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Caldari vs Gallente FW
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Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#41 - 2011-12-02 14:07:18 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
However don't expect it to mean anything other then one word on your screen changing.

That is exactly how I felt last night after we successfully flipped a system. There was no feeling of acheivement (no pvp came of it, and hitting the bunker is mind-numbing), no sense of reward (didn't even get a standing boost) and no consequence for the sov change, simply the knowledge that after downtime the word caldari would be replaced by the word gallente.

woop?

Personally I get the same thrill of pvp in a caldari system as i do in a gallente one, its never been the map that attracted me to fw as much as the perma war dec, gang warfare and epic trolling. Maybe if the sov meant something (docking rights, station guns, whatever balanced consequence one proposes) it would tempt me into actively flipping systems. Until then i'm only doing them to help others, and even then its just setting the drones and browsing the net until something of interest happens.

On a happier trollier note, I'm disappointed the caldari don't plex and flip more than they do, it's perfectly suited to their fleets of pve fit drakes. Lol
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#42 - 2011-12-02 15:54:18 UTC
Mehashi 'Kho wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
However don't expect it to mean anything other then one word on your screen changing.

That is exactly how I felt last night after we successfully flipped a system. There was no feeling of acheivement (no pvp came of it, and hitting the bunker is mind-numbing), no sense of reward (didn't even get a standing boost) and no consequence for the sov change, simply the knowledge that after downtime the word caldari would be replaced by the word gallente.

woop?

Personally I get the same thrill of pvp in a caldari system as i do in a gallente one, its never been the map that attracted me to fw as much as the perma war dec, gang warfare and epic trolling. Maybe if the sov meant something (docking rights, station guns, whatever balanced consequence one proposes) it would tempt me into actively flipping systems. Until then i'm only doing them to help others, and even then its just setting the drones and browsing the net until something of interest happens.

On a happier trollier note, I'm disappointed the caldari don't plex and flip more than they do, it's perfectly suited to their fleets of pve fit drakes. Lol


PVE fit Navy Scorps....get it right!

Enjoy winning the war gents, until a fleet of pointy ships mounts an "incursion" into your territory (see what I did there?). I got my money on those Sansha guys, they really seem to know what they're doing. I'm gonna go ahead and put in an application. I hope the interview goes OK.

-DP

P.S. I propose all our corps drop this whole militia thing and form a Sansha RP Alliance and proceed to pwn space. Nothing but Phantasms and Nightmares blotting out the sun!

Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#43 - 2011-12-02 15:55:16 UTC
Mehashi 'Kho wrote:
(no pvp came of it, and hitting the bunker is mind-numbing)


Did you seriously expect it? Caldari militia has at most 40 active pvp'ers at any given time, many who hate each other and would never cooperate. Frog militia has three corps with 100+ members in it and despite all things, eventually can get on scene if need be like now is the case.

So why would anyone from Caldari side bother since it would be easier to squeeze blood from solid rock than get mission runners to get interested about pvp? The moment someone goes and chases a gallente plexer off, there will be a jesus blob on the scene within 10 minutes looking for a gank,
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#44 - 2011-12-02 16:26:57 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Mehashi 'Kho wrote:
(no pvp came of it, and hitting the bunker is mind-numbing)


Did you seriously expect it? Caldari militia has at most 40 active pvp'ers at any given time, many who hate each other and would never cooperate. Frog militia has three corps with 100+ members in it and despite all things, eventually can get on scene if need be like now is the case.

So why would anyone from Caldari side bother since it would be easier to squeeze blood from solid rock than get mission runners to get interested about pvp? The moment someone goes and chases a gallente plexer off, there will be a jesus blob on the scene within 10 minutes looking for a gank,






While a lot of folks may say Damar has a serious case of Angry Olf Vet Syndome (AOVS), and he does, but he copes with it well through drugs, he is correct here.

