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High Security Space Fleet Operations
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Chupacabra Gordon
Infinite Luck
#1 - 2015-02-06 23:13:38 UTC
I am having a problem finding the answer to a question about high sec space fleet operations. Below is the fleet configuration:

James is flying a Coveter.
Mark is flying a Procurer.
Mike is flying a Maismos.
Bob is flying a Caracal.

they all in the same corp and in the same fleet.

Frank in neither a corp member nor a fleet member.

Frank jumps into the Astroid belt in a 0.7 security system were this mining fleet is working. Frank decides to attack Mark. In this situation, does Bob have the ability to attack Frank after he has already started shooting Mark without CONCORD killing Bob ?
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-02-06 23:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Yes, the only exception would be if Mark and Frank have a LE(limited engagement) toward each other (Mark accepted a duel with Frank) or the two corps are at war.
If neither of the two are exceptions are in play, Frank will turn red and everyone can attack him.

Note: As long as Bob's safety is set to green it won't let him attack Frank unless he is a legal target.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-02-06 23:53:12 UTC
Frank will be flagged as a criminal and be free to be shot at by anyone.

UNLESS:

1. Frank is at war with Mark
2. Mark did something that caused a limited engagement with Frank.

Art of Explosions
Demetri Dentrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-02-07 03:10:34 UTC
Heh. One would wonder why Frank selected the hardest target in the group to attack.

Yes, Mark had to have done something to Frank earlier in order for CONCORD to not step in. Other than what was mentioned, I'm pretty sure that if Mark had ganked Frank at some point, and Frank had a "Kill right" on Mark... that would do it.

You can also buy kill rights, but Mark would have had to do something previously to start that train.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2015-02-07 05:38:17 UTC
Mark is a spai and accepted a duel invitation from Frank. He starts yelling "SHOOT FRANK!!" to see if the noob corp will get itself concorded.
Shelom Severasse
Legion Ascending
Fraternity.
#6 - 2015-02-07 07:37:50 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Yes, the only exception would be if Mark and Frank have a LE(limited engagement) toward each other (Mark accepted a duel with Frank) or the two corps are at war.
If neither of the two are exceptions are in play, Frank will turn red and everyone can attack him.

Note: As long as Bob's safety is set to green it won't let him attack Frank unless he is a legal target.

he doesnt go red, he goes flashy. if he manages to pod the guy, he goes red
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#7 - 2015-02-07 12:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Adoulin
No.

As described, Frank will go red (Criminal flag) as soon as he shoots at Mark.

Even if safety is set to Green, anyone will be able to shoot Frank before CONCORD lands and finishes the job. And they will be able to shoot his pod as well...he will be Criminal for 15 minutes from the beginning of his attack.

Variations:

If Frank has a kill right on Mark and activates it, Mark goes flashy yellow. Anybody can shoot at Mark, but NO-ONE can shoot at anybody attacking Mark (except Mark). If they do they get CONCORDED. However, anyone can boost/repair Mark OR his attackers. If they do so they will go Suspect as well (for interfering in the fight) and be subject to possible attack.

Lets say Frank challenges Mark to a duel and Mark accepts. Only Frank and Mark can shoot at each other (its a duel...) but as above, anyone can boost/rep either combatant. If they do they go Suspect and can be shot at by anybody.

Easiest is that Frank wardecced Mark's corp yesterday and the war just now went hot. Frank can shoot at all of them and vice versa.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#8 - 2015-02-09 04:51:57 UTC
This post reminds me of a problem from my old algebra textbook.

If Jimmy has 3 dollars, and Luis likes cars, how many bananas can a gorilla eat?

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Theroine
Pew Pew Pirates
#9 - 2015-02-09 06:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Theroine
Liam Inkuras wrote:
This post reminds me of a problem from my old algebra textbook.

If Jimmy has 3 dollars, and Luis likes cars, how many bananas can a gorilla eat?


Actually, while 67% of their diet consists of fruit, I think gorillas are more interested in banana tree pith than the actual bananas in providing the 40lbs of food they consume a day. I assume that during the time of year when said trees bear fruit, they also consume a lot of bananas. For the sake of your question, I'm going to assume that there are enough bananas to sate the above-mentioned gorilla.

Next, in order to attribute some form of monetary value to the consumed bananas, I'm going to assume that Jimmy is from The United States, and that the gorillas are eastern lowland gorillas, as probably more people are familiar with them through the late Dian Fossey's (Also American from San Francisco, California) research into them. As is such, I'll also assume the gorillas live in the Democratic Republic of the Congo since this country's economy is a little more stable than Rwanda, another natural habitat for gorillas.

