These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

why do players stay in npc corps?

First post
Author
Angharad Neve
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2015-03-13 14:04:52 UTC
Givi Oskold wrote:
Well, how about a different perspective on getting rid of NPC corporations. As a new player, it's almost impossible to get into a corporation since we don't show up with 20 mil skill points so we can't fit fleet doctrines or hold our own even in small groups in low sec or null.

Since the bulk of EVE characters seems to be alts for other players (such is the rumor anyway), the lack of trust is also an obstacle since the first thing every one assumes is "spy". That tends to be a problem too.

That's all based on the idea that you can even find a corp to contact since the corp finder is at best weak and what little else there is comes down to random luck if you can actually find somebody interested in taking you on. Good luck with that, because you will definitely need a lot of luck to do it.

If you get into a corp that NOT just the equivalent of a player run NPC corp, all you end up doing is skill training and waiting until a groups will take you on.

As it is, the new player experience is rough but finding a decent corp that offers the chance to actually do something at low skill points is a freakin' nightmare.

Thus, new players tend to sit in NPC corps and train skills while trying to kill the boredom by running slightly less boring missions or scanning for scraps that nobody else will even bother with. Or mining. Mining, because that's a huge draw in the gaming community. :p

I should clarify that I'm not against mining or industry in any way. However, it should be part of the game, not the only thing left that you might be able to do while trying to do something else. However, if you love mining then I tip my hat to you for providing a vital service to the community. o7

NPC corps offer the only other possible social experience in EVE. If you get rid of it, the new player experience consists of getting a ship and being ignored until you have no "game" time left. CCP might just as well delete the trial and subscribe features to the game at that point.

So, like it or not, you NEED those NPC corps just to provide a place for those who aren't anywhere else. It isn't like EVE players greet new players with open arms. Not even close.


EVE University, Brave Newbies, Red vs, Blue, Factional Warfare corps. Just four solutions to your problems.
soicanforumpostsafely
Doomheim
#202 - 2015-03-13 14:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: soicanforumpostsafely
Angharad Neve wrote:
They should make it so you can only be a member of an NPC corp for say one month. After that you have to join a player run corp of your own choice, start your own corp, or get syphoned into a holding corp with same characteristics as a player run corp. Player run corps are more fun anyway. At the very least they usually have less taxes than NPC corps.

Yes, because the sandbox you want should be the sandbox everyone else has to play in.

TBH you could say the same about my view, IMO my view is less restrictive and more open of a sandbox, which of course is IMO better - but won't make it any more or less true.
soicanforumpostsafely
Doomheim
#203 - 2015-03-13 14:12:30 UTC
Angharad Neve wrote:


EVE University, Brave Newbies, Red vs, Blue, Factional Warfare corps. Just four solutions to your problems.

E-UNI was one of my best experiences ever in EVE and likely kept me around longer because of what I learned (and that knowledge probably even keeps me coming back). Though I do wonder now how many corps would view that history negatively nowadays...
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#204 - 2015-03-13 15:05:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Mainly to avoid altering my sandbox with the whims and litter of OP like-minded CEOs.
In an NPC corp there is no schedule, no set game role, no drama, no hierarchy, no obligation, no awoxing etc.
It's a game not a job.

If life inside a Corp is so great you better start wondering why most players need to have at least one NPC corp alt.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Serene Repose
#205 - 2015-03-13 15:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Ahar! Look. When this thread began I said it's because people are following the number one rule of EVE - trust no one.

Even after saying that, look at the avalanche of text that followed. Everyone seems to have their own well-considered logical explanation (most of which condemn the new player) when everyone knows what I said is true. Why? It could
only be for one reason. They're trying to get you to TRUST THEM.

"Come into my parlor," said the spider to the fly.

Don't let them fool you. You can't trust one of the lot.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#206 - 2015-03-13 16:51:48 UTC
Givi Oskold wrote:
Well, how about a different perspective on getting rid of NPC corporations. As a new player, it's almost impossible to get into a corporation since we don't show up with 20 mil skill points so we can't fit fleet doctrines or hold our own even in small groups in low sec or null.

Since the bulk of EVE characters seems to be alts for other players (such is the rumor anyway), the lack of trust is also an obstacle since the first thing every one assumes is "spy". That tends to be a problem too.

That's all based on the idea that you can even find a corp to contact since the corp finder is at best weak and what little else there is comes down to random luck if you can actually find somebody interested in taking you on. Good luck with that, because you will definitely need a lot of luck to do it.

