoning.

Normally this would make me mad,

Sadly all I really feel is pity that you will never understand that you have a chance in EvE.
#DeleteTheWeak
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#644 - 2015-03-22 11:10:12 UTC
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Taru Hinken wrote:
Why am i in a NPC corp? Well mostly because i hate the idea of interviews and reports for a game. I have been to many different games and never have i had to insert a 5 page report on my self to join a corp,group,guild or team. I play this game to have fun not to submit to pointless rule 3.152 . Or have to report for weekly (sometimes more...far more ) board meetings. Why? Why put myself through that? I do that in RL. I WILL NOT SUBMIT MY FREE TIME TO DO THE SAME



^ this. Most job interviews require less info than most player corps want.


Info about your space life and your space bank account and your space car and space life insurance and space medical history.
Yeah I'm sure real jobs are super interested in those things.
Valkin Mordirc
#645 - 2015-03-22 11:13:36 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Taru Hinken wrote:
Why am i in a NPC corp? Well mostly because i hate the idea of interviews and reports for a game. I have been to many different games and never have i had to insert a 5 page report on my self to join a corp,group,guild or team. I play this game to have fun not to submit to pointless rule 3.152 . Or have to report for weekly (sometimes more...far more ) board meetings. Why? Why put myself through that? I do that in RL. I WILL NOT SUBMIT MY FREE TIME TO DO THE SAME



^ this. Most job interviews require less info than most player corps want.


Info about your space life and your space bank account and your space car and space life insurance and space medical history.
Yeah I'm sure real jobs are super interested in those things.


Don't forget about the Space Duck


Majestic Space ducks.
#DeleteTheWeak
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#646 - 2015-03-22 11:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: BrundleMeth
Skill Points are very important...

Just last week, I was out clubbing and I asked this bar hottie to dance. She says "Hang on fella, just how many SP DOES your Main have"?

I says "130 Million"

She says "Forget the dance lover, lets go to your place and you can dock your Titan into my POS. It has a real tight back door".
Taru Hinken
State War Academy
Caldari State
#647 - 2015-03-22 12:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Taru Hinken
The thing is why bother going for a player corp? Its far more work then it is worth. And the bonus is what? After all that you get a chat box, rules and wardecs. I have a chat box in the NPC corp and i have no extra requirements. So why should players join a player corp?
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#648 - 2015-03-22 16:42:43 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Taru Hinken wrote:
Why am i in a NPC corp? Well mostly because i hate the idea of interviews and reports for a game. I have been to many different games and never have i had to insert a 5 page report on my self to join a corp,group,guild or team. I play this game to have fun not to submit to pointless rule 3.152 . Or have to report for weekly (sometimes more...far more ) board meetings. Why? Why put myself through that? I do that in RL. I WILL NOT SUBMIT MY FREE TIME TO DO THE SAME



^ this. Most job interviews require less info than most player corps want.


Info about your space life and your space bank account and your space car and space life insurance and space medical history.
Yeah I'm sure real jobs are super interested in those things.


That's my point. i need to give less information in real life to get a job, than i have to fill out and make publicly available to join a corp. I sure as hell dont get the question: "howmany more mail adresses do you have" and "can i read all your mail". It's like an employer would ask for your full facebook access, just without editing rights.

To the guy calling me a liar. i'm judging it from what i've seen myself. i'm sure there are corps where you can easily join, but most of those i've seen have a several step application process which does require more than most jobinterviewers ask. Once you need to make 2 or 3 accounts, fill out 3 questionaires, change your UI to conform to the corp, set up certain programs, and go through an interview (all of this before you're even allowed to apply ingame), its going too far for me and i just say screw it, i'll play solo or with real life friends. It might not be a reason for you, but it is for me.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#649 - 2015-03-22 23:49:39 UTC
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:


To the guy calling me a liar. i'm judging it from what i've seen myself. i'm sure there are corps where you can easily join, but most of those i've seen have a several step application process which does require more than most jobinterviewers ask. Once you need to make 2 or 3 accounts, fill out 3 questionaires, change your UI to conform to the corp, set up certain programs, and go through an interview (all of this before you're even allowed to apply ingame), its going too far for me and i just say screw it, i'll play solo or with real life friends. It might not be a reason for you, but it is for me.


they ask for in game information, not real life information.
you really think employers don't read their workers mails or access their facebook accounts to have a read (not hack)what they might be upto ?

we all know they do Blink it would be really silly to think they don't.

