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why do players stay in npc corps?

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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#301 - 2015-03-15 03:08:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Niobe Song wrote:
Why do NPC corps bother people so much?


Their risk/reward ratio is hugely skewed.



You are in hi-sec killing players who don't fight back vs being in low or null fighting other pvp players.

You should be the last one to talk about risk.

Its obvious you are risk averse.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#302 - 2015-03-15 03:17:05 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:

You are in hi-sec killing players who don't fight back vs being in low or null fighting other pvp players.

You should be the last one to talk about risk.

Its obvious you are risk averse.


I wasn't aware that people we wardec are forbidden from shooting back. My level of risk is theirs to dictate, after all. Their failure in that regard belongs solely to them.

And heck, if you're talking about ganking, there is no riskier profession. Neg tens can be shot by literally anyone without recourse.

Such projection from you. Here you are arguing that risk should be taken away, and saying that disagreement is itself risk averse. Do you think anyone will fall for that lie?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#303 - 2015-03-15 03:20:25 UTC
Niobe Song wrote:
Why do NPC corps bother people so much? If it is just the fact that the people you wardec can jump to a NPC corp to avoid you then shouldn't you be going after that specific mechanic? Or look at wardec as a whole?

What about me being forced out of an NPC corp would make your game play experience more enjoyable?
NPC corp + high sec + veterans = high ISK for lowest risk = economic impacts with farmed items.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#304 - 2015-03-15 03:24:57 UTC
Personally.

1) I'm afraid joining a corp would create a bigger sense of obligation to Eve than I have time for. I've spent a lot of time on Eve, but it's exactly when I want to -- not when I have to show up for my bros or CTA.

2) I play Eve for intellectual challenge,in game goals and entertainment. I have a family and social circle so I'm not seeking to expand that through a game. (Although I think it's a great way for people that do - only downside is that it can be fleeting)

3) Because I don't have to. There are still plenty of things I want to do in the game that I can do by myself and my alts.

4) No drama. I don't have to deal with immature players, self-important jerks, blowhards or key individuals disappearing leaving the corp in disarray.


The last thing I want is for Eve to insist that I join a corp for my own good.





Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#305 - 2015-03-15 03:33:15 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Caladin Brood wrote:
why? ok case in point, i decided to try a new char out an joined a brand new corp, social blah de blah

boom wardec
boom wardec
boom wardec
boom wardec
boom wardec
boom wardec
boom wardec
boom wardec
boom wardec
boom wardec

make of it as you will, but to put it simply, to retain new players this needs to stop

Sorry you had 10 wardecs like that, but they aren't that bad.

If you are in the right Corp, they are easily managed and everyone continues to have fun.

Wardecs aren't something to be scared of or ticked off about. The worst that happens is a lost ship and pod, both of which are expendable tools in this game anyway. But that can mostly be avoided in a good Corp.


If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#306 - 2015-03-15 03:35:42 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum.


Never heard of the Griffon, I take it? Most wardec corps are pretty little, so even a relatively small corp can have numbers on them, and ewar leverages numbers better than almost anything else you can do in highsec.

Yes, there are things you can do when decced. Just because they don't constitute being able to ignore wardecs completely doesn't mean it's not a viable way to do it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#307 - 2015-03-15 03:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum.

Yeah, a collection of new players forming a Corp in highsec is not a great idea, but not because of the risk of loss. Simply because they are unlikely to know how to manage the wardec so they can still have fun.

Being new doesn't mean you are just cannon fodder. It's relatively easy for a new player, even during a war, to continue to have fun playing the game, even in highsec.

I don't know what playing with a half dozen alts would be like personally.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#308 - 2015-03-15 03:41:03 UTC
Niobe Song wrote:
Why do NPC corps bother people so much? If it is just the fact that the people you wardec can jump to a NPC corp to avoid you then shouldn't you be going after that specific mechanic? Or look at wardec as a whole?

What about me being forced out of an NPC corp would make your game play experience more enjoyable?