I'm not sure there are many animosities between active corps in CalMil at the moment (that I know of) though I'm sure individual pilots have grievances. Mostly because there are not a lot of active corps in CalMil at the moment. There are even fewer active PvP pilots that fly in an organized manner than the kill-board may say. There are ~3 decent size active corps that I can think of that just don't coordinate with the rest of the corps in CalMil, mostly due to language barriers. There are 2-3 active pirate CalMil corps that just like to do their own thing (basically be pies with less gcc). Then there is the Enaluri crowd, which lately has seemed to thin out a bit (I'm sure the new games out at this time of year have a lot to do with that). On a normal US TZ weeknight we can pull 10-15 guys together. That can get up to 20-25 by the end of the night but right around whent he fleet gets that big guys start going to bed and it drops back down. So while there is a limited cross over period when we can get that 20-25 guys usually its more like ~15. Weekends can get fleets in the 30-40 range. There has also been a lot of turnover in the last few months with a lot of old players leaving for other things or just leaving the game. So there is a good number of flux keeping average pilot SP levels lower than the average gal pilot sp levels (mostly because the 3 larger gal corps have old school guys who have been around the block for a few years, and in militia for a few years). All this leads to a general lack of desire to go get face-pwned in a 2-1 fight. (Not that we dont do that when we get bored enough).

Plexes can offer a chance to even up the odds, at least in ship clas if not #'s of pilots (as several people constantly point out in coms Smile), however, in my personal experience when you get 15 guys in a plex, 30 guys show up and either sit outside the plex or sometimes come in. Normally is an hour of nothing for maybe a fight. I would rather keep jumping system to system for an hour and occasionally gank something or not. Even though both are a waste of time it at least feels like I'm doing something when i jump around.

Plexes are intended to be a mechanism for arranged fights. You sit here for 15 min, in a place where people have to bring the same class of ship as you. This give people 15min to find you, fleet, and fight you. The problem with EVE is that almost no-one wants an arranged fight. We wall want a fight where we f*cking face r*pe the other guys and lose absolutely no ships of our own. (me too!)...so the arranged fights...meh... especially when there is no reward. Standings? WTF... that's what missions are for.

Wow this is a wall of text. Seriously though...Sansha 4 Eva! True power!
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#45 - 2011-12-02 17:19:02 UTC
Dark Pangolin wrote:
On a normal US TZ weeknight we can pull 10-15 guys together. That can get up to 20-25 by the end of the night but right around whent he fleet gets that big guys start going to bed and it drops back down. So while there is a limited cross over period when we can get that 20-25 guys usually its more like ~15. Weekends can get fleets in the 30-40 range.


That's pretty much it. I expect great influx of more people to gallente side in coming days to hunt the ever diminishing number of Caldari pilots. After all, I laughed out loud when SOTF initially came back saying they are back in FW for good fights. I was always wondering who would they get these "good fites" from since WB-R was not rejoining Caldari side.
Chan Omari
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-12-02 17:31:34 UTC
There are actually some cool mechanics that promote the use of small gangs to protect systems from being flipped, it's pretty easy to see the design intents, unfortunately CalMil have been beaten down so much that they can't seem to undock during USTZ.

Bunker bashing isn't all that much fun, blob, or no blob, the fact that you can actually counter a blob with a few small ships makes me wish that more caldari would try (ala Zaric from the Pyne takeover last night) to take systems or at least defend....
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#47 - 2011-12-02 17:32:22 UTC
My idea for giving plexing meaning. Disable valuable low-sec agents when a system is flipped. The trade off will be that you will no longer get missions in that system, since your missions with only be in the enemy militia sov space.

So as you push the border back, denying the enemy faction high LP low-sec agents, you also limit the pool of systems you can mission in making you easier targets for the weaker militia to hunt.

In a scenario where you have taken all space you have now forced the enemy militia to take missions from high sec agents with low LP worth, but you only have 5 or so (un-flippable) systems to mission in.

I dont know if this is enough to incentivise people to fight or the right way to go about it, but its something.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#48 - 2011-12-02 17:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Damar Rocarion
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
So as you push the border back, denying the enemy faction high LP low-sec agents, you also limit the pool of systems you can mission in making you easier targets for the weaker militia to hunt.


You do realise that's the most stupidest idea ever. Since this is eve, the following will happen: Gallente militia takes all systems, but Nagamanen and thus all mission running can be done nice and close to home base.

