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Crime & Punishment

 
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End of the Awoxer? Is eve getting too soft?

Author
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#141 - 2015-02-02 05:18:48 UTC
I don't think Veers should go away. His presence is very important, and acts as a filter to drown out the players who don't put work into their arguments. The pro-pvp side has almost as many derps arguing from emotion as the carebear side (proportion-wise, at least).

That said, I do have a question:

Veers Belvar wrote:
Honestly dude, go to nullsec. There is no reason your gameplay should depend on blowing up pathetic highsec pve victims.
+
Find other battles to fight.

I understand the basis of that argument, but can you tell me why we should do this, if high-sec is currently objectively the most profitable area of space for aggressive pvp, in terms of both financial and satisfaction-based perspectives?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#142 - 2015-02-02 05:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Veers Belvar wrote:

That was a load of bollocks. Highsec is perfectly safe for me, as my elite playstyle is immune to the code theatrics. I can happily make isk at my leisure, completely unaffected by the code griefers. Now THAT is what burns you guys up, but all the whining in the world won't change it.


Highsec is safe for you?

So, you must be at your keyboard. Watching D-Scan? Perhaps a glance at local every now and again?

In other words, you are following the Code. They win.

Veers Belvar wrote:

And from what I can tell highsec is moving much more in my direction, as can be seen from the legion of ganker and awoxxer crocodile tears on this thread. Perhaps it is you who needs to start looking for a new game? Maybe World of Tanks? Now there is a real PvP game for you. Or maybe Pacman?


You are correct. Although its EVE, not just highsec, that is moving in that direction. What a narrow minded view. As I said before, in a few years (or less, from the speed of the nerf train), EVE will be devoid of any player interaction.

Oh, except for nullsec. Because every one of us loves grinding structures and falling under the iron boot of the Goonswarm Federation.

What about wormholes? Well, its pointless to spend ISK on WH fit ships if the guys in highsec are making just as much money. Same thing goes with lowsec. Why risk the loss of your ship if you can make the same amount in perfect safety?

Gee, that sounds fun. If I wanted to watch my wallet increase, I would play sim city with disasters off, set the speed to cheetah, and watch netflix. What fun.

Enjoy your victory. Straight

EDIT:

Explanation of the "level" belief about nullsec...

EVE does not contain "levels". So often you hear things like "go pvp in null" or "I am a nullsec PVPer".

News flash- the guns dont fire hotter in null. Its just another security zone, that offers different mechanics from the others. Its not the endgame, its not the last level, and more PVE goes on in null than anywhere else! (Just ask some of the goonswarm mining slaves!!)

So the next time you want to claim how much of a badass you are because you "PVP in Null" (real nullsec dwellers are laughing at you, by the way) stop, take a deep breath, and dont type it.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#143 - 2015-02-02 05:32:18 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
poopies his diaper



We know you don't undock, Veers, you tell us all the time. Remember, there is a reason you are a 'special snowflake'.

About the only thing you do is pollute the forums. I know, it's about all you can do, really.

Now go finish your nap, and no, you don't get clean diapers until then.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#144 - 2015-02-02 05:34:58 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
NEW CORPS GET THE FRIENSLY FIRE TURNED OFF BY DEFAULT
Just incase they foregt to make their corp safe and bear friendly, ccp is setting new corps to auto No Fire

Wtf ccp? 2 different Default Constructors? L2Program dudez



Meh.

Just another challenge for the expert infiltrator/pirate.

One rather easily overcome, if you stop to think about it......

Bear

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Elyham
Perkone
Caldari State
#145 - 2015-02-02 20:38:00 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
awoxxing was a horrible mechanic which made no sense and is rightly on the way out. The next topic that needs to be addressed is the proliferation of out of control wardeccs.



I fully agree 100% It is time to fix out of control wardecs. Anyone in NPC corp should have 95% tax rate to help pay for their wardec immunity.

Wardecs between corps would then be fully funded by the additional tax income CONCORD deserves and thus they would be free between corps.

Problem solved!
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#146 - 2015-02-02 21:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Elyham wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
awoxxing was a horrible mechanic which made no sense and is rightly on the way out. The next topic that needs to be addressed is the proliferation of out of control wardeccs.