but EVE is a game, people make their own rules up on recruitment. if you don't like it then you can always refuse and walk away.
there is plenty of corps out there that just hit accept to corp if you apply. so if it's not your thing to give API and face an interview then don't. but don't be offended when asked for one. these people who are recruiting you are just doing their role.
all of those tools, UI setup and so on are there to help you not get dead, why would you whine about learning how to not get dead ? maybe you get how it all works,, but some people need help,, best to be sure,, don't you think ?
i guess if you don't like being told what to do then yea, some corps are defo not for you me good man Big smile
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#650 - 2015-03-23 00:20:13 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
there is plenty of corps out there that just hit accept to corp if you apply

[insert generic statement about corp friendly fire, awoxing, and safari mode]

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
i guess if you don't like being told what to do then yea, some corps are defo not for you me good man Big smile

It's not just about being told what to do, it's also about someone else having power to change your tax, lock out some assets you helped gain, do stupid things in association with you but share the consequences, etc. Or just being a general moron with corp ff set to legal and threatening to blow up a freighter every time he sees you in one.
In other words, player corps have power over you, not just human-to-human kind of power, but also some power projected by game mechanics. I can totally understand people who don't like this, especially dependent ones like newbies. A vet can go on without relying on his corp, shrug off grief decs, laugh at losses, play on alts when camped, a newbie doesn't have that power to be independent in a player corp, and thus, might not want to join a player corp in reluctance before being subjected to this kind of power.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#651 - 2015-03-23 08:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Basil Pupkin wrote:

[insert generic statement about corp friendly fire, awoxing, and safari mode]


so whine about a proper process of recruitment and then whine about there not being one. you do know it's a good idea to look at who you are joining also. but then again that means you might have to actually do some activity thats not done for you in game.

Basil Pupkin wrote:

It's not just about being told what to do, it's also about someone else having power to change your tax, lock out some assets you helped gain, do stupid things in association with you but share the consequences, etc. Or just being a general moron with corp ff set to legal and threatening to blow up a freighter every time he sees you in one.
In other words, player corps have power over you, not just human-to-human kind of power, but also some power projected by game mechanics. I can totally understand people who don't like this, especially dependent ones like newbies. A vet can go on without relying on his corp, shrug off grief decs, laugh at losses, play on alts when camped, a newbie doesn't have that power to be independent in a player corp, and thus, might not want to join a player corp in reluctance before being subjected to this kind of power.


what is wrong with you? if you agree to join a player run corp you accept their rules. rules created to protect the corp members and the new guys. If it's issue with anyone having leadership over your actions then find a corp that's happy to have it's members do what the hell they want,, plenty of them out there.
aren't CCP doing what they can to help the new guys out? oppertunities is live for 50% of them, seems to be working better.
badly run corps will always be out there, everyone thinks they are leadership material until they take the seat and realise it's a little bit harder than they thought. i've already stated that i have no issue with people wanting to stay solo. if that's what they want they should be allowed do so.
but a corp where they can avoid one area of PVP but make much much isk out of the rest of the PVP in game, how is that a fair system?
i know by my experience that players that i've had in corp would have quit the game if we had not had these guys join us. we took the time to explain the whys and why nots. they seen in time that there is good reason to listen and be a part of a group.
this suits some,, but not others,,, so back to what the thread asked i guess.
why do players stay in NPC corp? the answer for the most part is shite corps and wardecs, followed by null sec mains alt to make isk without wardecs to worry about and in my view last place the new guy who wants to stay solo.
But CCP know this already Roll
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#652 - 2015-03-23 13:06:54 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
This becomes an unexpectedly good discussion ...

The reasons why I'm staying in an NPC corp were already named by others. The main point for me is ... independence ... I want to be free to decide anytime, what, where, when, and with whom I do stuff in the game. I know if I would join a player corp it would suck me into obligations and responsibility - which is not bad and I won't exclude it for the future - but atm I don't have the time and patience for that.


You have been brainwashed bu the inane blabbering in NPC corp chat. Mandatory fleet OP etc are a thing in a very small number of corps. Plenty of corps manage to make a decent mark with a pretty casual member base. No lack of corps mentioning "RL first" in their description.

What you won't get not being reliably involved is responsibilities, but then it doesn't look like you want them, and being as naive as you are, that it would be wise to give them to you.

In my corp if you're not here you miss on the kills, but no one would even think of holding it against you...
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#653 - 2015-03-23 14:38:09 UTC
I have removed a personal attack.

Quote:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#654 - 2015-03-23 15:23:29 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:

What you won't get not being reliably involved is responsibilities, but then it doesn't look like you want them, and being as naive as you are, that it would be wise to give them to you.