And as for Chan Omari's comments: Yes, i know the mechanisms but you are now assuming that regular people or even people who lead fleets would be arsed to learn or use them. Or that ultimately one hero pilot could stop the blob.

FW is now like 0.0, though no bubbles and less supers, but ultimately Gallente side is now in position what usually happens in 0.0. Other side is clearly dominant, other side failcascades or stays docked (in case of npc sov), end of story. No need to sugarcoat existing facts.

I've known this to be the case ever since Draketrain left Caldari militia. Plexing changes just made it possible for the sad truth to be revealed for all to see.
Simyaldee
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2011-12-02 18:07:00 UTC
As a member of Caldari Militia and an FC I kinda agree with Darks view. Plexing is simply not rewarding enough for me to take a dedicated plexing fleet out. All the power to Damar and those who do plex, but sitting several hours in a system orbiting and HOPING that I get a good fight is not exactly my cup of tea(if I drank tea). I have never tried taking a plexing fleet out but I might sometime, just to see what its like(Although I think I already know).

As of right now the state of the Caldari Militia is not very good. Its getting slowly better through means I am not willing to discuss on open forums, but we still cannot engage the Gallente effectively enough to have a solid chance of winning during each fight. I intend to attempt to rectify this as soon as my goddamn finals are over but well see.

And I just realized that I have half-an-hour to study for a test because I've been treading in the forums to long...thanks guys.

See you Starside
~Simyaldee

Member, Fighter and FC for The Great Harmon Institute of Technology 
Chan Omari
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-12-02 18:19:12 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:


And as for Chan Omari's comments: Yes, i know the mechanisms but you are now assuming that regular people or even people who lead fleets would be arsed to learn or use them. Or that ultimately one hero pilot could stop the blob.


I never realized how bad the situation was inside the Caldari Milita......all hope is lost, creative ideas are fruitless, resistance is futile, Gallente will rule the universe, all hail the Federation!

Seriously 5-10 frigs or cruisers can reverse the 60 minute effort of a 30 man BS gang with the new spawn mechanics. How sweet is that?

Common Caldari, man up and channel your inner HONEY BADGER, he just don't give a f**k, Twisted
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#51 - 2011-12-02 19:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Pangolin
Chan Omari wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:


And as for Chan Omari's comments: Yes, i know the mechanisms but you are now assuming that regular people or even people who lead fleets would be arsed to learn or use them. Or that ultimately one hero pilot could stop the blob.


I never realized how bad the situation was inside the Caldari Milita......all hope is lost, creative ideas are fruitless, resistance is futile, Gallente will rule the universe, all hail the Federation!

Seriously 5-10 frigs or cruisers can reverse the 60 minute effort of a 30 man BS gang with the new spawn mechanics. How sweet is that?

Common Caldari, man up and channel your inner HONEY BADGER, he just don't give a f**k, Twisted






Guys I think there is some misunderstanding, I, and by extension we, are not giving up at pew pew. I will fight whenever I can all I need is a 60/40 chance to win Big smile. I have however completely given up (not that I ever got in it to begin with) plexing.

-DP
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#52 - 2011-12-02 20:36:51 UTC
Dark Pangolin wrote:
Guys I think there is some misunderstanding, I, and by extension we, are not giving up at pew pew. I will fight whenever I can all I need is a 60/40 chance to win Big smile. I have however completely given up (not that I ever got in it to begin with) plexing.-DP


Well, I went bit of plexing today after coming from RL meeting. No surprise, 2 minutes after chasing wt out local spiked with 6 war targets. I killed slicer, jaguar, nemesis and pod*. At this stage wt's shipped up, brought neutral tanker, neutral rr and ecm. They also shipped up shipwise.

I still captured the plexes but seeing how much guys frogs bring to take on a guy flying cloaked and stabbed t1 frigate**, there is not much interest to go fight over plexes.

Naturally I didnt lose any ships because that would be shameful. Especially against people using neutrals to fight their war.

*Sanshas were also helpful and ganked a blobcat Harbinger for me.
**According to frogs, those are the only ships I fly.
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#53 - 2011-12-02 22:18:39 UTC
Quote:
So finally CCP decided to break Faction Warfare.
They started of with changing the way how FW Complexes (known as plexes) spawn.

