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Amarrian shame...

Author
Reinhelm
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-01-28 23:05:26 UTC
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. Is there anything I can do from a role-playing perspective that would make me feel like I'm doing some good for the universe while living in Amarr High-sec?

I try to immerse myself in eve as much as I can. Aesthetically, I think Amarrian space is by far the most beautiful, so I'd like to stick around there.

I'm not sure if what I'm asking makes sense to anyone else, but any help will do!
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#2 - 2015-01-29 14:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
Reinhelm wrote:
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. Is there anything I can do from a role-playing perspective that would make me feel like I'm doing some good for the universe while living in Amarr High-sec?

I try to immerse myself in eve as much as I can. Aesthetically, I think Amarrian space is by far the most beautiful, so I'd like to stick around there.

I'm not sure if what I'm asking makes sense to anyone else, but any help will do!


Just do like I did, I relocated to the Gallente Federation to do good. My RP-bio even states I was disowned from my father for my heretical views on Democracy (good) and Monarchy (bad).

If you're that dead set on living in Amarr-HighSec just do stuff like running missions for non-Amarr corporations over there. A lot of NPC-corps have stations and agents in Amarr-HighSec. Besides, not all in Amarrland is bad, the pirates over there are so evil you can always shoot them and feel better about yourself. P
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#3 - 2015-01-29 15:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Well the thing to keep in mind is that what Amarr considers good does not always fit in with typically western morals. The slavery thing, for example, is a case were many Amarr really do believe they are doing good (but not all, of course). Additionally, as a culture Amarr tends towards being very pro-active about charity and helping people, even if the ways in which they do are not always positive. One example is Ardishapur's Body and Soul program. Consider that the introduction video for Amarr does state that while it is an empire that is capable of evil, it is also capable of good, selfless acts.

If you are wanting for something more towards what is usually considered good, then perhaps look into Joint Harvesting. Also consider Aritcio Kor-Azor and the Kor-Azor Family. Aritcio has gone on to be a rather positive person since his transformation a few years ago, to the point that many RPers refer to him as the Amarrian Batman. You can read a chronicle on him here. Ergo, you could consider running missions for either of these groups (though due to EVE's archaic mission system, the type of missions given will probably not be different from those received from any other Amarr NPC corporation).

Another thing is that, on the Niarja-Kaaputen border, people going into Kaaputen often jettison cans of slaves into space to avoid customs. These cans expire in 2 hours. Rescuing the people from these cans whenever you pass by the area is a good way to feel positive, and one player corp that did so regularly was acknowledged in official news some years ago. You can usually tell if one is there by if you see a 'yellow' can on the Kaaputen gate in Niarja. These cans can also be found in other areas, so taking the time to stop and check any 'yellow' can as you travel can be a good idea.

Anything that evokes Heideran VII and the Pax Amarria is also something you may want to consider. I can't exactly say what you can do in-game since I don't know what you do or want to do, but it's certainly something to keep in mind as a guide with what you do in-space. In general, Pax Amarrian actions tend to be anything that encourages peace and diplomacy over war and conflict.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2015-02-15 22:21:38 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:


If you are wanting for something more towards what is usually considered good, then perhaps look into Joint Harvesting. Also consider Aritcio Kor-Azor and the Kor-Azor Family. Aritcio has gone on to be a rather positive person since his transformation a few years ago, to the point that many RPers refer to him as the Amarrian Batman. You can read a chronicle on him here. Ergo, you could consider running missions for either of these groups (though due to EVE's archaic mission system, the type of missions given will probably not be different from those received from any other Amarr NPC corporation).


Actually one of the things that got me into amarr rp was reading about the Kor-Azor heir. Vulxanis has tried to emulate him in his policies regarding the welfare of his people. Ofc, this has gotten a mixed ic reaction from people who don't understand the amarr perspective (Samira did a good job explaining that). Like his policies on slaves and such are very liberal, and he genuinely believes he is doing right by the people under him.

I'm a history buff, and so the Amarr empire really appealed to me. But I also went through a "How can I justify playing as this race if they are so horrible??" phase. There are a ton of evelopedia links that talk about the amarr mentality, and I eventually found some that I heavily incorporated into my character. If you want me to expand on that feel free to mail me.