If you get into a corp that NOT just the equivalent of a player run NPC corp, all you end up doing is skill training and waiting until a groups will take you on.

As it is, the new player experience is rough but finding a decent corp that offers the chance to actually do something at low skill points is a freakin' nightmare.

Thus, new players tend to sit in NPC corps and train skills while trying to kill the boredom by running slightly less boring missions or scanning for scraps that nobody else will even bother with. Or mining. Mining, because that's a huge draw in the gaming community. :p

I should clarify that I'm not against mining or industry in any way. However, it should be part of the game, not the only thing left that you might be able to do while trying to do something else. However, if you love mining then I tip my hat to you for providing a vital service to the community. o7

NPC corps offer the only other possible social experience in EVE. If you get rid of it, the new player experience consists of getting a ship and being ignored until you have no "game" time left. CCP might just as well delete the trial and subscribe features to the game at that point.

So, like it or not, you NEED those NPC corps just to provide a place for those who aren't anywhere else. It isn't like EVE players greet new players with open arms. Not even close.


thing is, what you're missing, is that eve is for the mature gamer. The game isn't laid out infornt of you with a path to follow. there aren't progressions you need to follow, your future is not written before you join. Your future in EVE is what you make it. It's down to you to put the effort in. To find that group of people you enjoy spending time with. To learn how to find that group. In short, it's entirely up to you what you do in EVE. The journey is what makes EVE so unique and amazing.

If you don't like putting in effort to find stuff you like doing, or finding people you like. Or if you're not able to do that, then EVE is not a game for you. EVE takes effort, dedication and commitment. But the rewards are epic. 11 years of epic for me, with many different threads.

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#207 - 2015-03-13 17:35:38 UTC
I enjoy being a villain. I'm still learning everyday, but I enjoy hunting and stalking war targets (even if most of them are miners and missioners). I like extortion and the content I create for myself and others. I don't target newbros, nor is it my goal to cause someone to have a bad day. Sure, you just had your faction-fit battleship blown up by my Ishkur and now you're upset. This is EVE! There are causes and effects just like there are choices an consequences. Saying that wardecs drive people to npc corps is a joke. The real reason people leave player corps when wardec'd is something hey can continue to play in their own self-absorbed world where less risk is best risk. I'm not crying that people can shrug off my dec like its nothing... I'm more or less complaining that were playing a unique game where instead of fighting back or takin action in another way, we seek risk-adverse solutions through nerfing what makes eve online so unique.

The new player experience is most definitely a huge obstacle to overcome... There are plenty of options for newbros to learn even among vets. You are looking in the wrong places. I will even put my money where my mouth is:

If you are new, not new, or whatever you consider yourself; and you're looking to learn some of the basics killing stuff that isn't cheap fw ****, then send me a mail.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2015-03-13 17:45:53 UTC
NPC corp is better than a solo corp.

So basically you get no wars and lots of goof balls to chat with for the low low rate of 11%.
I don't have an aversion to player corps, I am just picky.

I can't be a **** with my alt cause some idiot decided to name all his characters the same. Roll
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2015-03-13 18:16:13 UTC
How one dimensional of you. If you think more deeply you'll discover that there are many more reason people have characters in NPC corps... that is unless you are just being deliberately dishonest about it. The chief reason people "quit" eve in an NPC corp is that they have many more than one account. economics, seasonal tasks like education, moving to an NPC corp in preparation to unsubscribe..and more come into play. But the primary reason people stay in an NPC corp is not wardec denial; it's the availability of the large ad free chat community.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
#210 - 2015-03-13 19:33:48 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
I don't think you understand Eve at all sorry.

Give that man an upvote.

Everything's a game if you make it one - Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci

CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase - Frostys Virpio

Niobe Song
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2015-03-13 20:27:47 UTC
Rather than worry about NPC corps maybe CCP should just get rid of wardecs.

You want PvP? You go to null, low sec, or worm hole space or you gank in high sec. None of this ridiculous wardec nonsense.
Syrilian
Doomheim
#212 - 2015-03-13 20:50:46 UTC
Givi Oskold wrote:
Well, how about a different perspective on getting rid of NPC corporations. As a new player, it's almost impossible to get into a corporation since we don't show up with 20 mil skill points so we can't fit fleet doctrines or hold our own even in small groups in low sec or null.

Since the bulk of EVE characters seems to be alts for other players (such is the rumor anyway), the lack of trust is also an obstacle since the first thing every one assumes is "spy". That tends to be a problem too.