In my corp if you're not here you miss on the kills, but no one would even think of holding it against you...

Hmm, what's the point of being in a player corp then? Just a bunch of people doing things together or not, does not qualify for a player corp IMO.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#655 - 2015-03-23 16:12:13 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:


To the guy calling me a liar. i'm judging it from what i've seen myself. i'm sure there are corps where you can easily join, but most of those i've seen have a several step application process which does require more than most jobinterviewers ask. Once you need to make 2 or 3 accounts, fill out 3 questionaires, change your UI to conform to the corp, set up certain programs, and go through an interview (all of this before you're even allowed to apply ingame), its going too far for me and i just say screw it, i'll play solo or with real life friends. It might not be a reason for you, but it is for me.


they ask for in game information, not real life information.
you really think employers don't read their workers mails or access their facebook accounts to have a read (not hack)what they might be upto ?

we all know they do Blink it would be really silly to think they don't.

but EVE is a game, people make their own rules up on recruitment. if you don't like it then you can always refuse and walk away.
there is plenty of corps out there that just hit accept to corp if you apply. so if it's not your thing to give API and face an interview then don't. but don't be offended when asked for one. these people who are recruiting you are just doing their role.
all of those tools, UI setup and so on are there to help you not get dead, why would you whine about learning how to not get dead ? maybe you get how it all works,, but some people need help,, best to be sure,, don't you think ?
i guess if you don't like being told what to do then yea, some corps are defo not for you me good man Big smile


There are several corps who do ask for personal information and access to ingame mails (which for me is a no go, not because i have something to hide, but out of principle.)

Ofcource its a game, and they make up their own rules. But for me personally, its a reason not to join those corps.

Also: on Facebook i do not use my own name so employers can't find me, i dont access it from anything work related and dont add anyone except people i know in real life. The privacy settings are also set to not show anything to anyone other than friends. I have my own mailbox outside of a work email which i use for private correspondence (and even then, really private stuff, i wont put in that either.)

Like you say: some corps just aren't for me. That is a good enough answer why i stayed in npc corps until someone i know started playing again. ;)
Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#656 - 2015-03-23 17:09:33 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
They are not manageable, ...

They are totally manageable. We have 2 wardecs against us at the moment.

As a pvp Alliance, we have no problem with that whatsoever and we have many new players, none of whom are worried either because we help them manage the issue.

As for eve-uni, they teach people to be an F1 monkey. Great to go to for non-pvp related training, but if you want to learn pvp, don't join eve-uni.


This is categorically false, Eve University corporation has several campuses all across New Eden focused on just about every play style that exists in the sandbox. And contrary to the talking point "EvE is a PVP game", where PVP is a very limited definition of what constitutes player versus player (i.e I maek your ship blow up gud), there are many types of play that exist in EVE.

On the PVP side of things EvE uni has a Wormhole Campus, a Low Sec Campus in Black Rise, and a Null Sec Campus in Syndicate. All of these take out regular small gang and large fleets and ANY member of Eve Uni can coordinate and take out a fleet of any size whenever they want, as long as they follow the rules of engagement which is pretty much just don't shoot blues or structures (Since the corp is neutral).

You get out of the corp what you put into it, stating they "teach you" to become a F1 monkey is just not an informed opinion and belittles one of the few corps that would actually benefit a new player to leave the NPC corps in the first place, especially if the want to PvP, the other well known entities being Brave (If they are still newbie oriented) and RvB. Of course if Low, Null, or WH life are not for a particular capsuleer, the corp is pretty much under permanent "Elite High Sec Mercenary" wardec, so you can play what is clearly "end game" content in high and play station whack a mole all day as well.

There are High Sec Campuses, Mining campuses, a Solitude Campus...all of this is on the website. I just would hate for a new player to come into this thread of all threads, asking why people stay in NPC corps, and have them get turned off from a player corp with a history of being helpful to new players...especially since that one big reason people don't leave NPC corps. Player corps largely...well, suck. It takes effort to make a good corp work, especially for the members.

People that become F1 monkeys become F1 monkeys by choice, but that is representative of the player, not the corp, although some corps do aggregate that type of player. The blob is greater than the sum of it's individually incompetent parts; and a truly big blob is a force to be reckoned with. If you can't beat 'em, n+1.
Freakshow Oriki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#657 - 2015-03-23 17:41:09 UTC
Hello all, I am a new player and thought I would leave some feedback about my time so far in a npc corp.