As an Amarr, you will always eventually end up meeting characters who absolutely hate you with every fiber of their being. This is from ignorance, people hating organized religious societies, etc. Long list of reasons, but most of it has to do with ignorance, irl political opinions, or they like the underdog minmatar or the Gallente better. Each has their own appeal.

However, if you roleplay your character to be a man of honor, you can actually get it so people may at least respect him even if they don't agree with his ideas. For example, vulx ICly is respected by some minmatar and gallente who are known anti-slavery advocates, who even consider him an honorable man, because of how he treats the people under him.

So as to avoid tooting my own horn for much longer, Simira made excellent points of how the amarr are capable of doing great good as well. Really, all 4 factions have dirty little secrets and legit reasons to hate them, not just the amarr. People just like to dog on the amarr and forget that the other 4 factions have dirty laundry too.

What it boils down to is your own enjoyment of the game. Every faction has positives and negatives about them. It's mainly what appeals to you most. They all have rich history, and I strongly suggest reading the chronicles and wiki pages on the amarr.

If you have any questions, feel free to send me a mail.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Davey Talvanen
Kingsparrow Wormhole Division
Birds of Prey.
#5 - 2015-02-17 22:41:48 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Reinhelm wrote:
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. Is there anything I can do from a role-playing perspective that would make me feel like I'm doing some good for the universe while living in Amarr High-sec?

I try to immerse myself in eve as much as I can. Aesthetically, I think Amarrian space is by far the most beautiful, so I'd like to stick around there.

I'm not sure if what I'm asking makes sense to anyone else, but any help will do!


Just do like I did, I relocated to the Gallente Federation to do good. My RP-bio even states I was disowned from my father for my heretical views on Democracy (good) and Monarchy (bad).

If you're that dead set on living in Amarr-HighSec just do stuff like running missions for non-Amarr corporations over there. A lot of NPC-corps have stations and agents in Amarr-HighSec. Besides, not all in Amarrland is bad, the pirates over there are so evil you can always shoot them and feel better about yourself. P


The gallente are evil human rights abusers who are as bad as the Amarr. They found the struggling Caldari state living in a barren planet and enslaved us as the US enslavd their natives. Imposing laws and treatys whilt killing us and then claiming "FREEDOM" when we tried to break away and taking our home world
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#6 - 2015-02-17 23:14:58 UTC
Davey Talvanen wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Reinhelm wrote:
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. Is there anything I can do from a role-playing perspective that would make me feel like I'm doing some good for the universe while living in Amarr High-sec?

I try to immerse myself in eve as much as I can. Aesthetically, I think Amarrian space is by far the most beautiful, so I'd like to stick around there.

I'm not sure if what I'm asking makes sense to anyone else, but any help will do!


Just do like I did, I relocated to the Gallente Federation to do good. My RP-bio even states I was disowned from my father for my heretical views on Democracy (good) and Monarchy (bad).

If you're that dead set on living in Amarr-HighSec just do stuff like running missions for non-Amarr corporations over there. A lot of NPC-corps have stations and agents in Amarr-HighSec. Besides, not all in Amarrland is bad, the pirates over there are so evil you can always shoot them and feel better about yourself. P


The gallente are evil human rights abusers who are as bad as the Amarr. They found the struggling Caldari state living in a barren planet and enslaved us as the US enslavd their natives. Imposing laws and treatys whilt killing us and then claiming "FREEDOM" when we tried to break away and taking our home world


The Gallente brought the light of democracy and civilization to the Caldari like we brought civilization to the Minmatar, the Caldari should be thankful for this lesson.
Eli Strange
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2015-02-23 02:40:21 UTC
I created an Minmatar Alt, who fights in the faction wars against Amarr and pirate in AMARR space. My main funds his operations and such.
Delitfol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-02-24 15:56:17 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
[

The Gallente brought the light of democracy and civilization to the Caldari like we brought civilization to the Minmatar, the Caldari should be thankful for this lesson.