Folk don't like the idea of there being any place in the game where they aren't allowed, or rather where it is mechanically very difficult, to blow up other people's ships. Especially when the people who gravitate to those areas tend to fly needlessly expensive things and react badly to their being exploded. I feel this myself when I ship scan a 3 month old toon in a faction fit Vindicator with 8x Fed Navy railguns. I sympathize. But I think its good for the game to have somewhere thats not a free fire zone, especially when EVE pvp basically comes down to SP and blobbing, with an occasional dash of FC competence.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#309 - 2015-03-15 03:46:44 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum.

Yeah, a collection of new players forming a Corp in highsec is not a great idea, but not because of the risk of loss. Simply because they are unlikely to know how to manage the wardec so they can still have fun.

Being new doesn't mean you are just cannon fodder. It's relatively easy for a new player, even during a war, to continue to have fun playing the game, even in highsec.


You can't undock a wardecced toon without instantly popping up on someone's watchlist, assuming your dockup station doesn't already have a neutral scout babysitting. Even then the cycle of watchlist ping > locator agent > neutral eyes pinpoint target > gank proteus vs tech 1 barge or BC takes all of 15 minutes assuming they aren't missioning in Outer Mongolia.

I agree there's alot of people running corps who aren't up to it but that's not gonna change unless corp startup requirements do.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2015-03-15 03:49:48 UTC

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Niobe Song wrote:
Why do NPC corps bother people so much?


Their risk/reward ratio is hugely skewed.


As a person in an NPC corp, I would agree with this assessment. However, in EVE, if the risk/reward benefit is hugely skewed for something could you really blame someone for choosing it? It would be foolish not to.

Wardecs and NPC corps need to be fixed, no question. Social corps and Awox buttons are not the way.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#311 - 2015-03-15 03:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
You can't undock a wardecced toon without instantly popping up on someone's watchlist, assuming your dockup station doesn't already have a neutral scout babysitting. Even then the cycle of watchlist ping > locator agent > neutral eyes pinpoint target > gank proteus vs tech 1 barge or BC takes all of 15 minutes assuming they aren't missioning in Outer Mongolia.

I agree there's alot of people running corps who aren't up to it but that's not gonna change unless corp startup requirements do.

I wish I was that important that wardec Corps were spending that much energy trying to disrupt my gameplay. Unfortunately, like 99.9% of other players, I'm not.

Just applying some simple methods and common sense makes it easy to continue to have fun in highsec during a wardec. Highsec is pretty big and wardec Corps and mercs usually have multiple wars active. They are easy to avoid if that's what you want to do.

We seem to have drifted off topic though. There are other threads on wardecs that this could be continued in though. Happy to do so.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#312 - 2015-03-15 04:04:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum.


Never heard of the Griffon, I take it? Most wardec corps are pretty little, so even a relatively small corp can have numbers on them, and ewar leverages numbers better than almost anything else you can do in highsec.

Yes, there are things you can do when decced. Just because they don't constitute being able to ignore wardecs completely doesn't mean it's not a viable way to do it.


Once again, if highsec newbie corps were filled with players who understand pvp tactics and fleet doctrines, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#313 - 2015-03-15 04:06:59 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Once again, if highsec newbie corps were filled with players who understand pvp tactics and fleet doctrines, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


And?

Are you suggesting that they simply be immune? Or that they should be able to win when playing the game incorrectly?

It seems fairly simple to me. New players need to be taught, not by one another obviously. Why should a corp unsuitable for this do well? If they are weeded out, it leaves more room for the worthwhile corps to recruit.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#314 - 2015-03-15 04:07:30 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
You can't undock a wardecced toon without instantly popping up on someone's watchlist, assuming your dockup station doesn't already have a neutral scout babysitting. Even then the cycle of watchlist ping > locator agent > neutral eyes pinpoint target > gank proteus vs tech 1 barge or BC takes all of 15 minutes assuming they aren't missioning in Outer Mongolia.

I agree there's alot of people running corps who aren't up to it but that's not gonna change unless corp startup requirements do.

I wish I was that important that wardec Corps were spending that much energy trying to disrupt my gameplay. Unfortunately, like 99.9% of other players, I'm not.

Just applying some simple methods and common sense makes it easy to continue to have fun in highsec during a wardec. Highsec is pretty big and wardec Corps and mercs usually have multiple wars active. They are easy to avoid if that's what you want to do.