The next step to solving the equation is much more subjective, thus trickier and definitely open to debate. Since the origin of the name 'Luis' is Spanish, and since Spaniards are a proud people who support the Spanish automobile industry, I'm going to say Luis likes Spanish cars. Some might say it's a coincidence that SEAT (a Spanish car company) produced the Ronda from 1982 to 1986, but a closer look reveals some interesting connection to the above mentioned problem. First, although the spelling and pronunciation are different, 'Rwanda' and 'Ronda' have four letters in common. Next, Dian Fossey was assassinated in Rwanda in 1985, during the short run of the Ronda. Finally, the etymology of 'San Francisco' and 'California', the place of Fossey's birth, is Spanish, thus reconfirming the decision to focus on Spanish automobiles.

The most current commodity price puts bananas at $908 per metric ton, which we have to convert to pounds as Jimmy will have no clue regarding anything metric: 1 metric ton = 2,204 lbs, or 41 cents per lb. Three average-size bananas weigh approximately 1 lb, so for $3 you can buy 7 lbs of bananas, which works out to 21 bananas.

Next, since many people wrongly assume that 'and' is an additive word, we need to add the total production run of Rondas to the 21 bananas: 177,869 +21 = 177,900. Converting that back to lbs yields 59,300 lbs of bananas. We then multiply that number by 4 (the number of common letters in Rwanda and Ronda) to get 237,200lbs, which is a very close hex color to that of green bananas, showing us the calculation is correct so far.

Finally, coming back to 67% of a gorillas diet consisting of fruit. Assuming that they go on a banana diet for their fruit intake, that would mean they eat 26.8 lbs of bananas a day. So a gorilla could eat the 237,200lbs of bananas in 24 years.

I hope this helps to clear up high-sec aggression mechanics.Pirate

Join in on the pew
Damnskippy
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-02-10 02:07:27 UTC
Theroine wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
This post reminds me of a problem from my old algebra textbook.

If Jimmy has 3 dollars, and Luis likes cars, how many bananas can a gorilla eat?


Actually, while 67% of their diet consists of fruit, I think gorillas are more interested in banana tree pith than the actual bananas in providing the 40lbs of food they consume a day. I assume that during the time of year when said trees bear fruit, they also consume a lot of bananas. For the sake of your question, I'm going to assume that there are enough bananas to sate the above-mentioned gorilla.

Next, in order to attribute some form of monetary value to the consumed bananas, I'm going to assume that Jimmy is from The United States, and that the gorillas are eastern lowland gorillas, as probably more people are familiar with them through the late Dian Fossey's (Also American from San Francisco, California) research into them. As is such, I'll also assume the gorillas live in the Democratic Republic of the Congo since this country's economy is a little more stable than Rwanda, another natural habitat for gorillas.

The next step to solving the equation is much more subjective, thus trickier and definitely open to debate. Since the origin of the name 'Luis' is Spanish, and since Spaniards are a proud people who support the Spanish automobile industry, I'm going to say Luis likes Spanish cars. Some might say it's a coincidence that SEAT (a Spanish car company) produced the Ronda from 1982 to 1986, but a closer look reveals some interesting connection to the above mentioned problem. First, although the spelling and pronunciation are different, 'Rwanda' and 'Ronda' have four letters in common. Next, Dian Fossey was assassinated in Rwanda in 1985, during the short run of the Ronda. Finally, the etymology of 'San Francisco' and 'California', the place of Fossey's birth, is Spanish, thus reconfirming the decision to focus on Spanish automobiles.

The most current commodity price puts bananas at $908 per metric ton, which we have to convert to pounds as Jimmy will have no clue regarding anything metric: 1 metric ton = 2,204 lbs, or 41 cents per lb. Three average-size bananas weigh approximately 1 lb, so for $3 you can buy 7 lbs of bananas, which works out to 21 bananas.

Next, since many people wrongly assume that 'and' is an additive word, we need to add the total production run of Rondas to the 21 bananas: 177,869 +21 = 177,900. Converting that back to lbs yields 59,300 lbs of bananas. We then multiply that number by 4 (the number of common letters in Rwanda and Ronda) to get 237,200lbs, which is a very close hex color to that of green bananas, showing us the calculation is correct so far.

