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Complete removal of wormhole api stats
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Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#1 - 2011-12-01 02:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Messoroz
It appears with the patch an lopsided change has occured to the API statistics for wormhole space. Jumps were removed.


So I suggest ALL wormhole statistics be fixed entirely. It is simply unbalanced for the "defenders" living in the hole to have the NPC kill statistics publically broadcasted, much the same way for "attackers" had it unbalanced that their statistics were publically broadcast.

It also makes no sense from a RP point of view as there is not great overlord watching over wspace like concord does in kspace, the mysterious entity that records NPC kills but not wormhole jumps shouldn't exist.
Tyslas
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-12-01 02:56:01 UTC
+1

Fix them all.
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-12-01 03:17:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tahna Rouspel
Sure, why not! This will make wormholes even more dark and mysterious :3

On another side, it would be nice to easily tell what the wormholes bonus are without having to learn them by heart. It should be in the info tab of the system.
Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#4 - 2011-12-01 18:59:17 UTC
agree
Lucius Arcturus
Peoples Capitalist Liberation Front
#5 - 2011-12-01 19:01:44 UTC
So should all statistics be removed, including jumps? Or only NPC kills?

CAPLF WH Sales

Capitalization in EVE Online
Malkev
Tribal Liberation Force
#6 - 2011-12-01 21:54:40 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
On another side, it would be nice to easily tell what the wormholes bonus are without having to learn them by heart. It should be in the info tab of the system.

Just look at the system background, that's all you need.

And I approve of this.
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#7 - 2011-12-02 10:08:53 UTC
Agree.

Get rid of all stats.

I dont see concord out here collecting info so it has to go ;)
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#8 - 2011-12-02 15:51:17 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
Sure, why not! This will make wormholes even more dark and mysterious :3

On another side, it would be nice to easily tell what the wormholes bonus are without having to learn them by heart. It should be in the info tab of the system.


The contradictory factor in this post is astounding.

You support making wormholes more dark and mysterious, yet you want more information on what wormhole bonus may be affecting a system? I think you need to rethink that buddy.
D'Tell Annoh
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2011-12-02 16:07:55 UTC
I completely disagree. I disagree with the removal of the API data for wormholes, and I object to removing any more data from them.

Consider what it takes to live in a wormhole. There is no local, there is no CONCORD, there is no market, there is no moon mining, no sovereignty, no jump clones, no static asteroid belts, no ice fields, no regularly spawning rats. If you're podkilled you get ejected to k-space and have to wait until there's an opening that you can get back through. You live under the constant threat of ambush, and must pound d-scan to have any degree of personal security. It's already incredibly challenging to make a life in that sandbox. Making it harder does not make it more mysterious, it makes it more annoying.

The API data was a small advantage that could give a wormhole settler some idea of activity in the system. It wasn't real time information, jumps (like kills) show up up to an hour after the fact. It takes resourcefulness and dedication to utilize the API.

Messoroz wrote:
It also makes no sense from a RP point of view as there is not great overlord watching over wspace like concord does in kspace, the mysterious entity that records NPC kills but not wormhole jumps shouldn't exist.


CONCORD doesn't watch over nulsec either, so should the API data be removed there, too?

If you want an RP explanation, try this. Jumping the vast distances of space has many subtle, yet far reaching effects on spacetime. Technologies used by modern capsuleers allows them to roughly interpret these effects and estimate the number of jumps to or from a given system. It's not CONCORD keeping track, it is your ship detecting quantum particle spin aggregation through a Eilfer matrix; which we all know is standard issue in navigation computers.

Don't make living in wormholes harder than it already is. Especially at the behest of wormhole tourists and gankers who already have enough advantages over the inhabitants.

Do any of the people who +1'd actually live in a wormhole?
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#10 - 2011-12-02 16:18:52 UTC
Agree. Remove everything. Jumps, NPC kills, ship kills, pod kills. (though those last two will show up on killboards, but that requires a bit more work).

Wormholes should be "the unknown" they advertise themselves as.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#11 - 2011-12-02 17:03:59 UTC
D'Tell Annoh wrote:
I completely disagree. I disagree with the removal of the API data for wormholes, and I object to removing any more data from them.

Consider what it takes to live in a wormhole. There is no local, there is no CONCORD, there is no market, there is no moon mining, no sovereignty, no jump clones, no static asteroid belts, no ice fields, no regularly spawning rats. If you're podkilled you get ejected to k-space and have to wait until there's an opening that you can get back through. You live under the constant threat of ambush, and must pound d-scan to have any degree of personal security. It's already incredibly challenging to make a life in that sandbox. Making it harder does not make it more mysterious, it makes it more annoying.

The API data was a small advantage that could give a wormhole settler some idea of activity in the system. It wasn't real time information, jumps (like kills) show up up to an hour after the fact. It takes resourcefulness and dedication to utilize the API.

Messoroz wrote:
It also makes no sense from a RP point of view as there is not great overlord watching over wspace like concord does in kspace, the mysterious entity that records NPC kills but not wormhole jumps shouldn't exist.


CONCORD doesn't watch over nulsec either, so should the API data be removed there, too?

