These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

why do players stay in npc corps?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#601 - 2015-03-20 11:22:10 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

He is made useless by mechanics preventing any usefulness below certain amount of SP, that I named "SP wall".
To make matters worse, "SP wall" grows every year, so if you're not gaining SP, you may also become useless, even if you weren't before. It also ensures that if you gain SP slower than the next guy, you will stay useless and locked out of combat pvp (edge case scenarios aside, you will always reliably die to SP wall) forever.

That's the nature of that sandbox game called EVE. Combat pvp niche is occupied, you may become content or have better luck next game, sucks to be below 105 million SP.


To any new player reading this, the entire quoted post is an enormous lie.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#602 - 2015-03-20 13:16:22 UTC
And look at the conspiracy theories fly.

Hey guys, turns out that new players, or anyone without 105million skillpoints, isn't actually effective at the game.

That's just a lie told by everyone in the game... for the past decade.

He actually finds this easier to believe than the truth that new players and low skillpoint pilots can be effective. Meanwhile, I find it hard to believe that anyone can actually be that bad at EVE.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#603 - 2015-03-20 13:31:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
The hilarious thing is its opinions like Basil's that prove the danger of NPC corps. Opinions like his are poisonous, because not only are they his own, but every time he utters them, they have the very real chance of infecting some wide-eyed newbie, and outright murdering his enthusiasm for the game, which might not just drive them away, but lead them to repeat the lie to others.

These are the people that clog up NPC corp chat, who when some hopeful, enthusiastic player pipes up asking how they go in to nullsec, how they attack another player, or anything of the like, get told they can't. Not only do they get told they can't, but they get told that anyone who says they can is lying to them, and just wants to either lure them in to a trap, or use them as cannon-fodder (look, its an evil Goonie, CODEie alt!). Sure, that happens from time to time, but I would lay money on the odds that more players walk away because they believe some "veterans" lies about a sp wall, than those who leap in and suffer an accident at another players hands.

There is a reason groups like us, TEST, and Brave, which have massively higher retention rates than the norm for the game as a whole, get our newbies the hell out of that environment as fast as humanly possible.

That's the arguement for killing NPC corps. Not taking away a newbie playground, there has got to be a space for newbies to find their feet before they get shot out from under them, but to flush the bitter residue out that poisons and taints the new blood coming in.

I know all this first hand. I waited til I was "tall enough to ride" (I was at 15mil sp before I left high) before getting in to the rest of the game, and I quit twice before going to hell with it, and taking the leap, and I knew immediately what a foolish mistake I had made waiting so long.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#604 - 2015-03-20 13:39:23 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:

There is a reason groups like us, TEST, and Brave, which have massively higher retention rates than the norm for the game as a whole, get our newbies the hell out of that environment as fast as humanly possible.


Bingo. And that's what this is all about.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#605 - 2015-03-20 13:45:45 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
The hilarious thing is its opinions like Basil's that prove the danger of NPC corps. Opinions like his are poisonous, because not only are they his own, but every time he utters them, they have the very real chance of infecting some wide-eyed newbie, and outright murdering his enthusiasm for the game, which might not just drive them away, but lead them to repeat the lie to others.

These are the people that clog up NPC corp chat, who when some hopeful, enthusiastic player pipes up asking how they go in to nullsec, how they attack another player, or anything of the like, get told they can't. Not only do they get told they can't, but they get told that anyone who says they can is lying to them, and just wants to either lure them in to a trap, or use them as cannon-fodder. Sure, that happens from time to time, but I would lay money on the odds that more players walk away because they believe some "veterans" lies about a sp wall, than those who leap in and suffer an accident at another players hands.

There is a reason groups like us, TEST, and Brave, which have massively higher retention rates than the norm for the game as a whole, get our newbies the hell out of that environment as fast as humanly possible.

I know all this first hand. I waited til I was "tall enough to ride" (I was at 15mil sp before I left high) before getting in to the rest of the game, and I quit twice before going to hell with it, and taking the leap, and I knew immediately what a foolish mistake I had made waiting so long.


They almost did it to me.

The guy who introduced me to the game was great, we played another game together (he also introduced me to WoW but i don't hold that against him lol). He got me into a high sec mission running corp ran by a real life boyfriend/girlfriend team and they were nice people.

But they had that "I'll go to null when I'm ready" mentality and for my 1st year I was scared to DEATH of the idea of leaving high sec. My total 1st year pvp experience was having my rifter blown up by a Brutix in low sec (dude gave me all my loot back) and a couple of Roams with my buddy who had friends in BoB (my second pvp death was in a Brutix, blow up by an IRC gang that included the 1st Carrier I ever laid eyes on).