Get rid off that idea holmes, you brought nothing good to my people.
Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#9 - 2015-03-23 21:53:09 UTC
One way could be to do Sisters of EVE Missions. I do not know how many are in Amarrian Space, but they could make your character feel better. My main (Dailar Toralen) used to be a patriotic Caldari, but due to complications during the first cloning process, he became a lot less patriotic after his second clone was activated as he remembered what had happened to his family. A brief summary is that his parents used to work for Lai Dai Industries (I think I may have got the name wrong) as diplomats to the Amarrians and Khanid Kingdom, and after his parents discovered Lai Dai Industries worked with the Guristas, they were forced out of Caldari Space. He has a Intaki half-brother, and his family slowly but surely began to reprosper and eventually created Toralen Industries. He spent a few years searching for his brother who had disappeared, and eventually found him as a slave in Amarrian Space due to an inability pay for the narcotics he had secretly been addicted to. Dailar then came back and watched his families Corporation fall due to the Guristas, and he served in the Caldari Navy while his brother served in the Gallente Navy and they nearly killed each other over Caldari Prime. Since then, both have left Navy service and Dailar has become a Capsuleer, served with Discovery (which is being closed) and now refounded his families Corporation with several other Capsuleers and fights for the Amarrian Empire against the Minmatars while also having more peaceful operations as well in both Caldari and Amarrian Space.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-04-07 02:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: The Leopardess
Reinhelm wrote:
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. Is there anything I can do from a role-playing perspective that would make me feel like I'm doing some good for the universe while living in Amarr High-sec?

I try to immerse myself in eve as much as I can. Aesthetically, I think Amarrian space is by far the most beautiful, so I'd like to stick around there.

I'm not sure if what I'm asking makes sense to anyone else, but any help will do!


First off, you're not Amarr, your character is. That's where some of the trouble might be coming from. Amarrians often believe they are doing good selling slaves, annihilating Minmatar and worshipping their fiery god. Your character is a product of a society which is bombarded with certain ideas just as you are the product of a society where slavery and religion are viewed negatively by liberals from free countries where there's going to be a more highly educated and wealthier collection of people who can afford PC gaming. (Let's face it, lack of racism and sexism creates prosperity!)

So your character probably would not carry as much guilt.

Since you seem to want to be "yourself" in the world you may want to try a race that you naturally would be proud to be a part of. This is what I suggest new roleplayers do because it helps ease you into harder roles like evil-doers or religious or political extremists.

You can also roleplay a background that your character was adopted through some way into another race and you returned to Amarr, a stranger to it, which would explain your revulsion and guilt.

Another idea is you could roleplay a self-loathing Amarrian. Plenty self-lopathing apologists in many real religious or restrictive societies. Maybe your character had a bad childhood or had a bad experience like taking a slave as a lover only to see he or she executed.

And as Owen Levanth pointed out, the Blood Raiders are very very evil. They are cannibals and sadists, of a very disgusting class. They are just the worst kinds of people!

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴

Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#11 - 2015-04-07 12:05:02 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
Reinhelm wrote:
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. Is there anything I can do from a role-playing perspective that would make me feel like I'm doing some good for the universe while living in Amarr High-sec?

I try to immerse myself in eve as much as I can. Aesthetically, I think Amarrian space is by far the most beautiful, so I'd like to stick around there.

I'm not sure if what I'm asking makes sense to anyone else, but any help will do!


First off, you're not Amarr, your character is. That's where some of the trouble might be coming from. Amarrians often believe they are doing good selling slaves, annihilating Minmatar and worshipping their fiery god. Your character is a product of a society which is bombarded with certain ideas just as you are the product of a society where slavery and religion are viewed negatively by liberals from free countries where there's going to be a more highly educated and wealthier collection of people who can afford PC gaming. (Let's face it, lack of racism and sexism creates prosperity!)

So your character probably would not carry as much guilt.

Since you seem to want to be "yourself" in the world you may want to try a race that you naturally would be proud to be a part of. This is what I suggest new roleplayers do because it helps ease you into harder roles like evil-doers or religious or political extremists.