If you want an RP explanation, try this. Jumping the vast distances of space has many subtle, yet far reaching effects on spacetime. Technologies used by modern capsuleers allows them to roughly interpret these effects and estimate the number of jumps to or from a given system. It's not CONCORD keeping track, it is your ship detecting quantum particle spin aggregation through a Eilfer matrix; which we all know is standard issue in navigation computers.

Don't make living in wormholes harder than it already is. Especially at the behest of wormhole tourists and gankers who already have enough advantages over the inhabitants.

Do any of the people who +1'd actually live in a wormhole?


God forbid you actually have to face the unknown in unknown space....
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-12-02 17:14:49 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
Sure, why not! This will make wormholes even more dark and mysterious :3

On another side, it would be nice to easily tell what the wormholes bonus are without having to learn them by heart. It should be in the info tab of the system.


The contradictory factor in this post is astounding.

You support making wormholes more dark and mysterious, yet you want more information on what wormhole bonus may be affecting a system? I think you need to rethink that buddy.


Wormhole bonus is a static information; jumps and kills are dynamic information.

You may see it as a contradiction, but it actually makes perfect sense when you compare it to other bonuses.

Take your ship, would you prefer if the bonus were hidden and were only available on a website? Would this make it more 'mysterious'? No, it doesn't. It just makes it a hassle to remember all the bonus by heart.
Same thing with wormholes bonus; it would be nice to have that information available in game. Right now, what we have is a message for half a second after we jump saying "Your ships is being affect by the system..." - I'm not entirely sure what it says since I never get to read it all. It's easy to tell the wormhole bonus from the background though, so bonus are not something hidden; you only need to do a research on the web and connect the dots. I would just like to have that information available in the game.

In short, wormhole bonus being unknown does not add to the mystery of the wormhole, so it's not a contradiction.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#13 - 2011-12-02 18:12:48 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:


Wormhole bonus is a static information; jumps and kills are dynamic information.



Its still information. The lack of information would mean unknown. The fact that information is provided means that is one less thing that is "unknown." The way it should have been:

no static dump of the information...no CCP provided information on exactly numbers for what changes were made

Imagine that. All you received was a message "weird effects on your ship" and you could see some changes in space. Now it would be on the players to figure out what exactly is changed. It would be on the players to face the unknown and possibly decipher it.

Would it be harder? Absolutely. Would players eventually compile the information into a database? Probably.

But at least we would truly have to endure the Unknown. Its easy mode right now.
D'Tell Annoh
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2011-12-02 23:05:16 UTC  |  Edited by: D'Tell Annoh
Emperor Salazar wrote:
God forbid you actually have to face the unknown in unknown space....
I realize that the words "unknown" and "mysterious" are frequently used when discussing wormholes, but I think you're being too literal if you interpret those word as some kind of mandate. Wormholes are what CCP makes them to be, and I think it is a bad idea to further limit a third of the systems in the game in pursuit of an adjective.

If the best argument for removing the API is because it increases ignorance, then I don't see it as justified. Under the same argument, one could crusade to make d-scan useless in wormholes, or to make static wormholes to go to random places, or to make it impossible to tell how long a wormhole will stay open or how much mass it can take. In the pursuit of "I have no idea what is going on" you could stop showing the names of anomalies and let the pilots roll the dice and see if they land on grid at a Class 1 Perimeter Camp or a Class 6 Core Bastion. All of these examples make things more unknown, and all of these ideas are dumb.

If you need a word to cling to, try Arcane or esoteric.
Pascaali
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2011-12-03 06:37:04 UTC
THIS IS A MASSIVE (pun intended) PROBLEM FOR WH DWELLERS. Please read

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38830&find=unread
Malkev
Tribal Liberation Force
#16 - 2011-12-06 21:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Malkev
D'Tell Annoh wrote:
It takes resourcefulness and dedication to utilize the API.

It takes a ton of resourcefulness and dedication to set your IGB homepage to Wormnav/Staticmapper/Dotlan and check the data laid out in front of you?

Quote:

Do any of the people who +1'd actually live in a wormhole?

*waves*
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-12-06 22:08:43 UTC
Considering that Sleeper kills are at best a very unreliable proxy for wormhole activity, and that PvP kills are available anyway through the efforts that already have been made to compile combat logs, I support this given that wormhole jump data is meant to stay gone. It would make no sense to reintroduce jump data without the Sleeper kill statistics, in my mind.
D'Tell Annoh
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2011-12-07 16:03:17 UTC
Malkev wrote:
D'Tell Annoh wrote:
It takes resourcefulness and dedication to utilize the API.

It takes a ton of resourcefulness and dedication to set your IGB homepage to Wormnav/Staticmapper/Dotlan and check the data laid out in front of you?
Touche'.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-12-08 11:49:22 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
Sure, why not! This will make wormholes even more dark and mysterious :3

On another side, it would be nice to easily tell what the wormholes bonus are without having to learn them by heart. It should be in the info tab of the system.


Agreed. Any negative/positive effects should be clearly displayed on your ship fittings window also.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...