That's all based on the idea that you can even find a corp to contact since the corp finder is at best weak and what little else there is comes down to random luck if you can actually find somebody interested in taking you on. Good luck with that, because you will definitely need a lot of luck to do it.

If you get into a corp that NOT just the equivalent of a player run NPC corp, all you end up doing is skill training and waiting until a groups will take you on.

As it is, the new player experience is rough but finding a decent corp that offers the chance to actually do something at low skill points is a freakin' nightmare.

Thus, new players tend to sit in NPC corps and train skills while trying to kill the boredom by running slightly less boring missions or scanning for scraps that nobody else will even bother with. Or mining. Mining, because that's a huge draw in the gaming community. :p

I should clarify that I'm not against mining or industry in any way. However, it should be part of the game, not the only thing left that you might be able to do while trying to do something else. However, if you love mining then I tip my hat to you for providing a vital service to the community. o7

NPC corps offer the only other possible social experience in EVE. If you get rid of it, the new player experience consists of getting a ship and being ignored until you have no "game" time left. CCP might just as well delete the trial and subscribe features to the game at that point.

So, like it or not, you NEED those NPC corps just to provide a place for those who aren't anywhere else. It isn't like EVE players greet new players with open arms. Not even close.



I joined a corp about a week after signing up, and the only reason it took me that long is because I waited a week to join a corp. Once I started looking it took me like maybe 2 hours? I had less than 1m SP.
Valkin Mordirc
#213 - 2015-03-13 20:54:23 UTC
Niobe Song wrote:
Rather than worry about NPC corps maybe CCP should just get rid of wardecs.

You want PvP? You go to null, low sec, or worm hole space or you gank in high sec. None of this ridiculous wardec nonsense.



Join a proper High-sec corp and you don't have to worry about Wardecs.

Merc are not there to hurt you, we're here to protect you at a modest fee.
#DeleteTheWeak
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#214 - 2015-03-13 22:26:47 UTC
Niobe Song wrote:
Rather than worry about NPC corps maybe CCP should just get rid of wardecs.

You want PvP? You go to null, low sec, or worm hole space or you gank in high sec. None of this ridiculous wardec nonsense.

That won't solve anything. It doesn't matter what CCP does... Until eve is a themepark lets-be-friends-forever MMO, people like you will always cry for nerfs. There is nothing wrong with wardecs. It adds an element to the game that many people enjoy. The unique thing about eve is that there is content an mechanics that serve as conflict drivers. Most people think of conflict drivers as captureable fw space and null sov, but the most interesting conflict drivers are the ones that fall in metagaming and emergent gameplay,

The fact that a small mining corp can war dec or hire mercs to chase off the huge corp that's hogging all the ice and roids is incredible. I'm going to try and say this nicely because I want toget my point across without getting moderated: Hisec is not your personal playground where you can make friends and isk without any risk or the fear of consequence. Hisec is home to thieves, con-artists, gankers, extortionists, and mercenaries just as it is to "your kind". If you want fun without risk of consequence, then please leave and find another game.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#215 - 2015-03-13 22:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn Shi
Faylee Freir wrote:
Niobe Song wrote:
Rather than worry about NPC corps maybe CCP should just get rid of wardecs.

You want PvP? You go to null, low sec, or worm hole space or you gank in high sec. None of this ridiculous wardec nonsense.

That won't solve anything. It doesn't matter what CCP does... Until eve is a themepark lets-be-friends-forever MMO, people like you will always cry for nerfs. There is nothing wrong with wardecs. It adds an element to the game that many people enjoy. The unique thing about eve is that there is content an mechanics that serve as conflict drivers. Most people think of conflict drivers as captureable fw space and null sov, but the most interesting conflict drivers are the ones that fall in metagaming and emergent gameplay,

The fact that a small mining corp can war dec or hire mercs to chase off the huge corp that's hogging all the ice and roids is incredible. I'm going to try and say this nicely because I want toget my point across without getting moderated: Hisec is not your personal playground where you can make friends and isk without any risk or the fear of consequence. Hisec is home to thieves, con-artists, gankers, extortionists, and mercenaries just as it is to "your kind". If you want fun without risk of consequence, then please leave and find another game.



I call bull on your use of the word many.

And its funny that you use the word risk when you are hiding in hi-sec trying to pvp a pve player.
Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2015-03-13 22:38:22 UTC
Avoid wars.
Hundreds of people to chat with.
Pride uncertain lore aspects.
Not ready to join a corp.