Finally, coming back to 67% of a gorillas diet consisting of fruit. Assuming that they go on a banana diet for their fruit intake, that would mean they eat 26.8 lbs of bananas a day. So a gorilla could eat the 237,200lbs of bananas in 24 years.

I hope this helps to clear up high-sec aggression mechanics.Pirate


/thread
/eve
/my beer
/my keyboard
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#11 - 2015-02-10 03:56:57 UTC
/closes textbook and melts

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-02-10 06:09:52 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:


Note: As long as Bob's safety is set to green it won't let him attack Frank unless he is a legal target.


our Great and Indifferent Bob has no use of safety settings and implying he would set it 'green' is the greatest of all heresies.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#13 - 2015-02-10 11:14:02 UTC
My safety setting is always on green.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#14 - 2015-02-10 20:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Chupacabra Gordon wrote:
I am having a problem finding the answer to a question about high sec space fleet operations. Below is the fleet configuration:

James is flying a Coveter.
Mark is flying a Procurer.
Mike is flying a Maismos.
Bob is flying a Caracal.

they all in the same corp and in the same fleet.

Frank in neither a corp member nor a fleet member.

Frank jumps into the Astroid belt in a 0.7 security system were this mining fleet is working. Frank decides to attack Mark. In this situation, does Bob have the ability to attack Frank after he has already started shooting Mark without CONCORD killing Bob ?

First, some things:

1. Being in the same fleet grants zero rights to aggress fleetmates or respond to legal aggression against fleetmates.
2. Being in the same corp allows you to aggress corpmates* but does not allow you to respond to legal aggression against corpmates.
3. In a 0.5+ system, unless your target is at war with you or appropriately flagged (i.e. suspect, limited engagement, or criminal), attacking them is illegal. This will flag you as a criminal and CONCORD will arrive shortly to relieve you of your ship.

With those in mind:

Assuming that Mark is not a legal target for Frank, Frank will become criminally flagged upon attacking Mark. This means that CONCORD will soon come blap Frank, and that Frank is a valid target for everyone else to engage. This is true whether you are in the same corp or fleet as Mark or not; criminal flags apply universally.


So, the short answer to your question is yes, Bob can attack Frank after Frank attacks Mark, assuming that Frank becomes criminally flagged in the process.


*This is changing in the next update to be a CEO-selectable option. Some corps will allow friendly fire, some wont.


EDIT: Clarified legal vs illegal targets.


EDIT2: In this situation, Bob should really be flying a Blackbird or an Osprey. CONCORD brings tons of DPS to the field already. Best to focus on bringing what they aren't.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Paranoid Loyd
#15 - 2015-02-11 19:33:22 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
EDIT2: In this situation, Bob should really be flying a Blackbird or an Osprey. CONCORD brings tons of DPS to the field already. Best to focus on bringing what they aren't.
How about Ashimmu with 3-4 neuts? That should cap out a Cat in one cycle.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#16 - 2015-02-12 02:04:30 UTC
Theroine wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
This post reminds me of a problem from my old algebra textbook.

If Jimmy has 3 dollars, and Luis likes cars, how many bananas can a gorilla eat?


Actually, while 67% of their diet consists of fruit, I think gorillas are more interested in banana tree pith than the actual bananas in providing the 40lbs of food they consume a day. I assume that during the time of year when said trees bear fruit, they also consume a lot of bananas. For the sake of your question, I'm going to assume that there are enough bananas to sate the above-mentioned gorilla.

Next, in order to attribute some form of monetary value to the consumed bananas, I'm going to assume that Jimmy is from The United States, and that the gorillas are eastern lowland gorillas, as probably more people are familiar with them through the late Dian Fossey's (Also American from San Francisco, California) research into them. As is such, I'll also assume the gorillas live in the Democratic Republic of the Congo since this country's economy is a little more stable than Rwanda, another natural habitat for gorillas.

The next step to solving the equation is much more subjective, thus trickier and definitely open to debate. Since the origin of the name 'Luis' is Spanish, and since Spaniards are a proud people who support the Spanish automobile industry, I'm going to say Luis likes Spanish cars. Some might say it's a coincidence that SEAT (a Spanish car company) produced the Ronda from 1982 to 1986, but a closer look reveals some interesting connection to the above mentioned problem. First, although the spelling and pronunciation are different, 'Rwanda' and 'Ronda' have four letters in common. Next, Dian Fossey was assassinated in Rwanda in 1985, during the short run of the Ronda. Finally, the etymology of 'San Francisco' and 'California', the place of Fossey's birth, is Spanish, thus reconfirming the decision to focus on Spanish automobiles.