We seem to have drifted off topic though. There are other threads on wardecs that this could be continued in though. Happy to do so.


It's not that hard to run a locator and move a neutral scout around in a frig on your second monitor. Especially if you know your target is a dumbass who doesn't understand how game of alts works or what locators do.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#315 - 2015-03-15 04:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
It's not that hard to run a locator and move a neutral scout around in a frig on your second monitor. Especially if you know your target is a dumbass who doesn't understand how game of alts works or what locators do.

Of course it's not hard, but we just aren't that important on an individual level either.

New players joining new player Corps are going to struggle. I agree with you that it would be good if there were some minimum requirements to start a Corp. That would result in a lot of change in the view of wardecs.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#316 - 2015-03-15 04:16:15 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
It's not that hard to run a locator and move a neutral scout around in a frig on your second monitor. Especially if you know your target is a dumbass who doesn't understand how game of alts works or what locators do.

Of course it's not hard, but we just aren't that important on an individual level either.

New players joining nee player Corps are going to struggle. I agree with you that it would be good if there were some minimum requirements to start a Corp. That would result in a lot of change in the view of wardecs.


Bingo. A lot of the problems with "new player corps" is that the bar is set so low for corp creation. It trivializes the mechanic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#317 - 2015-03-15 04:16:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Once again, if highsec newbie corps were filled with players who understand pvp tactics and fleet doctrines, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


And?

Are you suggesting that they simply be immune? Or that they should be able to win when playing the game incorrectly?

It seems fairly simple to me. New players need to be taught, not by one another obviously. Why should a corp unsuitable for this do well? If they are weeded out, it leaves more room for the worthwhile corps to recruit.


Who's to do the teaching if all the bittervets are busy farming them for stats?

I think some sort of tweak to the wardec system that disincentivizes deccing corps low in SP and assets would solve the problem.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2015-03-15 04:27:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
It's not that hard to run a locator and move a neutral scout around in a frig on your second monitor. Especially if you know your target is a dumbass who doesn't understand how game of alts works or what locators do.

Of course it's not hard, but we just aren't that important on an individual level either.

New players joining nee player Corps are going to struggle. I agree with you that it would be good if there were some minimum requirements to start a Corp. That would result in a lot of change in the view of wardecs.


Bingo. A lot of the problems with "new player corps" is that the bar is set so low for corp creation. It trivializes the mechanic.


Set the bar as high as you like you'll still have old characters with only pve experience and no leadership skills to speak of starting corps, recruiting a bunch of likeminded players and newbs, getting obliterated in a cascade of wardecs and doing the same thing again a few months down the road.

It would be nice if the bittervets would make a conscious decision to challenge themselves instead of going after the easy targets, but risk-aversion is just as ingrained in their playstyle as it is in that of the "carebears."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#319 - 2015-03-15 05:01:36 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Who's to do the teaching if all the bittervets are busy farming them for stats?


Oh puh-leez.

Of all of the mid-high skillpoint players in highsec right now, I very much doubt than even 10% of them are in wardec corps. It's probably lower than that.


Quote:

I think some sort of tweak to the wardec system that disincentivizes deccing corps low in SP and assets would solve the problem.


And I think that CCP themselves have stated that non consensual PvP has no ramifications on player retention.

And that taking player freedom away to serve the purely theoretical purpose of "helping newbies" is disingenuous at best.

Quote:

It would be nice if the bittervets would make a conscious decision to challenge themselves instead of going after the easy targets, but risk-aversion is just as ingrained in their playstyle as it is in that of the "carebears."


And here you are mischaracterizing the motives of people you don't like.

If you hadn't yet figured this out, far more people do the former, than the latter. Ever heard of Eve University? RvB?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#320 - 2015-03-15 07:02:34 UTC
Yzar Soikutsu wrote:
I am not in a corp because corps of 1 or 2 players just declare war on our corp everytime we are in jita or other high traffic areas in the hope of getting easy kills.

Don't be an easy kill?

Example: great way to get frequent wardecs is to AFK in a freighter.