You can also roleplay a background that your character was adopted through some way into another race and you returned to Amarr, a stranger to it, which would explain your revulsion and guilt.

Another idea is you could roleplay a self-loathing Amarrian. Plenty self-lopathing apologists in many real religious or restrictive societies. Maybe your character had a bad childhood or had a bad experience like taking a slave as a lover only to see he or she executed.

And as Owen Levanth pointed out, the Blood Raiders are very very evil. They are cannibals and sadists, of a very disgusting class. They are just the worst kinds of people!



I completely agree, especially on the whole choosing the race that you think reminds you of well, you. This is why I chose the Caldari. They are very heavily interested in profit, but they also have ideals. They also know how to use people very, very well. For example, the Ammarians. Did you really think we fought a civil war from oppression and then allied with an Empire who keeps slaves cause we agree with there ideals? No. We allied with them because they have the best tech and the most of it in the universe, and they are already fighting the Minmatar who are allied with the Federation, so basically we get to fight our enemy with the support of the largest and most advanced Empire in the Cluster. Win win!

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

Yonis Vudori
Nefantar Research Agency
#12 - 2015-04-07 14:17:47 UTC
I guess the world is not a matter of black and white.

I am against slavery, like probably most Ammatars. Unfortunately that is not all that counts. The truth is, that without the sometimes benevolent sometimes selfish protection and guidance of the Amarr Empire our people would suffer the Minmatar's revenge and we could not live our true belief. Be proud to be Amarr!

Ok, let's step out of character:
Reinhelm, I think it is possible to play every character in every faction in a moral way, if this is what you want. As far as I remember one of the main characters in “Eve: The Burning Life” was of Blood Raider origin. I think it might even possible to play a reasonable pro Sansha activist. I considered these guys as the most evil, but different perspectives are possible. Here is an example:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/True_Slave_Foundations

You just have to create an internal logical narrative.

Yonis Vudori is sure that most of these terrible reports about misused slaves are just propaganda!

The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-04-09 00:20:09 UTC
The reason for roleplay in Amarr could be as simple as "My character likes the beauty of the space there and finds it hard to leave" or "My character accepts that humans will be humans everywhere, and that the evils the Amarr government is guilty of are no worse than the evils of the other three empires. I live here because it was made by nature's grace, not the Amarr" Focusing on the horrors of the other three empires would be a perfectly legitimate excuse for choosing Amarr because "At least they believe in punishing evildoers", "At least they believe in a higher power" or "At least they still value beauty" or something.

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴

YuuKnow
The Scope
#14 - 2015-04-18 17:01:20 UTC
Reinhelm wrote:
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. Is there anything I can do from a role-playing perspective that would make me feel like I'm doing some good for the universe while living in Amarr High-sec?


Good. You should feel shame. Amarrians suck!

yk
Cakzad Arcashiri
Arcashiri Family
#15 - 2015-04-18 19:10:57 UTC
Reinhelm wrote:
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. Is there anything I can do from a role-playing perspective that would make me feel like I'm doing some good for the universe while living in Amarr High-sec?

I try to immerse myself in eve as much as I can. Aesthetically, I think Amarrian space is by far the most beautiful, so I'd like to stick around there.

I'm not sure if what I'm asking makes sense to anyone else, but any help will do!

You could always join the CRHAO, as they are a humitarian organization in Amarr Space.

"I give to you the destiny of Faith,

And you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens:

Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."

- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Lorelei Maeve
#16 - 2015-04-18 20:15:25 UTC
To the OP:

There is no reason that you have to have your character follow a conservative Amarr path. There is such a thing as a reform movement within Amarr. Beyond making it more palatable for you it could also lead to interesting interactions and conflict with more conservative Amarr.

When one has weighed the sun in the balance, and measured the steps of the moon, and mapped out the seven heavens, there still remains oneself. Who can calculate the orbit of his own soul?

Max Singularity
House Singularity
Sixth Empire
#17 - 2015-04-20 04:16:47 UTC
Reinhelm wrote:
Given their history, I'm starting to feel guilty about being Amarr and even flying in their space, supporting their economy. ... Aesthetically, I think Amarrian space is by far the most beautiful, so I'd like to stick around there.