A short while later, CCP made faction warfare and i got into that and a few months later went to null with a group I met in faction warfare and i didn't have a lot of SP (i didn't even train my character for much of that time).

It was FUN. All I could do was mentally kick myself for listening to those 'nice but ignorant' high sec folks, I missed out of probably months of fun because of them (or rather because of my own stupidity in not knowing who to listen to)..
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#606 - 2015-03-20 14:38:25 UTC
Awesome! Turns out that Mike Azariah, newly elected to CSM X, has been operating a program to get newbies more engaged by leading them on what sounds like the sort of NPSI fieldtrips I've been advocating here.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=392189&find=unread

He states:
Quote:
I started the project because of the This Is Eve video influx but it has grown legs and is now carrying me wildly forward. I am hanging on and enjoying the ride.


IMO, THIS is the sort of thing we need to get newbies engaged with the game and the player base. No some 50% NPC corp tax or the like.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#607 - 2015-03-20 14:51:32 UTC
i am firmly opposed to newbies enjoying any sort of entertainment until they've spent a minimum of one year doing highsec missions or three years mining which is why i tell them they can't pvp without fighter-bombers V
Reislier
#608 - 2015-03-20 15:35:22 UTC
so.. 31 pages in and the question by the op remains unanswered.

Speculation.. all of it.. because there is no answer to the question. Everyone do as they do for many reason but the vocal few have all figured out. as always when this topic come up.. I have seen this debate a dozen times over years and always the same.. new faces.. same arguments.. all of it speculation because no one really understand at all why people play as they play. least of all CCP or they would have fixed long ago.. actually.. I think they do know.. but you people would not like answer.. instead of speculation.. look at actions in game.. is all there to see if you look.

and now as usual.. discussion becomes heated and the only real pvp in Eve begins to make appearance.

how typical of this place.. I predict lock will be soon.

Be nice. If nice not work, be civil. If civil not work, beat with iron pipe till bloody and still.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#609 - 2015-03-20 15:51:01 UTC
Reislier wrote:
Speculation.. all of it.. because there is no answer to the question. Everyone do as they do for many reason but the vocal few have all figured out. as always when this topic come up.. I have seen this debate a dozen times over years and always the same.. new faces.. same arguments.. all of it speculation because no one really understand at all why people play as they play. least of all CCP or they would have fixed long ago..

Everything quoted is extremely valid.
Everything you said beyond that point, just added your own personal speculation to the conversation.

There is a reason that there are many stories of psychologists and the like finding Eve intriguing. Even with as much as we know about human psychology, no two minds function the exact same on every level. Since Eve doesn't go the route of the standard fare MMO, and allows players to make their own choices with either knowledge or self-induced ignorance of the varying consequences, it makes for one hell of an interesting laboratory environment.

The fact is, we don't know why player X does Y, while player A does B, outside of what they say. What they say may not be true either. They may even be lying to themselves. We just don't know.

All we really can follow, is trends in data in response to varying stimuli. Unfortunately, there isn't a single person in this thread who has access to that kind of data.

Thus, we have two options: speculation, or silence.
BravoPrime
Garoun Investment Bank
#610 - 2015-03-20 23:24:10 UTC
Players stay in Nov cops for one reason. CODE
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#611 - 2015-03-20 23:53:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
BravoPrime wrote:
Players stay in Nov cops for one reason. CODE

Ganking is not limited to players in player run Corps only, so your view is intriguing.

Why would staying in an NPC Corp provide you protection from CODE?

Aside from that question, if players are staying in NPC Corps because of a belief that this somehow protects them from CODE, then hopefully CCP can overcome that with changes they make, because it's clear that CCP believe that social activity: joining Corps, using the market and contract system, pvping, etc. is the best way to improve the chance that a player will stay within the game.

With CCP Rise's work on the NPE, I expect there to be more focus on things like using the market and contracts, getting involved in industry and other PVE activities that encourage interaction with other players activities; and hopefully also in encouraging players to move to player-run Corps because it ends up being what they want to do; and where they can also get involved in the social aspects around pvp easier.
Gardav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#612 - 2015-03-21 01:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Gardav
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I want you to very explicitly describe the process you are claiming happens and the attributes of an NPC corp specifically that drive that process.

