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Crime & Punishment

 
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End of the Awoxer? Is eve getting too soft?
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RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#161 - 2015-02-03 15:59:03 UTC
I cant wait to see the fake high sec corp that actively recruits newbies and claims that this feature is turned on. Then once the membership is high enough a mass awox of those members, oh how the tears will flow. This mechanic will not prevent awoxes it will only delay it until the awoxers find a way around it.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#162 - 2015-02-03 17:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Lan Wang wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Add wardec fees AND higher NPC corp taxes into a 'war reparations bucket', and then allow war defenders to claim a high percentage of their war losses (minus any insurance payout) against that bucket and you are really talking...

While I understand the reasoning behind this (to encourage defenders to fight), it doesn't really make sense from a practical perspective. A war in itself is legal, so compensating defenders makes no more sense than compensating attackers. I'd rather see a system in which the winner of the conflict is able to levy some kind of demand or penalty on the loser (have it be automatic via interface, contract style). Like for example, the attacker would pay a flat amount of money if it loses, and the defender would have its profits garnished via a tax, with that money then being transferred over to the attackers, for a period of time. Can even make the defender a protectorate of the attacker during that time, pulling the attacker as a defending ally in any future wars, and treating that attacker similarly as the defender during that time in case of war losses/victories.

Of course the system would need to be structured in a way that when no actual fighting/kills happen, the defender doesn't automatically win.


what a terrible idea, so huge pvp merc corp just wardecs little mining corps, profit, this would create nothing but griefing on a large scale

Actually, no, that wouldn't happen with my idea. The "little mining corp" would be able to either dissolve (with penalties for doing this, such as an inability to join another player corporation for the duration of the war), or it could use the current ally system to hire defenders. If the aggressors are actually get pushed back by the allies, then they'd become liable, and the little mining corp would profit.

It would do wonders for giving the mercenary profession some meaning, because the defenders would have an incentive to fight back, get paid, and in turn pay their mercenaries.

I would limit the ally system to one group per war for this, however, in order to prevent unbalanced ally spam.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#163 - 2015-02-03 18:03:34 UTC
Call me crazy, but I would rather see every new CEO just get auto-emailed a guide when they form a new corporation...

Chapter 1: How to survive during wars
Chapter 2: How to avoid getting ganked
Chapter 3: Using API keys with EvE jacknife & killboard reviews of new applicants to keep out AWOXers

With the bonus advice -- "Please include this email in your corporations new member welcome email, and give them the tools they will need to survive"...

Rather than, you know, CCP always defaulting to nerfing actual game mechanics for bads?

Oh i'm crazy I tell you...CRAZY

F

Would you like to know more?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#164 - 2015-02-03 18:19:08 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Call me crazy, but I would rather see every new CEO just get auto-emailed a guide when they form a new corporation...

Chapter 1: How to survive during wars
Chapter 2: How to avoid getting ganked
Chapter 3: Using API keys with EvE jacknife & killboard reviews of new applicants to keep out AWOXers

With the bonus advice -- "Please include this email in your corporations new member welcome email, and give them the tools they will need to survive"...

Rather than, you know, CCP always defaulting to nerfing actual game mechanics for bads?

Oh i'm crazy I tell you...CRAZY

F

*clicks through all the annoying info popups*

okie m8s when we go mine? i need isks loL!!

Remember what kind of people you're dealing with.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#165 - 2015-02-03 18:41:03 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Add wardec fees AND higher NPC corp taxes into a 'war reparations bucket', and then allow war defenders to claim a high percentage of their war losses (minus any insurance payout) against that bucket and you are really talking...

While I understand the reasoning behind this (to encourage defenders to fight), it doesn't really make sense from a practical perspective. A war in itself is legal, so compensating defenders makes no more sense than compensating attackers. I'd rather see a system in which the winner of the conflict is able to levy some kind of demand or penalty on the loser (have it be automatic via interface, contract style). Like for example, the attacker would pay a flat amount of money if it loses, and the defender would have its profits garnished via a tax, with that money then being transferred over to the attackers, for a period of time. Can even make the defender a protectorate of the attacker during that time, pulling the attacker as a defending ally in any future wars, and treating that attacker similarly as the defender during that time in case of war losses/victories.

Of course the system would need to be structured in a way that when no actual fighting/kills happen, the defender doesn't automatically win.


what a terrible idea, so huge pvp merc corp just wardecs little mining corps, profit, this would create nothing but griefing on a large scale

Actually, no, that wouldn't happen with my idea. The "little mining corp" would be able to either dissolve (with penalties for doing this, such as an inability to join another player corporation for the duration of the war), or it could use the current ally system to hire defenders. If the aggressors are actually get pushed back by the allies, then they'd become liable, and the little mining corp would profit.

It would do wonders for giving the mercenary profession some meaning, because the defenders would have an incentive to fight back, get paid, and in turn pay their mercenaries.