1.The tax rate so far has not bothered me in fact for the first few days I didn't even realise I was being taxed and I am still not even sure exactly what is taxable in game. Once I realised I could start a one man corp (of which I see many in high-sec) I thought brilliant more isk, more ships, more pew pew. However upon investigation I learned about war-dec and how it affects players. In my humble opinion I could not survive a war dec as much fun as that would be to try for a while anyway. This leads to station camping and again it would be fun to try and outsmart other players and figure out ways to thwart them, I feel they have far more resources to draw upon and it would be futile.

2. I realy can't wait to try some pvp and even though I am low sp and still very much a novice at game mechanics I would love to try even at the expense of ships. However, I currently feel without most frigate skills at a 4-5 it would again be futile against other players who have more sp and better fits never even mind the T2 and above ones. This leads to the fact that it seems there is not enough new player targets around, other players like myself who I could match agianst. Maybe not on an equal footing as I love a challenge just not a face roll and a gf at the end. Eve seems to lack lower level targets who can engage in a fun and challenging manner.

3. My goal being to pvp and meet some interesting people seems to be from my other points blockaded by sp, npc corps, and lack of resources. Now my only chance to gain some experience is to join a player corp, however since joining I have received several mass mails from corps wanting me to join them. Unlike some more naive new player's I asked questions and used google to find out as much as possible about them. Thus I learned most were scams. This is highly off-putting as a new player and leaves me quite reluctant to reach out to other corps that I find interesting. I know scamming is a way of life in EVE and respect the players who put the effort and planning it takes to pull them off, but if like myself it puts off others from joining corps and sticking to this great game then all of Eve suffers for it.

Most of what I have said may not be accurate or even an outright fallacy, I am new and this is my impression thus far of the game. I would very much like to hear from more experienced players on how I may be wrong so I can change and adapt in this game. Like everyone else paying a sub I am looking for my fun :D

Anyway, thank you for taking your time and reading. This was mostly a quick idea dump and as such is missing many other points I have and probably finer adjustments it needs.
tl,dr

1. Tax isn't an issue as a new player

2.There is at least a few weeks gap for players to try pvp and not enough new players to fight. Leading them into the play mission wait for more sp spiral.

3. Corps to new players seem like scams and are warned away from them in npc corp and help chat mostly.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#658 - 2015-03-23 18:19:25 UTC
Freakshow Oriki wrote:
Hello all, I am a new player and thought I would leave some feedback about my time so far in a npc corp.

I think you are a good candidate for trying the NPSI communities ... have a look at the public channels of Spectre Fleet, RvB Ganked, Redemption Road or Bombers Bar. Maybe CAS Combat Guild in Syndicate could be a thing for you ... don't need to play alone Big smile.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Dextrome Thorphan
#659 - 2015-03-24 08:48:44 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
Im trying to make ccp money here. They have data that shows people that stay in npc corps quit more often. They said corp ceos dont like recruiting noobs cuz of fear of awox, do you believe this is the main reason?

I believe people stay in npc corps (and therefor quit more often) to evade wars.

Are wars the most dangerous aspect to retention (players staying in npc corps) and therefore should be nerfed to increase player corp levels and retention?

Nerf wars to save the noobs and make people join player corps to increase retention and ccps wallet?


My alt has been in a private corp for half a decade, I've owned several POSes, never got wardecced -- maybe I was just lucky though. I keep a low profile ^^
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#660 - 2015-03-24 16:00:49 UTC
I dunno. I think there's a great deal of paranoia involved here that sometimes can be merited but not always.
Basil's posts seem to drip with worst case scenarios and an overwhelming 'can't win, don't try' attitude. Now, if one's been stomped on many times over this can be understandable.

On the other hand, it's definitely not healthy. Just because there is a counter to everything does not mean that everything you try will be countered. Just as often as you make the mistake of bringing a sword to a gunfight, others are just as prone to making mistakes of their own. By sequestering yourself from harm in fear of loss, you also rob yourself of learning opportunities that can only be gained by losing. In addition, you also are seriously limiting your ability to make new friends in the game. I know it's weird, but in EVE violence can be an amazing social ice breaker. I've met some really cool people who absolutely stomped the crap out of me. I've also met a like number of cool people out of the ranks of those whom I've stomped.

This is a conflict oriented game. Without conflict the market would go to shite faster than you can warp an inty to the next gate. I'm not saying go apeshit and kill everything... I'm not even suggesting that everyone go out and have themselves a nice war. What I am saying is that by putting yourself out there and exposing yourself *wheeee* to the big black can have positive consequences as well as negative. That guy landing on grid with violent intent could very well become your wingmate in the future.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.