You stated the NPE pushes people into PvE, which I can agree with, but that says nothing of NPC corps. The NPE could be gutted without touching the NPC corps. So how do they, the corps, specifically feed into this. I need to know how that works, not just what you claim the ends are, to make sense of this.


Are you serious?

Okay, laid out for you:

NPC corps are immune to wars.

Therefore, they attract people who do not want to engage in any PvP or player interaction in general.

These people, whose whole reason for being in an NPC corp is to avoid player interaction, are the first people that newbies see, the first group they get to interact with.

Get it yet?


If I may respond to your statements here I would appreciate the opportunity to add to the discussion on points you raised. ( I am also a bonafide real NPC Corp Player. All my characters are in NPC Corps.)

Do you know WHY some of us are "anti-social" as you call it in EVE?

Because of past interactions with Players in Corps like CODE and similar Corps, as well as Wardec Corps of Industrial Corps that view everyone as a threat in Hi-Sec. CCP lost subscription money from me because of Corps like CODE. I am not blaming you specifically, just the Corp type and focus, the general "gameplay style" choice.

Some of us are not here playing EVE because we want to fight in PvP or join Alliances that seek to gain control of most of Null Sec, rather we actually dislike those kinds of activities and focus, even though that is why CCP made EVE.. We play EVE because it is a great Space Simulation, because CCP has done a very good job at creating a believable and enjoyable virtual space experience, and it has thousands of other Players to share that experience with When and If we choose to do so. We play to fly Space Ships and enjoy this virtual Space CCP has made.

I'm not interested in looking for a replacement for EVE because of the PvP features because there is no replacement for EVE. If I want this kind of awesome virtual space experience I need to "fly in New Eden.The only way to un-attract me from EVE is to take away 50% or more of the artistic beauty of EVE and gut it's feature list, in essence making it akin to other cheap games that attempted to create a Space game and failed. Remove NPC Corps all together if you wish that will not force me to leave EVE, nor will that entice me to join a Player Corp.

In the past Players that claim what you do, and that acted on their claims, made my experience of EVE enough of a headache that I unsubscribed for months, even years. CCP lost money and I lost time in a game I love. I have been a customer of EVE since 2004, but it wasn't EVE I disliked, it was some of the Players I did not interact well with because of differences in why Players play EVE. I no longer join any Player Corps simply because it's too difficult to find other like minded Players that aren't lying through their teeth because their a spy alt and other such nonsense. EVE Online and all the Freedom it gives also is the biggest reason not to be Social, because in EVE being Social is an open invite to others to "Play" you.

I am going to say that again for clarification: It is NOT CCP that "encouraged" me to un-subscribe from a game I enjoy, it was some of the Players themselves, especially Players in Corps like CODE, the Miner Hunters, participants in Hulkaggedon events, etc. (I am not trying to break forum posting rules here, it's just aweful hard for me to say what I wish to say without being specific)

There are some good trustworthy People that Play EVE, People I would love to be a member of a Corp with, but this game attracts many who aren't trustworthy. I have batted ZERO in my attempts to find a Corp that I agree with so I nolonger look. CCP would have to completely change the focus of EVE to fix that problem. I personally think that's why only 10% find a home in a Corp and 40% stay in NPC corps. My opinion of course.

CCP can take out the NPC Corps, they can alter and adjust the NPE all they want, but the truth from my point of view is that some of us simply do not get along with some other Players (socially) because of differences in why we play EVE and how we play it, and especially the ethics we use while we play it, and that is not something CCP can fix without destroying what EVE IS. Changing EVE to Suit me or to suit any particular group could ruin EVE in the long term and I don't want to see that happen so I don't ask for changes.

The benefits of Freedom in a Sandbox outweigh the loss of Ships and ISK when I am attacked without provocation. The Freedom to NOT join a Player Corp and the Freedom to NOT attack others ingame are as important to me as the Freedom for others to Attack me without provocation is to them. I share this MMO with everyone but that does not mean I have to play it like others want me to.

See you all in Space... no matter what happens.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#613 - 2015-03-21 04:30:41 UTC
BravoPrime wrote:
Players stay in Nov cops for one reason. CODE



You don't need a wardec to suicide gank.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#614 - 2015-03-21 06:22:10 UTC
Why is this thread even still open? It's long since devolved into whining, flaming and trolling.

People stay in NPC corps for their own reasons and that's justification enough.

Can we just close this stale old book now, please?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Thora Zhubilai
Bluenose Corporation
#615 - 2015-03-21 11:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Thora Zhubilai
I think some here are using the terms "PvP" or "Player Interaction" in a small minded way....in reallity they mean Pew pew!