I would limit the ally system to one group per war for this, however, in order to prevent unbalanced ally spam.


All this idea is doing is making it easier for mercs to make easy isk and another kick for people who cannot fight against mercs, its just doing nothing more than trying to force your playstyle onto someobe else who doesnt want to play your game inturn probably forcing people out of the game because they cant be bother getting penalised for avoiding a war that was thrown on them for no reason every week and dont care to pay people to defend them, if you are complaining about not getting fights and "not having meaning" then find better content like everyone else does

We need to get people out of npc corps not give them more incentive to remain in them

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#166 - 2015-02-03 19:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Lan Wang wrote:
and dont care to pay people to defend them

And I don't care to pay for the goods they dump on the market. If you want them to be left alone to do their activities in peace, then give me unlimited access to any sort of item I can use/have skills for.

Lan Wang wrote:
We need to get people out of npc corps not give them more incentive to remain in them

Raise the tax from 11% to, say, 40%. Sounds like pretty good incentive to me. Why should absolute protection be almost free?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#167 - 2015-02-03 20:27:04 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
nothing to read here move along


Dude SHUT UP.

*whistles innocently *


Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#168 - 2015-02-03 20:31:14 UTC
On the topic of getting players out of NPC corps I had a crazy idea myself.

Most folks recommend raising the tax rate to high levels.

I recommend that NPC corp members are treated as Trial Accounts when it comes to skill use......

Yeah, that means if you are in an NPC corp you can't use any of the skills restricted to Trial Account users....even if you have them.

Think about it...;)

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#169 - 2015-02-03 20:40:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Mike Adoulin wrote:
On the topic of getting players out of NPC corps I had a crazy idea myself.

Most folks recommend raising the tax rate to high levels.

I recommend that NPC corp members are treated as Trial Accounts when it comes to skill use......

Yeah, that means if you are in an NPC corp you can't use any of the skills restricted to Trial Account users....even if you have them.

Think about it...;)

Nah, it would be difficult to justify something like that because training (and by effect using) skills is something people literally pay for. But people don't pay for the ability to be immune from EVE's complex formula network of risks, rewards, and consequences. A tax makes sense, because the concept of paying for protection makes sense. And in fact, one already exists. It should be increased to make the risk/reward offset for war immunity (while still being able to influence the universe's economy) more meaningful, and give players a non-trivial reason to leave NPC corporations.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Justin Zaine
#170 - 2015-02-03 21:05:48 UTC
What happened to Eve's motto, "Here's a spaceship. **** you." ?

While I've never awoxed and don't plan on starting, the removal of this mechanic is distressing.

Tomorrow they'll remove a mechanic that someone else enjoyed, the day after that it's a mechanic I enjoyed.

Like this idea of a social corp, protecting noobs from wardecs.

Yeah, I fully support the fact that wardecs need to change somehow to make them more meaningful, but to be able to avoid them altogether in a player corp?

CCP, what the **** is that?

I shoulda seen this coming when they nerfed can flipping back in 2012...

This is ******* bullshit.





He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
Elyham
Perkone
Caldari State
#171 - 2015-02-03 21:28:41 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Elyham wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
awoxxing was a horrible mechanic which made no sense and is rightly on the way out. The next topic that needs to be addressed is the proliferation of out of control wardeccs.



I fully agree 100% It is time to fix out of control wardecs. Anyone in NPC corp should have 95% tax rate to help pay for their wardec immunity.

Wardecs between corps would then be fully funded by the additional tax income CONCORD deserves and thus they would be free between corps.

Problem solved!


How about getting rid of nonconsensual wardeccs? Why do you want to force people in to PvP? If they wanted that they would go to low/null. They live in highsec specifically to avoid that...it makes no sense to have the game force it on them.


You are obviously playing the wrong game numbnuts. You consent to PVP when you undock.

If CCP does turn highsec into PVE only with no ability for PVP like has been rumored and turd burglars like yourself keep calling for then watch this game wither and die. Not to mention the market crash when no one in high sec (the largest player base in game) needs to replace their ships...


Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#172 - 2015-02-03 21:56:36 UTC
Elyham wrote:
You are obviously playing the wrong game numbnuts. You consent to PVP when you undock.
Oh God, don't give him the chance to step up on his little soapbox and preach the "holy book of veers."

Quote:
If CCP does turn highsec into PVE only with no ability for PVP like has been rumored and turd burglars like yourself keep calling for then watch this game wither and die. Not to mention the market crash when no one in high sec (the largest player base in game) needs to replace their ships...
You know it, I know it, and the majority of the posters in C&P know it, people like veers (apt description btw +1) don't care.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Elyham
Perkone
Caldari State
#173 - 2015-02-03 23:20:58 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
]You know it, I know it, and the majority of the posters in C&P know it, people like veers (apt description btw +1) don't care.