Since the Expansion plexes now spawn in all systems and Outposts will always respawn every 30 minutes
This removes any skill advantage and Gallente can run systems 23/7 with stabbed Atron alts


Fixed!





Quote:
throwing under a bus?? its only me and Popiejopie running the plexes, you can hardly call that throwing under the bus. but oh yeah, I forgot you need at least 10 people in fleet with 2 blackbirds and 8 drakes. to kill off 2 guys plexing. like the big failure you are.


You mean apart from the three Black Oynx Society accounts that run plexes in stabbed Atrons fifteen hours a day and the dozens of Gallente randomly taking plexes?

As far as even numbers go, you've been completely humiliated post-dt every time you couldn't bring a massive blob.

http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11593930

"But, but...the NPCs were jamming and ummmmmm...Caldari had ten Blackbirds and ummmmmmmm......were blobbing!"

http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11708066

The really sad part about this one is you had not one but TWO neutral boosters (XBrutaliX in Tengu and MaraudR73 in Loki). Too bad it wasn't unrestricted, otherwise you could have brought the Abaddon blob again to take on the Drakes.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14676540

They might have got another sweet Thrasher kill!
Daiyu Tzu
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-12-02 22:52:18 UTC
Seems Madbuster73 are owned and trolled in his own thread for trolling! Embarrassing Oops

But overall events seems to be even more interesting:
1) frogs who always accused squids on blobbing are blobbing
2) squids who always said that plexing is important now are saying that it is not important
3) frogs who always said that plexing is not important now are saying that it is very important
3) caldari militia who technically is biggest seems is smallest of all in reality
4) CCP made just one single change in FW... and broke FW completelly (new record of inompetence by CCP)
5) frogs who always said that plexing is most boring of all things to do (and they will never to do it because there is no reason) now are plexing like mad
6) Evil Synns are going to join squids

No I just will go out to see when sky will be falling (if any of You will be visiting hell in nearest future just let me know is it frozen already)... Lol
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#55 - 2011-12-02 22:57:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
Why would it be unheard of, since we already did it to you, then held them ALL for so long (almost a year), that CCP was basically forced to recognize the fact?

Signed,
Tanaka Sekigahara,
Holder of The Distinguished Blade
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#56 - 2011-12-02 23:18:42 UTC
Daiyu Tzu wrote:
Seems Madbuster73 are owned and trolled in his own thread for trolling! Embarrassing Oops

But overall events seems to be even more interesting:
1) frogs who always accused squids on blobbing are blobbing
2) squids who always said that plexing is important now are saying that it is not important
3) frogs who always said that plexing is not important now are saying that it is very important
3) caldari militia who technically is biggest seems is smallest of all in reality
4) CCP made just one single change in FW... and broke FW completelly (new record of inompetence by CCP)
5) frogs who always said that plexing is most boring of all things to do (and they will never to do it because there is no reason) now are plexing like mad
6) Evil Synns are going to join squids

No I just will go out to see when sky will be falling (if any of You will be visiting hell in nearest future just let me know is it frozen already)... Lol


Pretty much this.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#57 - 2011-12-02 23:18:55 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Mehashi 'Kho wrote:
(no pvp came of it, and hitting the bunker is mind-numbing)


Did you seriously expect it? Caldari militia has at most 40 active pvp'ers at any given time, many who hate each other and would never cooperate. Frog militia has three corps with 100+ members in it and despite all things, eventually can get on scene if need be like now is the case.

So why would anyone from Caldari side bother since it would be easier to squeeze blood from solid rock than get mission runners to get interested about pvp? The moment someone goes and chases a gallente plexer off, there will be a jesus blob on the scene within 10 minutes looking for a gank,





Gee ,I wonder why that is.

Big mystery to you Damar, is it??

Someday, someone is gonna come along that knows how to actually fight, and win a WAR, and you will all be gone.Someone that doesn't spend the majority of their time bemoaning the game mechanics and slagging their own militia and engaging in incessant pissing festivals.If certain people looked at how it was actually done the last time, the only time it was done, they might learn something, as opposed to reading forum blatherings of glories past and fairy tales about plexes.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#58 - 2011-12-03 00:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
Mehashi 'Kho wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
However don't expect it to mean anything other then one word on your screen changing.

