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why do players stay in npc corps?

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#221 - 2015-03-14 01:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Basil Pupkin wrote:
we should call it what it is - a grief dec.


EVE is a PvP game.

PvP is, by definition, not griefing.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Madd Adda
#222 - 2015-03-14 03:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
we should call it what it is - a grief dec.


EVE is a PvP game.

PvP is, by definition, not griefing.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal..


no, EVE a sandbox that ALLOWS pvp. big difference.

Carebear extraordinaire
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#223 - 2015-03-14 03:43:45 UTC
It can be modified to a sandbox that disallows various types of "pvp"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#224 - 2015-03-14 05:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
we should call it what it is - a grief dec.


EVE is a PvP game.

PvP is, by definition, not griefing.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.



Eve is a sandbox. Where all play styles are allowed.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2015-03-14 05:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Syn Shi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
EVE is a PvP game.
Eve is a sandbox. Where all play styles are allowed.


Actually he's right. EVE is player vs. player. Everything you do in the game is player vs. player. The play style where player vs. player is unwanted or undesired is not something that the game design encourages. There is no activity in the game where PVP is disallowed.

Edit: fixed quote tags

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
soicanforumpostsafely
Doomheim
#226 - 2015-03-14 05:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: soicanforumpostsafely
Sibyyl wrote:

Actually he's right. EVE is player vs. player. Everything you do in the game is player vs. player. The play style where player vs. player is unwanted or undesired is not something that the game design encourages. There is no activity in the game where PVP is disallowed.


Indeed, even players who claim they don't want PVP are competing against other players in HS for resources for the price of their mission loot and on and on. When that mission runner who claims they don't want to PVP undercuts someone .01 isk in the market they are engaging in PVP. That is a mechanic I would rather see changed than HS war-decs, there should be a mechanic that requires your desired price to buy or sell be at least some percentage different of the current best price by an average market price or the same price. .01 isk price competition is BS. I avoid giving .01 iskers my business.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#227 - 2015-03-14 05:23:38 UTC
Uh-oh...Alice in Wonderland logic spotted.
soicanforumpostsafely
Doomheim
#228 - 2015-03-14 05:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: soicanforumpostsafely
tru nuff but my point is really that there are more annoying things in the game mechanics than the constant tears over HS war-decs. I hear more complaints in rookie help from rookies about their items not ever selling when they put in a better price to sell than about war-decs. In fact, I never hear a rookie in rookie help complaining about war-decs. The only time it is brought up is by vets.
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#229 - 2015-03-14 05:44:32 UTC


soicanforumpostsafely wrote:


.01 isk price competition is BS.



I, too, decry every competitive tactic I have no remedy for.


To gehenna to all those who play the game too well. Cast them out to exile!


Call me Joe.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#230 - 2015-03-14 05:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Madd Adda wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
we should call it what it is - a grief dec.


EVE is a PvP game.

PvP is, by definition, not griefing.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


no, EVE a sandbox that ALLOWS pvp. big difference.


No, EVE is a PvP game.

The freaking FAQ says as much. There is no argument about this, no debate. EVE is a PvP game first, last, and always.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#231 - 2015-03-14 05:57:47 UTC
But if we don't fight for it, how are we to be assured of having enough sand to make our sand castles? I mean other people are using up bunches of sand and sometimes it gets hard to come by. Should sand hoarders be compelled to redistribute their sand so everyone has an equal amount? That doesn't seem really fair to me, as they got their sand by being crafty and knowing how the sand box operates.... but still, I mean there's only so much sand in the box, right?
I'm sure I had a point at some point, but I just cannot for the life of me remember it.
Something something PVP maybe.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2015-03-14 05:58:40 UTC
Should make the cost of a wardec inversely proportional to the member count and total SP of a corp.

Deccing large, high SP corps becomes cheaper while deccing small or low SP corps becomes less profitable. I think one of the CSM candidates associated with the merc community actually suggested something similar.

Would require some interesting maths to fine tune. Maybe factor in assets aswell?
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2015-03-14 06:04:58 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
But if we don't fight for it, how are we to be assured of having enough sand to make our sand castles? I mean other people are using up bunches of sand and sometimes it gets hard to come by. Should sand hoarders be compelled to redistribute their sand so everyone has an equal amount? That doesn't seem really fair to me, as they got their sand by being crafty and knowing how the sand box operates.... but still, I mean there's only so much sand in the box, right?
I'm sure I had a point at some point, but I just cannot for the life of me remember it.
Something something PVP maybe.


Well, you could argue that some people get their sand by playing for a really long time and investing the effort and real world money to have a vast collection of alts distributed across multiple accounts running on 3-4 monitors in order to minimize the risk to their sand castle and give them a greater ability to break other peoples' without having to actually rely on other human beings.

You could then have a discussion about exactly how much investment in alts and excessive gaming hardware should be required to be competitive, with some unfavorable comparisons to EA thrown in.

But EVE is the fantasy refuge of manchildren who want to roleplay Ayn Rand characters, so I don't foresee that discussion being overly productive.
Madd Adda
#234 - 2015-03-14 06:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
we should call it what it is - a grief dec.


EVE is a PvP game.

PvP is, by definition, not griefing.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
.


no, EVE a sandbox that ALLOWS pvp. big difference.


No, EVE is a PvP game.

