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un-NDA the NDA

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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#1 - 2015-02-02 21:19:00 UTC
I would like to know if the NDA is stifling and/or narrowing out of game opinions from bloggers, podcasters, and other eve media persona.

I would like the NDA not to fall under the NDA, and like the CSM White Paper to be open to the public,
so future CSM candidates know what to expect between a future role as CSM member and CCP games before signing the NDA Cool

source: http://jestertrek.blogspot.nl/2013/05/csm8-status-week-zero.html

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
DJ FunkyBacon
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
Monkeys with Guns.
#2 - 2015-02-02 23:20:36 UTC
Well as Jester pointed out in his post, the NDA is under NDA. Should it be public? I don't see why not, but it's not my call, or anyone on the CSM's call to make. I can tell you that it doesn't restrict us from giving our opinions on things, but it needs to kept in mind when talking about anything related to the CSM. Many CSM members will err on the side of caution, since breaking the NDA can have RL consequences above and beyond anything done in game.

Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado.

funkybacon.com - Blog

FunkyBacon on Twitter
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#3 - 2015-02-03 10:15:03 UTC
  • The NDA can cause an altered mind set, meaning a blogger, podcaster or other eve media personality was about to comment on a topic but then either has to refrain or reword or alter his/her opinion entirely that he/she had in mind.

    • Sometimes this can be a good thing though, I often type a reply or view and leave it there not hitting enter, coming back later to look at the meaning/wording and if it conveys the message properly.

    For your example: Not bringing up Confluence because you assumed that particular site itself was NDA.

    source: http://funkybacon.blogspot.nl/2015/02/a-response-to-ccp-leeloo.html

  • When the NDA is made public a better discussion can be had with CSM members imho, because you either know when they hide behind the NDA is bullocks.

    • Sion Kumitomo wrote:
    Sion said that the CSM hides behind the NDA more than CCP does, because the CSM can call CCP on
    stuff, but CCP can't call the CSM on stuff. There's a lot of information that gets hidden behind the NDA,
    so the CSM has to police and call out itself.

    source page 12: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM9-WS-D4.pdf

  • Last in the media you're used to being able to have any discussion on any topic quite freely, to interview and talk to anyone, and you're not held up with concerns for the NDA or who's feelings you might brush providing we're doing our jobs properly.

    • source: http://funkybacon.blogspot.nl/2015/02/aftermath-of-pissing-contest.html

    So it is my opinion that the NDA must be made public like the CSM White Paper, so we can a more healthy CSM discussion in the end Cool

    Eve online is :

    A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

    D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

    http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

    http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
    Steve Ronuken
    Fuzzwork Enterprises
    Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
    #4 - 2015-02-03 12:10:59 UTC
    The actual contents of the NDA are, pretty much, trivial.

    'Don't talk about things which CCP talked with you about, but hasn't ok'ed you to talk about'.

    As you might expect.

    Woo! CSM XI!

    Fuzzwork Enterprises

    Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
    Malcanis
    Vanishing Point.
    The Initiative.
    #5 - 2015-02-03 12:36:22 UTC
    Steve Ronuken wrote:
    The actual contents of the NDA are, pretty much, trivial.

    'Don't talk about things which CCP talked with you about, but hasn't ok'ed you to talk about'.

    As you might expect.


    After a while it can get kind of hard to remember where you heard things from.

    "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

    Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
    DJ FunkyBacon
    Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
    Monkeys with Guns.
    #6 - 2015-02-03 18:55:37 UTC
    Malcanis wrote:
    Steve Ronuken wrote:
    The actual contents of the NDA are, pretty much, trivial.

    'Don't talk about things which CCP talked with you about, but hasn't ok'ed you to talk about'.

    As you might expect.


    After a while it can get kind of hard to remember where you heard things from.


    Which is why you err on the side of caution. If not 100% sure you got info from someplace public, don't talk about it.

    Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado.

    funkybacon.com - Blog

    FunkyBacon on Twitter
    Lykouleon
    Noble Sentiments
    Second Empire.
    #7 - 2015-02-03 21:32:04 UTC
    NDAs themselves are fairly boilerplate legal documents. I haven't seen CCP's NDA for the CSM, but I can fairly guess what the provisions of the CSM NDA are. Very likely, unless there's a provision about the wearing of underwear during all times while communicating with the CSM and CCP, the provisions of the NDA are standard for any tech/gaming entity.

    That all being said, I sincerely doubt CCP would alter their NDA even if it was made public and members of the community started having hissy-fits about certain provisions. It's a legal document, not a guide or a public accounting statement.

    Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
    Elenahina
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #8 - 2015-02-04 21:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenahina
    Lykouleon wrote:
    NDAs themselves are fairly boilerplate legal documents. I haven't seen CCP's NDA for the CSM, but I can fairly guess what the provisions of the CSM NDA are. Very likely, unless there's a provision about the wearing of underwear during all times while communicating with the CSM and CCP, the provisions of the NDA are standard for any tech/gaming entity.

    That all being said, I sincerely doubt CCP would alter their NDA even if it was made public and members of the community started having hissy-fits about certain provisions. It's a legal document, not a guide or a public accounting statement.


    Pretty much this.

    NDAs exist for one reason - to protect some party that needs to share information (CCP) with some other party (CSM) to facilitate operation. That is their sole purpose. It wouldn't matter if you knew the exact provisions of CCP's NDA to the CSM - it's very unlikely they would change it, just because doing so could limit the protection of the data they're sharing, and that is not in the company's best interests.

    Every NDA I have ever signed boils down to the following:
    "We are going to tell you things we would not otherwise share, because we have no choice. If you blab about this information, we will sue you so hard, we will literally own your DNA."

    Government NDAs tend to include the phrase :"...and possibly charge you with treason or violation of national security and lock you up for the rest of your natural life".

    Violating an NDA is not something one does on a whim. The reprecussions may not necessarily stop at "ZOMG PERMA-BAND!"

    Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
    Steve Ronuken
    Fuzzwork Enterprises
    Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
    #9 - 2015-02-04 22:09:40 UTC
    The only things which are of any real interest to players (wrt the nda), are the things behind the NDA.

    Which aren't specified in the NDA other than 'what we tell you'. And exposing /those/ kind of negates the whole idea of the NDA.

    (and it's a constantly growing list. All the random chats in private CSM/CCP channels are covered.)

    Woo! CSM XI!

    Fuzzwork Enterprises

    Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
    Freelancer117
    So you want to be a Hero
    #10 - 2015-02-06 11:10:41 UTC
    There is at least one CSM 9 member, Sion Kumitomo, who wants to push for greater CSM Transparency and a more open system.

    Sion Kumitomo wrote:
    Locked doors and closed rooms do not serve democratic institutions well. They lead to abuses and excesses even amongst those of us who should certainly know better.


    A first step could be to un-NDA the NDA so in the near future we can have more open debates about the CSM and it's members.

    Making the NDA public would show debaters, eve media and the voting constituents the bounds (currently placed on the CSM by CCPgames) within the CSM can operate Cool

    source: http://www.themittani.com/features/transparency-and-funkybacon

    Eve online is :

    A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

    D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

    http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

    http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
    Freelancer117
    So you want to be a Hero
    #11 - 2015-02-06 13:27:25 UTC
    Freelancer117 wrote:
    Making the NDA public would show debaters, eve media and the voting constituents the bounds (currently placed on the CSM by CCPgames) within the CSM can operate


    adding to this:

    It also show HOW to phrase a question towards a CSM member or the CSM as a whole, so they can answer it without saying NDA Cool

    Eve online is :

    A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

    D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

    http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

    http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
    Lykouleon
    Noble Sentiments
    Second Empire.
    #12 - 2015-02-08 01:28:19 UTC
    Freelancer117 wrote:
    Making the NDA public would show debaters, eve media and the voting constituents the bounds (currently placed on the CSM by CCPgames) within the CSM can operate Cool

    Again. NDAs are typically boiler-plate legal documents. Go and google an NDA and you'll probably find most of, if not all of, the language found in the CSM NDA minus specific content that is applicable to CCP/the CSM/etc.

    After that we can discuss the joys of red lining...(which I sincerely doubt happens with the CSM NDA, but who knows!)

    Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
    Freelancer117
    So you want to be a Hero
    #13 - 2015-02-08 12:45:41 UTC
    Lykouleon wrote:

    Again. NDAs are typically boiler-plate legal documents. Go and google an NDA and you'll probably find most of, if not all of, the language found in the CSM NDA minus specific content that is applicable to CCP/the CSM/etc.

    After that we can discuss the joys of red lining...(which I sincerely doubt happens with the CSM NDA, but who knows!)


    I hope a future CSM Transparency initiative invalidate any non applicable claim of NDA by a CSM member, even if the NDA is not un-NDA-ed Cool

    Eve online is :

    A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

    D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

    http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

    http://bit.ly/1egr4mF