Salvation is only a tornado away... Big smile
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#174 - 2015-02-03 23:42:51 UTC
Justin Zaine wrote:
What happened to Eve's motto, "Here's a spaceship. **** you." ?

While I've never awoxed and don't plan on starting, the removal of this mechanic is distressing.

Tomorrow they'll remove a mechanic that someone else enjoyed, the day after that it's a mechanic I enjoyed.

Like this idea of a social corp, protecting noobs from wardecs.

Yeah, I fully support the fact that wardecs need to change somehow to make them more meaningful, but to be able to avoid them altogether in a player corp?

CCP, what the **** is that?

I shoulda seen this coming when they nerfed can flipping back in 2012...

This is ******* bullshit.



This says it all. +1

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#175 - 2015-02-04 00:33:52 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
and dont care to pay people to defend them

And I don't care to pay for the goods they dump on the market. If you want them to be left alone to do their activities in peace, then give me unlimited access to any sort of item I can use/have skills for.

Lan Wang wrote:
We need to get people out of npc corps not give them more incentive to remain in them

Raise the tax from 11% to, say, 40%. Sounds like pretty good incentive to me. Why should absolute protection be almost free?


its all 1 sided though, raise the tax to 40%, why so you can have more targets to kill? so you can have the content you want to have and make isk happy knowing your targets have no chance of winning and playing the game?

nobody asks you to buy anything on the market you are free to go and make your own stuff, and if you did have unlimited access to everything you have skills for then what would you do with it? your comment doesnt make any sense.

why cant protection be almost free if they dont have any sort of protection and are forced into player corps with punishment for leaving when a war starts or forced to pay money to another merc corp to help against the merc corp (who could really be friends just farming isk)

then all that will happen is any freighter, miner or anyone else who doesnt have a weapon will just undock into a fleet of flashing red vindicators, that could get boring real quick.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#176 - 2015-02-04 01:19:47 UTC
There are 2 ways around this silly mechanic that I can think of.

They will just require more patience but the payoffs/tears will be much better.



https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Shailagh
6Six6Six6Six
#177 - 2015-02-04 02:27:22 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
There are 2 ways around this silly mechanic that I can think of.

They will just require more patience but the payoffs/tears will be much better.





Dont keep it 2 urself u ass. U think dumb hisec carebear ceos read C@P forums except when to cry bout corp thefts?
Share the knowledge punk, let the grief rain down. This is like some supa secret 5k/LP conversion item where you cant tell anyone. Aint none of them idiots gonna see and omg even if you sent them a mail describing it, 50% of them would STILL fall for it.

Tell me now!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#178 - 2015-02-04 03:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Lan Wang wrote:
its all 1 sided though, raise the tax to 40%, why so you can have more targets to kill? so you can have the content you want to have and make isk happy knowing your targets have no chance of winning and playing the game?

nobody asks you to buy anything on the market you are free to go and make your own stuff, and if you did have unlimited access to everything you have skills for then what would you do with it? your comment doesnt make any sense.

Why should I have to make my own stuff? Shouldn't I be allowed to play the game how I want to? Are you saying that carebears should have the content they want to have and make ISK happy knowing that there are plenty of players like myself who are forced to deal with their market manipulation?

Being able to play "how you want to" goes both ways. Other players are affecting my play style in a way that is detrimental to me; why shouldn't I be able to do the same?

If I have to spend time either doing what I don't want to do (manufacture stuff) or dealing with people I don't want to deal with (by engaging in market transactions with carebears), they also should either do something they don't want to do (evade aggressors/replace losses) or deal with people they don't want to deal with (pvpers, for protection). This would be fair.

Lan Wang wrote:
why cant protection be almost free if they dont have any sort of protection and are forced into player corps with punishment for leaving when a war starts or forced to pay money to another merc corp to help against the merc corp (who could really be friends just farming isk)

Nothing is stopping these players from having players like myself join their corporations in order to protect them, aside from their own greed. And so, it all comes down to them being able to have an impact on my play style, and my inability to impact theirs.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#179 - 2015-02-04 03:32:47 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Solonius Rex wrote:
So youre against any form of nonconsensual PVP in highsec?

I'm pretty sure that he's stated very clearly multiple times that he is.


Completely false by the way...time to stop believing your own talking points
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#180 - 2015-02-04 03:35:27 UTC
Elyham wrote:


You are obviously playing the wrong game numbnuts. You consent to PVP when you undock.

If CCP does turn highsec into PVE only with no ability for PVP like has been rumored and turd burglars like yourself keep calling for then watch this game wither and die. Not to mention the market crash when no one in high sec (the largest player base in game) needs to replace their ships...




Funny how most of the highsec playerbase seems to do just swimmingly without ship to ship combat...whether mining, hauling, mission running, incursion running, trading, manufacturing, etc...people seem to be able to play very nicely in highsec, while shooting each other in low/null. Unclear why the game would suddenly collapse if a few wardecc groups couldn't get easy kills anymore. Citation needed.