The freaking FAQ says as much. There is no argument about this, no debate. EVE is a PvP game first, last, and always.


that a load of bologna. mining has no pvp in of itself, production in a station has no pvp, playing the market within a station has no pvp. There's more but you get the point. EVE isn't a PVP game, it's a sandbox with a big pvp aspect.

i wonder what FAQ you got that from though, because the FAQs read from CCP, eveolopedia and eve online doesn't indicate it as a pvp game. It regards it as an open ended MMO space sim.

Carebear extraordinaire
Valkin Mordirc
#235 - 2015-03-14 06:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Should make the cost of a wardec inversely proportional to the member count and total SP of a corp.

Deccing large, high SP corps becomes cheaper while deccing small or low SP corps becomes less profitable. I think one of the CSM candidates associated with the merc community actually suggested something similar.

Would require some interesting maths to fine tune. Maybe factor in assets aswell?



I hate this type of logic.

Skillpoints. DO NOT matter.

Skillpoints only open more options for you to use. But 150mil SP vet can still die to a 15mil SP newbrah.

Edit: SP Past 10mil don't matter.
#DeleteTheWeak
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#236 - 2015-03-14 06:59:59 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Should make the cost of a wardec inversely proportional to the member count and total SP of a corp.

Deccing large, high SP corps becomes cheaper while deccing small or low SP corps becomes less profitable. I think one of the CSM candidates associated with the merc community actually suggested something similar.

Would require some interesting maths to fine tune. Maybe factor in assets aswell?



I hate this type of logic.

Skillpoints. DO NOT matter.

Skillpoints only open more options for you to use. But 150mil SP vet can still die to a 15mil SP newbrah.


Skill points don't matter only after a point. Unless you're partaking in fleet activities, in which case you could be flying a laser Megathron and still be a contributing member, for example.

As for the topic, people stay in NPC corps, because other corps are unwelcoming towards them.
Valkin Mordirc
#237 - 2015-03-14 07:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Madd Adda wrote:


that a load of bologna. mining has no pvp in of itself, production in a station has no pvp, playing the market within a station has no pvp. There's more but you get the point. EVE isn't a PVP game, it's a sandbox with a big pvp aspect.

i wonder what FAQ you got that from though, because the FAQs read from CCP, eveolopedia and eve online doesn't indicate it as a pvp game. It regards it as an open ended MMO space sim.



When you produce an item you need Ore, Which if you mine ore you take away from another player who could have mined himself.

When you put something on the market. You undercut other players own sell orders.

That is PvP. Not combat based PvP but PvP


Fixed quoting. ISD Ezwal.
#DeleteTheWeak
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#238 - 2015-03-14 07:06:45 UTC
On the other hand, by staying in NPC corps many players also rob themselves of the opportunity to have other like minded folks help them understand some of the various ways to put the SP they do have to their greatest use.
It's a great deal easier to establish a rapport with possible mentors in a closely knit social environment than to try to do so by shouting into the seething mob.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Valkin Mordirc
#239 - 2015-03-14 07:27:04 UTC
Quote:
EVE is a sandbox game, you are only competing if you want to. You can do whatever you want, you only compete if you try to get profits, but here is the key point - nobody is making you make profits. If you don't make getting more than next guy your goal, you are NOT competing. Therefore, it's a pure sandbox, and it does NOT become "pvp sandbox" just because some overly competitive baboons have made it their goal to pretend to compete with someone who doesn't realize they are being competed against.


Yes EVE is a sandbox. We covered this. But it's a competitive Player Verse Player Sandbox. Yes, You can play "Non Competitively" However But the game is NOT intended to be played this way. Why can't you understand this? Also. Don't call people you don't know Baboons. It makes you seem Arrogant and self-righteous It's a game. Not a moral Crusade.

Quote:
I find this "accepted part of the game" in need of changes, because it is pure griefing and zero content, and should go, like other zero-content things like dumbmode awoxing. Like I were saying, we can keep war decs, just make the grief decs history


Wardec need a change yes. But harassment of other corps in HS should be allowed always. Otherwise the majority of Merc Contracts dry up and it stagnates are core group of the game. Also these 'grief' decs. Make me a profit. People pay me isk to stop shooting at them. If you don't like that. Thats your problem because CCP doesn't seem to think it is.

Also Awoxing, is something I believe should have been kept but we can leave this out of here. *shrugs*

Quote:

Now, the rest of you post was kinda clueless. I did not ask what mercs can do being on the griefing side, that is obvious, even my dog can grief people and deny them a freedom of movement by chasing them into some cover. The question OBVIOUSLY was about what mercs on the DEFENDING side can do.

And there you just go with more blunders on the border of stupidity


Heh. You call people griefers yet you yourself lash out like a rage infested troll.

I can see already my time is wasted. Your no better then Veers, just a hot bag blowing in the wind, mindlessly running circles when confronted with confrontation you don't want to listen to.

Sorry but I was going to respond to you legitimately, but you proven completely to be a waste of my time. And I'm doing this on the clock at work to. *rolls eyes*


Congratz.

Also the Forsaken V PL? No thats one person using an alt to bait with. I know the guy.
#DeleteTheWeak
Serene Repose
#240 - 2015-03-14 08:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
we should call it what it is - a grief dec.


EVE is a PvP game.

PvP is, by definition, not griefing.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
EVE (by definition) is a game with PVP IN IT. We appreciate our reputation turning to internet rumor and myth. However, if you're going to sternly instruct, as it seems is your wont, get your facts straight.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.