The Age of Redemption is at hand Pilot. Our once Golden Amarrian Empire is tainted with a poison that soon the people, and Capsuleers shall cure. Be bold pilot, a gathering storm is upon us.

Harbinger of Faith His Holiness Maximilian Singularity VI, Pope of New Eden

First Champion House Kador (defeated) - #MagnateGate

Viceroy Interview & Apostle In Amarr

Michael Takeda
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-04-20 23:47:05 UTC
I don't have any numbers to support this notion, but I've always felt that the Amarrians have the greatest proportion of avid role-players among the 4 empires. I think it may have something to do with their fascinating lore and the challenge of role-playing an interesting character despite how contrary their values run to our own in the 21st century.

I don't claim to be anywhere near a good role-player, but I've been thinking about ways to role-play an Amarr pilot without going down the stereotypical route of being holier-than-thou and trying to enslave everyone.

The best I've come up with so far is by focusing on the Reclaiming, which forms the backbone of their culture, and their positions in it as priests of the word of God.

While some Amarrians may believe that the Reclaiming is about conquering and enslaving people and raising the Amarrians above everyone in a position of superiority, an alternative view to that is to view Amarrians as being under obligation to hold true to the faith and be a beacon of hope and light in a godless universe.

The Reclaiming can be accomplished through many ways, the least of which is the use of force. Far better is to bring others into the light with thoughts and deeds, through charity, mercy and compassion. I recall reading in an article in the wiki that Amarrian naval commanders typically enslave prisoners of war because it was a better alternative to executing them out of hand.

Slavery is also a large part of Amarrian society, but their ideal of it is very different from our notion of slavery. Only specially authorized people are allowed to own slaves, and slavery represents a holy covenant between the slave and his or her owner.

It is the owner's duty to educate and enlighten their slave, with the intention of bringing them into the fold and seeing them integrate into Amarrian society. The slave, in turn, labors for their owner with the intention of spiritually purifying themselves.

In this view, Amarrian slavery ideally, is not very different from a parent patiently teaching a child. They might require punishment at times, but only in support of their growth and overall is for their greater good.

Ideally, the system would be: heathen outsider sees the error of their ways, they submit to the Amarrians and willingly enter slavery where they are taught the word of God, then finally, their owner sees that they are spiritually ready and grants them their freedom once again.

Naturally, not every Amarrian is able to or interested in holding to this ideal.

Keep in mind that this is my personal head-canon though based off the lore. It's just one of many perspectives that makes the Amarr fascinating to both role-play as and role-play with.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#19 - 2015-04-28 23:07:48 UTC
The general rationale of slave-holding empires is that it's better for the slaves as well, because without the civilizing influence of the Imperium of Whatever they would collapse into barbarism and religious despotism of the wrong, superstitious religions.

Obviously this is untrue in Eve, given the Minmatar developed interplanetary warp of their own just fine, but there's no reason your character has to believe this. Just have him point out that left to their own the clans still war between themselves, claim that they stole the tech from the Amarr whenever their science is pointed out, and maintain that they'd be better off in quality of life terms as imperial slaves.
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2015-04-29 22:35:23 UTC
Lost Greybeard wrote:
The general rationale of slave-holding empires is that it's better for the slaves as well, because without the civilizing influence of the Imperium of Whatever they would collapse into barbarism and religious despotism of the wrong, superstitious religions.

Obviously this is untrue in Eve, given the Minmatar developed interplanetary warp of their own just fine, but there's no reason your character has to believe this. Just have him point out that left to their own the clans still war between themselves, claim that they stole the tech from the Amarr whenever their science is pointed out, and maintain that they'd be better off in quality of life terms as imperial slaves.


However the current Minmatar Republic, as I understand it, is in a sort of post war state where it's governing bodies are barely able to sustain its populous, crime, tribal factionalism. While wonderful story telling concepts and bad ass plot points it would be no wonder the Amarr really do believe they are doing the right thing by keeping slaves in relative stability and and in comparatively good living conditions (depending on the Holder of course).

Of course whether or not you believe this to be true is up to your as you develop your character.
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