There are many reasons. Took me forever to join a corp.

Really, in high sec, corps seem practically useless beyond tax savings. If the constant flood of war decs by drooling maniacs around trade hubs is worth the extra 10% you lost in taxes, then a corp is worth it.

Otherwise, if you staying in high sec, I seriously see no reason at all to join a corp, especially if you already engage in activities that are not taxed anyway.
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#217 - 2015-03-13 22:57:30 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Faylee Freir wrote:
Niobe Song wrote:
Rather than worry about NPC corps maybe CCP should just get rid of wardecs.

You want PvP? You go to null, low sec, or worm hole space or you gank in high sec. None of this ridiculous wardec nonsense.

That won't solve anything. It doesn't matter what CCP does... Until eve is a themepark lets-be-friends-forever MMO, people like you will always cry for nerfs. There is nothing wrong with wardecs. It adds an element to the game that many people enjoy. The unique thing about eve is that there is content an mechanics that serve as conflict drivers. Most people think of conflict drivers as captureable fw space and null sov, but the most interesting conflict drivers are the ones that fall in metagaming and emergent gameplay,

The fact that a small mining corp can war dec or hire mercs to chase off the huge corp that's hogging all the ice and roids is incredible. I'm going to try and say this nicely because I want toget my point across without getting moderated: Hisec is not your personal playground where you can make friends and isk without any risk or the fear of consequence. Hisec is home to thieves, con-artists, gankers, extortionists, and mercenaries just as it is to "your kind". If you want fun without risk of consequence, then please leave and find another game.



I call bull on your use of the word many.

And its funny that you use the word risk when you are hiding in hi-sec trying to pvp a pve player.

I'm interested in knowing which word you would use to describe the amount. I used the word many because of you look in the crime and punishment sub-forum you will find MANY people that call themselves mercenaries. There are also MANY people that like what mercenaries do.

I can only speak for myself, so I will... I don't hide in hisec. I choose to be in hisec because that's where the fattened cattle can be found. Players much like yourself that live in some delusional state that there ought to be risk-free pve in hisec.. So you run missions in your faction or officer fit battleship. Sure, I guess I could romp around a mostly empty nullsec or get blobbed by gangs in lowsec, but I choose to live in a place where my existence can provide meaning. I create content and use the conflict of others as part of that content. I prey on the weak and sometimes the loot fairy blesses my endeavors. I don't play without my own risk either... I **** off a bunch of people. I'm still learning and am not as skilled as most others like me... Someone that doesn't like me could wardec me themselves or hire mercs. thebdifference between me being in hisec and you being in hisec is that I'm not weak. Sure I may be learning and have a bad killboard, and get stomped every once in a while, but I'm not weak like you.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#218 - 2015-03-13 23:07:31 UTC
Faylee Freir wrote:
I can only speak for myself, so I will... I don't hide in hisec. I choose to be in hisec because that's where the fattened cattle can be found. Players much like yourself that live in some delusional state that there ought to be risk-free pve in hisec.. So you run missions in your faction or officer fit battleship. Sure, I guess I could romp around a mostly empty nullsec or get blobbed by gangs in lowsec, but I choose to live in a place where my existence can provide meaning. I create content and use the conflict of others as part of that content. I prey on the weak and sometimes the loot fairy blesses my endeavors. I don't play without my own risk either... I **** off a bunch of people. I'm still learning and am not as skilled as most others like me... Someone that doesn't like me could wardec me themselves or hire mercs. thebdifference between me being in hisec and you being in hisec is that I'm not weak. Sure I may be learning and have a bad killboard, and get stomped every once in a while, but I'm not weak like you.

Hmm, you may be learning however, it seems you may have overlooked something... specifically:
Faylee Freir wrote:
Someone that doesn't like me could wardec me

Is there a reason you're allowing this? Just from this thread you would have learned how to deal with this issue.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#219 - 2015-03-13 23:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Faylee Freir
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Faylee Freir wrote:
I can only speak for myself, so I will... I don't hide in hisec. I choose to be in hisec because that's where the fattened cattle can be found. Players much like yourself that live in some delusional state that there ought to be risk-free pve in hisec.. So you run missions in your faction or officer fit battleship. Sure, I guess I could romp around a mostly empty nullsec or get blobbed by gangs in lowsec, but I choose to live in a place where my existence can provide meaning. I create content and use the conflict of others as part of that content. I prey on the weak and sometimes the loot fairy blesses my endeavors. I don't play without my own risk either... I **** off a bunch of people. I'm still learning and am not as skilled as most others like me... Someone that doesn't like me could wardec me themselves or hire mercs. thebdifference between me being in hisec and you being in hisec is that I'm not weak. Sure I may be learning and have a bad killboard, and get stomped every once in a while, but I'm not weak like you.