That is exactly how I felt last night after we successfully flipped a system. There was no feeling of acheivement (no pvp came of it, and hitting the bunker is mind-numbing), no sense of reward (didn't even get a standing boost) and no consequence for the sov change, simply the knowledge that after downtime the word caldari would be replaced by the word gallente.

woop?

Personally I get the same thrill of pvp in a caldari system as i do in a gallente one, its never been the map that attracted me to fw as much as the perma war dec, gang warfare and epic trolling. Maybe if the sov meant something (docking rights, station guns, whatever balanced consequence one proposes) it would tempt me into actively flipping systems. Until then i'm only doing them to help others, and even then its just setting the drones and browsing the net until something of interest happens.

On a happier trollier note, I'm disappointed the caldari don't plex and flip more than they do, it's perfectly suited to their fleets of pve fit drakes. Lol
I'm sorry it was disappointing for you, and I myself never found it particularly rewarding.
If, however ,you are farsighted, and your leaders mount a sustained effort, what you will find is that eventually it starts to have a HUGE effect on enemy, and consequently your own, morale.Morale in EvE is not to be underestimated. It is the difference between logging in or not, or between running missions or fleeting up.After awhile it gets hard to explain to the new guys " hey, what does that 'Caldari occupancy' thing mean in the upper left corner in every system we fly through, isn't it supposed to say Gallente?", and the FC answers back " Oh, don't worry about that, that doesn't really mean anything". After awhile it gets old.

This war is not, and has never been about plexing.Nor is it about random fleets fights in random pipes.
There are resources in FW space, always have been, and they are mostly unexploited ( at least by the FW combatants).
Eventually someone in FW is gonna figure that out, and figure out they have a ready made alliance to take, hold, and exploit that space and it's resources.The goal of the war is the same as any war anywhere.Resources and power.The belief that this type of war cannot be waged, cannot be won is what is holding the FW militias back.There are enough resources out there to build CAPs with.It's just, noone does it. But someone will.....

There is a difference between holding occupancy in a system, and having functional control, over who comes, who goes, who passes through and who makes the coin off the resources.Plexing is part of it, but not all of it.Neither are random fights focused towards nothing other than breaking up the monotony of fighting a war with no clear fixed goal.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#59 - 2011-12-03 01:59:11 UTC
Yeah when are we all gonna team up and start taking those high value moons in low sec?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#60 - 2011-12-03 02:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
So as you push the border back, denying the enemy faction high LP low-sec agents, you also limit the pool of systems you can mission in making you easier targets for the weaker militia to hunt.


You do realise that's the most stupidest idea ever. Since this is eve, the following will happen: Gallente militia takes all systems, but Nagamanen and thus all mission running can be done nice and close to home base.

And as for Chan Omari's comments: Yes, i know the mechanisms but you are now assuming that regular people or even people who lead fleets would be arsed to learn or use them. Or that ultimately one hero pilot could stop the blob.

FW is now like 0.0, though no bubbles and less supers, but ultimately Gallente side is now in position what usually happens in 0.0. Other side is clearly dominant, other side failcascades or stays docked (in case of npc sov), end of story. No need to sugarcoat existing facts.

I've known this to be the case ever since Draketrain left Caldari militia. Plexing changes just made it possible for the sad truth to be revealed for all to see.


As i implied in my post, there would be a core of un-swingable systems. So leaving one system would only give you a 1/6 chance or so of getting a mission in there. Also, not swinging certain systems where gal in in possession but not holding occupancy would be one of the advantages of being on the attack.
It would then be your job yo swing systems back to reduce this advantage. But on the other hand, these small number of un-swingable systems could be VERY perilous for the gal mission runners (in this scenario) trying to dodge the caldari who have a very good idea where all the gal missions are concentrated.

It would also be a good impedance to all the caldari isk farmers you guys are constantly complaining about with them having to take inferior high-sec lp missions.

Stupidest idea ever was a bit harsh dont you think? lol not that i care.