Player Features and Ideas Discussion

lol and if you really do want the ore not just the PvP drop in the same areas a few times and people start ignoring your fleets



(or bring more guns themselfs still a win in my book)

Not really. Eve runs on a Risk vs Reward system. Mining in High Sec is extremely low risk and requires very little investment on the part of the player (very short training time to maximize rewards compared to other professions). If you want to increase your rewards you need to increase your risk. For mining that means Low Sec, Null Sec, or WH Space.

Adding NPC buy orders would simply cap the price of ore, not grant you a boon of additional income.

It is the Levels 4 and Incursions that are unbalanced in Hisecks.

Lower their respective incomes by 50%.

Miners do the same thing as people who run FW and pay high prices on LP stor goods for 0.0001% profit margins, sometimes even losses if they don't factor out the odds and ends and make sure.

If I buy something at LP store for 10 mil and 10k LP, and it only sells for 11 mil, Im probably throwing my LP and my time/effort to get said LP completely away. This might be fine for chinese ISK farmers, but it should not be okay for any legitimate player, who values his/her real world time.

The same should hold true for miners and other industrial type players. If the market is going to make the time you spent worth only 5 or 10 mil an hour even though you worked long and hard in a video game,maybe you need to not be selling to the market at that point.


https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/listcorpbuy.php

See that red stuff? That means you're losing value buying those to sell on market. How can stuff get to that point? Because there's people out there mindless enough to keep doing that. Supply and demand, here. If this weren't true, if people stopped trying to sell that item, you'd see a decrease in supply for the same demand, and prices should rise. The reason prices don't rise is because people work harder to sell for less money instead of opting out until prices rise again, moving to another thing to sell, etc.

Economics is a hard lesson, and most people want to play the game instead of learn, ironically forcing them not to have fun because they aren't playing the game well and getting what they want from the game.



Here's an idea for everyone who doesn't want to think about things too much. Collect goods. Spam them into the market sell order. If the price isn't GREEN, showing that you're getting above the average value, DO NOT SELL. Otherwise, sell.

If its something you really want to sell, then put a sell order up modified until the price is GREEN, that is, the price for selling a unit of it is above the regional average.

Leave it like that.



Simple, quick, can earn you money sometimes soon sometimes later, but then you can go off and do other things for fun with your time in EvE, instead of grinding away even more to keep making very marginal profit margins.

PIBKAC. How many people keep mining veld even though everyone right now is saying not to mine it? Don't blame the game or us if you're sharding your game/life time for a few milliion isk an hour.


In the real world, when a mining company cannot find itself sustaining eonomic growt from its current source, it moves onto something else. Now, what could be a really nice cash haul right now? ABC ores? Gas? hmm. Maybe a change of scenery and resource mining would inflate those wallets, while also causing a supply drop for low ends, which raises prices?

Sorry, cap is somewhat ambiguous, the correct term would be something more like floor. Basically if there are NPC buy orders the price of ore can never go below that or no one will sell it at that price. The problem with this (at least economically) is that it simultaneously drives up prices everywhere else. Basically miners can never make more than some base percentage of the value of the ships everyone is selling because the price of those ships is based off of the price of ore and the state of the market. As the market inflates the miner's buying power remains roughly the same, with fluctuations for different goods based on their price.

The problem with the rest of what you're suggesting is it would kill the player-driven economy dead which is the core of Eve and one of its main selling points.

You want a steady income, you already have it. Mining is fairly reliable and if you really need to you can always fall back on mining missions, which are effectively an NPC buy order, but one priced so low as to have no effect on the market since maybe 2004. If you feel your ore is worth more then go find a bunch of miners who feel similarly and go corner the market or something.

You want a fake economy with NPCs running it try some other MMO, Eve is not the game for you.

The ironic part is that the people that the New Order targets are the only ones with significant capability to do this. They never will though because it requires large scale cooperation, and opens up a market for people that support code to make huge profits.

Your thought experiment conveniently ignores real economics anyway, buying power, consumer market, blah blah. If mining iron, and selling it directly, or coal were at any points unprofitable for the companies invested in those things, they'd stop doing it. Real world mining companies do not also produce buildings. They just mine, they sell their raw material to other people. If they didn't make a profit doing this, they'd quit.

Your thought experiment is a convenient hiding of real world economics. No company invests in doing "ALL THE THINGS" to turn a profit. That's actually less profitable (in the real world) than a company focusing on one thing, and outsourcing/selling to other companies to do the rest.

I actually know someone who's had a number of businesses, and he found it easier to hire a distributing firm rather than try to sell and distribute his finished product himself. You're saying "to make profits, cut out these middlemen", but sometimes that means you work longer and harder for fractional gains to your own business.

That's real life, so your thought experiment falls flat on its face. We can translate most of "real life" to EvE anyway, because the same driving forces that cause people to go into business in real life are the same driving forces that cause people to go into a business in EvE. Some people crave a finished product, some people crave the minerals to produce said products, and some people crave the isk that comes from selling materials or the finished product.

Doesn't invalidate the fact that individuals have to run those shell companies, individuals have to run the equipment, and no one would do so without a profit motive.

The whole "you're a guy and wanna be rich? Become an oil rig worker!" spiel is a thing for a reason.

Their income is largely volume and market based anyways. if ship demand suddenly doubled, and industrialists could realize profits on buying more minerals at higher prices, prices would go up, so those able to sell their minerals would make more.

Who are you to say that mining for 10 hours a day to have some reasonable profit in mining isn't health destroying? Sitting all day/office jobs destroy health just as much as any oil rig work. I'd wager oil rig work is actually better, barring catastrophic accidents, given the physical nature of it and the fact that we absolutely know physical activity is vitally important to human vitality, purge reactive oxygen species, build immunity, reduce stress damage to our cells and mitochondria through a healthier body, all that crap.

And yes, people can "do it all themselves", but the bottleneck then becomes the pyhsical time an individual has to put into playing the game. I'd wager most people can't put food on their IRL tables spamming EvE, so it is or should be worth it for individuals to focus on individual jobs within EvE and collaborate with haulers, traders, etc, to do things themselves. Like my example of the person I know who outsourced his product logistics to a distribution company because it actually improved his lifestyle and wallet as well, the same holds true of EvE in game. If you're sacrificing a lot to make "all the isk yourself", you're losing out on the best turnover and value in contracting to other companies, or just selling a raw material or unfinished good on the market.