The most current commodity price puts bananas at $908 per metric ton, which we have to convert to pounds as Jimmy will have no clue regarding anything metric: 1 metric ton = 2,204 lbs, or 41 cents per lb. Three average-size bananas weigh approximately 1 lb, so for $3 you can buy 7 lbs of bananas, which works out to 21 bananas.

Next, since many people wrongly assume that 'and' is an additive word, we need to add the total production run of Rondas to the 21 bananas: 177,869 +21 = 177,900. Converting that back to lbs yields 59,300 lbs of bananas. We then multiply that number by 4 (the number of common letters in Rwanda and Ronda) to get 237,200lbs, which is a very close hex color to that of green bananas, showing us the calculation is correct so far.

Finally, coming back to 67% of a gorillas diet consisting of fruit. Assuming that they go on a banana diet for their fruit intake, that would mean they eat 26.8 lbs of bananas a day. So a gorilla could eat the 237,200lbs of bananas in 24 years.

I hope this helps to clear up high-sec aggression mechanics.Pirate



A Gallente has written such a great post about bananas....hmmmmmm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#17 - 2015-02-12 02:24:14 UTC
Theroine wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
This post reminds me of a problem from my old algebra textbook.

If Jimmy has 3 dollars, and Luis likes cars, how many bananas can a gorilla eat?


Actually, while 67% of their diet consists of fruit, I think gorillas are more interested in banana tree pith than the actual bananas in providing the 40lbs of food they consume a day. I assume that during the time of year when said trees bear fruit, they also consume a lot of bananas. For the sake of your question, I'm going to assume that there are enough bananas to sate the above-mentioned gorilla.

Next, in order to attribute some form of monetary value to the consumed bananas, I'm going to assume that Jimmy is from The United States, and that the gorillas are eastern lowland gorillas, as probably more people are familiar with them through the late Dian Fossey's (Also American from San Francisco, California) research into them. As is such, I'll also assume the gorillas live in the Democratic Republic of the Congo since this country's economy is a little more stable than Rwanda, another natural habitat for gorillas.

The next step to solving the equation is much more subjective, thus trickier and definitely open to debate. Since the origin of the name 'Luis' is Spanish, and since Spaniards are a proud people who support the Spanish automobile industry, I'm going to say Luis likes Spanish cars. Some might say it's a coincidence that SEAT (a Spanish car company) produced the Ronda from 1982 to 1986, but a closer look reveals some interesting connection to the above mentioned problem. First, although the spelling and pronunciation are different, 'Rwanda' and 'Ronda' have four letters in common. Next, Dian Fossey was assassinated in Rwanda in 1985, during the short run of the Ronda. Finally, the etymology of 'San Francisco' and 'California', the place of Fossey's birth, is Spanish, thus reconfirming the decision to focus on Spanish automobiles.

The most current commodity price puts bananas at $908 per metric ton, which we have to convert to pounds as Jimmy will have no clue regarding anything metric: 1 metric ton = 2,204 lbs, or 41 cents per lb. Three average-size bananas weigh approximately 1 lb, so for $3 you can buy 7 lbs of bananas, which works out to 21 bananas.

Next, since many people wrongly assume that 'and' is an additive word, we need to add the total production run of Rondas to the 21 bananas: 177,869 +21 = 177,900. Converting that back to lbs yields 59,300 lbs of bananas. We then multiply that number by 4 (the number of common letters in Rwanda and Ronda) to get 237,200lbs, which is a very close hex color to that of green bananas, showing us the calculation is correct so far.

Finally, coming back to 67% of a gorillas diet consisting of fruit. Assuming that they go on a banana diet for their fruit intake, that would mean they eat 26.8 lbs of bananas a day. So a gorilla could eat the 237,200lbs of bananas in 24 years.

I hope this helps to clear up high-sec aggression mechanics.Pirate


What type of pith?
Theroine
Pew Pew Pirates
#18 - 2015-02-12 02:58:19 UTC
Theroine
Pew Pew Pirates
#19 - 2015-02-12 03:05:10 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Theroine wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
This post reminds me of a problem from my old algebra textbook.
If Jimmy has 3 dollars, and Luis likes cars, how many bananas can a gorilla eat?

Banana theorem above

A Gallente has written such a great post about bananas....hmmmmmm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
You know the saying, "Gallente see, Gallente do."

Join in on the pew
Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-03-02 07:09:27 UTC
Banana Pith Type C, of course.

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.