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Blood Raider which heavy drones
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Ary Rheev
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-02-03 23:16:45 UTC
Greetings.

Iam curious about which heavy drones I should use against blood raiders for maximum damage.
While I know that they are weak against em and thermal damage and that normally ogre II are > praetor II because of the higher base damage it gets a bit more complicated with augmented drones.

While obviously augmented ogres deal more raw dps than Ogres II they now deal a big bunch of kinetic damage which actually applicates worse to blood raiders.
ogres II are better than praetors II because of the higher base damage which offsets the better resistance of blood raiders to thermal damage. But is this still in place when you use augmented praetors?

Anyone that knows a bit more about this & that could help me? :)
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-02-04 00:34:22 UTC
regular ogre IIs will do the most damage.

Art of Explosions
Paranoid Loyd
#3 - 2015-02-04 01:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Suki, is pretty reliable when it comes to info so I would trust her word over mine, but I thought the gap had at least been narrowed to negligible if not crossed when changes were made to the drones a few months back.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2015-02-04 03:33:27 UTC
you would have to run it against a database of NPC ship resistances, looks like blood battleship resists run from 40 70 60 50 to 49 79 69 59 em/exp/kin/therm From there put it in a spread sheet and allocate dps and damage types, and should fairly quickly have an answer. at a glance ogres look pretty good, augmented praetors might have a chance, but at 200m a pop in jita right now, well I wouldn't bother.

http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php?supergroup=8&return_to=

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#5 - 2015-02-04 06:55:05 UTC
I use amarr drones against blood and sansha
They have low em resist than thermal by 10
I did some math amarr drones deal more damage than gallente. I know gallente has best dps but not best against them
I use gallente drones against mercenary
Sturmwolke
#6 - 2015-02-04 06:59:53 UTC
Ogre II :
Base dmg is 122.9 (1.92x64) thermal.
Base 4.2 + 5 km optimal.
Base orbit rad/sec is 0.107
Base tracking is 0.54
Base speed 1200 m/s
Base dmg vs Blood @55% thermal resist = 55.3 dmg

Praetor II :
Base dmg is 107.5 (1.68x64) EM.
Base 4.8 + 4km optimal.
Base orbit rad/sec is 0.120 (-11%)
Base tracking is 0.756 (+40%)
Base speed 1656 m/s (+38%)
Base dmg vs Blood @45% EM resist = 59.1 dmg (+6.9%)

Everything indicates the Praetor II to be significantly superior vs Blood (EM vs Thermal resist delta is 10%) for dmg, speed and tracking ... in theory.
Now, someone go test and run the combat logs to confirm this holds true in practice :P
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2015-02-04 07:14:52 UTC
Take a look at sheet 2; I finally updated this thing. Ogres are no longer king. Praetor IIs now win.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#8 - 2015-02-04 13:48:21 UTC
In practice they are about equal. Praetor IIs do slightly better against Blood shields and armor. Ogre IIs make it up the second the target is in hull (which has zero resists).
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-02-04 14:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Take a look at sheet 2; I finally updated this thing. Ogres are no longer king. Praetor IIs now win.


there's nothing on there oO?

EDIT: nvm failed to load for some reason.

But yeah looks like praetors really are better now, I didn't calculate it accurately.

Literally went into EFT and and compared their dps on an isthar and subtracted 10% from ogres. Guess my maths in my head was off :p

Art of Explosions
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#10 - 2015-02-04 15:31:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
In practice they are about equal. Praetor IIs do slightly better against Blood shields and armor. Ogre IIs make it up the second the target is in hull (which has zero resists).

Praetors will kill before you launch Ogres
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-02-04 15:47:56 UTC
Mr Mac wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
In practice they are about equal. Praetor IIs do slightly better against Blood shields and armor. Ogre IIs make it up the second the target is in hull (which has zero resists).

Praetors will kill before you launch Ogres


not saying to switch to ogres when in hull, it's time taken for ogre vs praetor with the hull dps taken into account.

Art of Explosions
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#12 - 2015-02-04 15:57:53 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Mr Mac wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
In practice they are about equal. Praetor IIs do slightly better against Blood shields and armor. Ogre IIs make it up the second the target is in hull (which has zero resists).

Praetors will kill before you launch Ogres


not saying to switch to ogres when in hull, it's time taken for ogre vs praetor with the hull dps taken into account.


This.

At the end of the day, if the target is an NPC battleship, Ogres and Praetors have almost identical TTK (Time to Kill).
My null sec pve characters pretty much live in the Querious/Delve area (again, I've PVE'd everywhere with those same toons) and I've done time trials with both types of drone, from both bonused (Dominix, Ishtar, Navy Vex, Armageddon) and unbonused hulls (Machariel, Typhoon fleet Issue etc).

There isn't enough difference between Amarr and Gallente drones against em/therm weak targets to even worry about it.