As far i know:
Mining,
Reprocessing and Producing,
Trading,
Hauling,
Missioning...
...are also PvP.

So, what's the problem some have....
It's a sandbox, and you (or i) can do what ever you (i) want to do.

No!
what ever will be changed, never i go join a fleet for a "Pew Pew Party".
And NO i don't need any kind of "Spacelord" above me wich's telling me, what i have to do, what ship, fitting i have to use.
I don't need a Alliance wich look's like the old Sowjetunion, with "Forbidden Zones" and similar Crap.

I went in null for 14 months and be happy to have leave it.

That's the Freedom of a sandbox.

You can come and blow up my ship...i have no problems with.
What you not will get is a Fight.

.....

"If you go after me
warn your police
that I'll be unarmed
and that they can shoot."

Hi all!
Malcaz
Omni Paradox Securities
#616 - 2015-03-21 11:46:39 UTC
It is tiresome to see people in eve online always try to dictate how other people must be playing... It is a sandbox game, every way of playing the game is as legitimate as other ones.
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#617 - 2015-03-21 11:47:57 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Beats me why players who are NOT members of NPC corporations post in this thread.


Hey, we all have alts =p
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#618 - 2015-03-21 11:50:06 UTC
Gardav wrote:

Do you know WHY some of us are "anti-social" as you call it in EVE? *snip*


While that might be your case in particular, CCP disagrees that it's a widespread issue.

If you find it so objectionable to be shot at in a PvP game, that simply can't be helped. But do not try to claim it's the general rule, as so many carebears before you have done so dishonestly. Because it quite simply isn't true.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Malcaz
Omni Paradox Securities
#619 - 2015-03-21 12:01:51 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Not only do they get told they can't, but they get told that anyone who says they can is lying to them, and just wants to either lure them in to a trap, or use them as cannon-fodder (look, its an evil Goonie, CODEie alt!).
Goons would never do anything like this such as with recruitment scams. Never.
Gardav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#620 - 2015-03-21 14:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gardav
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Gardav wrote:

Do you know WHY some of us are "anti-social" as you call it in EVE? *snip*


While that might be your case in particular, CCP disagrees that it's a widespread issue.

If you find it so objectionable to be shot at in a PvP game, that simply can't be helped. But do not try to claim it's the general rule, as so many carebears before you have done so dishonestly. Because it quite simply isn't true.


I used the words "I" and "myself" several times in my post. I tried my best to emphasize that I was speaking from my own experiences. I admit I could have worded the sentence you quoted more accurately.

I have also had a handful of real life friends try out EVE and all of them quit for exactly the reasons I mentioned; Too much unwanted "interaction" from other Players. None of them will return to EVE even though I have tried talking them into it. The numbers CCP released also speak to this phenomena that only 10% join Player Corps and 40% avoid Player Corps for whatever reason.... what's the number one common denominator here? In my opinion, Players and Player Corps are the prime variable.

What do the 10% do or where are they at the 40% want to avoid? To me it all goes back by several paths to the 10% Players themselves.When that many Players are avoiding the intended gameplay of a MMO then there's probably very good reasons why the 40%ers are avoiding that intended gameplay.

CCP, no matter how hard they try, won't ever know with any certainty why Player quit because in general customers are seldom honest why they stop using a product. That is a common problem in real life commerce. It's not surprising to me that CCP and I don't share the same opinions on this.

also, If my comments resonate so soundly with the comments of others that play the game in a similar fashion as I do maybe there is a reason why that is so? Trust me, I am not collaborating with any other Players in EVE on this thread, my comments are mine and mine alone.

I have nothing against you Kaarous Aldurald. Your gameplay style and your Corps mission are just as valid as anyone else's. We just see this problem from different sides and we may possibly never agree on what the solution should be. When I said Players in Corps such as your own were the primary reason why I quit EVE it wasn't because I am on a Witch Hunt, I pointed it out to show how Players with different gameplay styles can adversely affect other Players in a Sandbox MMO, and in particular this MMO.

For the record... I have no problem being shot AT. I expect it. I stay at my keyboard for when it does happen. Why I play EVE the way I do is my choice. I don't tell you that you have to stop what you're doing and or how you should do it. Your Free Will in EVE is your own as is mine. If you want to shoot at a Miner working a asteroid belt then look me up, at least then my situational awareness will be put to good use.

See You in Space.