Hmm, you may be learning however, it seems you may have overlooked something... specifically:
Faylee Freir wrote:
Someone that doesn't like me could wardec me

Is there a reason you're allowing this? Just from this thread you would have learned how to deal with this issue.

Me getting wardec'd is not an issue, only added risk. It's not an issue because I'm not weak like you. Being dec'd by a larger and better entity just means that I may need to remove my faction web and point... Or that I need to make sure I pay proper attention to my scout... Or that my watch list is updated... You know, thigsh at you can do to minimize risk too. I choose to do something about it where "people like you" will hide in a station, stay logged off, then cry for nerfs saying there's nothing you can do about it. All it would literally take for most of the small corps that wardec is a few logi and some ewar. That or pay mercs to do it. If you aren't willing to do something about the conflict you're in, then at the very least don't cry about it. Instead just play a different game.

Eve is conflict an player interaction. You have no right trying to neuter what makes eve special. This isn't just about wardecs though... Let's be honest, many of "you people" woul like to see conflict and emergent gameplay nerfed into the ground where you are effectively playing sim city even without environmental effects like flooding, fire, earthquakes, and alien abductions (because those things are just too much for a simple-minded peasant to deal with).
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#220 - 2015-03-14 00:47:45 UTC
Faylee Freir wrote:
Me getting wardec'd is not an issue, only added risk. It's not an issue because I'm not weak like you. Being dec'd by a larger and better entity just means that I may need to remove my faction web and point... Or that I need to make sure I pay proper attention to my scout... Or that my watch list is updated... You know, thigsh at you can do to minimize risk too. I choose to do something about it where "people like you" will hide in a station, stay logged off, then cry for nerfs saying there's nothing you can do about it. All it would literally take for most of the small corps that wardec is a few logi and some ewar. That or pay mercs to do it. If you aren't willing to do something about the conflict you're in, then at the very least don't cry about it. Instead just play a different game.

Eve is conflict an player interaction. You have no right trying to neuter what makes eve special. This isn't just about wardecs though... Let's be honest, many of "you people" woul like to see conflict and emergent gameplay nerfed into the ground where you are effectively playing sim city even without environmental effects like flooding, fire, earthquakes, and alien abductions (because those things are just too much for a simple-minded peasant to deal with).

Ok, I've been listening to this nonsense silently long enough.

1) Your way of playing sandbox allows you to be relatively fine with a wardec threat, this doesn't make it stronger, this makes it actually paler, and it has absolutely nothing to do with being weak or strong. However, a lot of playstyles, especially those not concerning the ultimate boredom of ship to ship pew, are completely devastated by a wardec, or, considering that a war dec thrown against carefully selected target which has no ability to fight back, we should call it what it is - a grief dec.

2) "A few logi and some ewar" would do absolutely nothing at best (the enemy sees those with neutral scout and decides to hit something else, and let you sit there in those logi ewar ships boring yourself to death), and will be losses at worst (enemy sees those, and stomps it laughing at how great of an idea getting easy kills from grief decs is). Bottom line is: fight or no fight, the defender loses everything.

3) Mercs are currently 120% useless for anything but scaring the risk averse grief deccers. They can't sit at your assets 23/7, they can't force the grief deccer to fight, what can they do? Nothing. As in n-o-t-h-i-n-g. Which is most likely what they are going to do once you pay them.

4) The mercs have prohibitively high cost. Remaking corp costs pretty much, not playing for a week costs pretty much, paying mercs costs even more - and see 3) again if you think it's worth it.

5) Conflict - good. Grief dec - bad. Grief dec carries zero risk for the attacker, and even if defender mans up, pays mercs, joins the 5000-man alliance, and/or does a barrel roll - the amount of damage he can inflict to the attacker is ZERO, because the risk-averse grief deccer won't undock. I'm both hands for meaningful conflict, where both attacker and defender have options. Right now attacker has every option he wants, and defender has a choice of dropping corp or not undocking for a week, because all other options are ******** (see 2, 3, 4).

Your self-entitlement to be better than average indy player by having a different playstyle (and admittedly failing at it) is only beaten by your argumentation in silliness.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.