I fully agree 100% It is time to fix out of control wardecs. Anyone in NPC corp should have 95% tax rate to help pay for their wardec immunity.

Wardecs between corps would then be fully funded by the additional tax income CONCORD deserves and thus they would be free between corps.

Problem solved!

Add wardec fees AND higher NPC corp taxes into a 'war reparations bucket', and then allow war defenders to claim a high percentage of their war losses (minus any insurance payout) against that bucket and you are really talking...

Three birds with one stone. Those hiding out forever in NPC corps would fund the SRP for those sacking up and bringing a fight, while being incentivized to join real corps themselves, while also incentivizing defenders to bring a fight...

Broad strokes, sure, but just imagine a world where CCP and CSM always thought of 'fixes' to mechanics in terms of how to increase content-creation & conflict, instead of mechanics nerfs like 'social corporations' or 'corp lite' that gives bears their cake (100% war immunity) and ability to eat it too (be in a player corp)...

F
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#147 - 2015-02-03 03:08:49 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Add wardec fees AND higher NPC corp taxes into a 'war reparations bucket', and then allow war defenders to claim a high percentage of their war losses (minus any insurance payout) against that bucket and you are really talking...

While I understand the reasoning behind this (to encourage defenders to fight), it doesn't really make sense from a practical perspective. A war in itself is legal, so compensating defenders makes no more sense than compensating attackers. I'd rather see a system in which the winner of the conflict is able to levy some kind of demand or penalty on the loser (have it be automatic via interface, contract style). Like for example, the attacker would pay a flat amount of money if it loses, and the defender would have its profits garnished via a tax, with that money then being transferred over to the attackers, for a period of time. Can even make the defender a protectorate of the attacker during that time, pulling the attacker as a defending ally in any future wars, and treating that attacker similarly as the defender during that time in case of war losses/victories.

Of course the system would need to be structured in a way that when no actual fighting/kills happen, the defender doesn't automatically win.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#148 - 2015-02-03 03:22:39 UTC
Elyham wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
awoxxing was a horrible mechanic which made no sense and is rightly on the way out. The next topic that needs to be addressed is the proliferation of out of control wardeccs.



I fully agree 100% It is time to fix out of control wardecs. Anyone in NPC corp should have 95% tax rate to help pay for their wardec immunity.

Wardecs between corps would then be fully funded by the additional tax income CONCORD deserves and thus they would be free between corps.

Problem solved!


How about getting rid of nonconsensual wardeccs? Why do you want to force people in to PvP? If they wanted that they would go to low/null. They live in highsec specifically to avoid that...it makes no sense to have the game force it on them.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#149 - 2015-02-03 04:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Veers Belvar wrote:

How about getting rid of nonconsensual wardeccs? Why do you want to force people in to PvP? If they wanted that they would go to low/null. They live in highsec specifically to avoid that...it makes no sense to have the game force it on them.


USA: Hey, Saddam, can we declare war on you?
IRAQ: Nah, I am busy mining and building chemical weapons (or not)
USA: Aww. Too bad. I guess we will dec someone else who wants to fight.
IRAQ: If you want to fight, go to Antarctica. There arent any laws there.
USA: But there isnt anything to DO in Antarctica unless we want to mine ice and structure grind.
IRAQ: Oh well.
USA: Oh well.

Gee. That was fun.

I am laughing my ass off at the mere thought of "consensual" wars. Its WAR, and its a valid option in any space. Even carebear corps dec others if they want moon upgrades or whatnot.

Or should they be ganking POS?


EDIT:
LMFAO @ the censored name of the departed Iraqi leader. SERIOUSLY??!?!!

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#150 - 2015-02-03 04:09:22 UTC
You going to answer my question, Veers?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2015-02-03 04:16:34 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
We know you don't undock, Veers, you tell us all the time.


If he's ever said that, he's quite a liar. The last time there was an incursion in my home system, Veers made an appearance. I knows he undocked. I seen it!
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#152 - 2015-02-03 04:30:04 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You going to answer my question, Veers?


Yes...the fellow made it seem like his Eve career was over because he can longer easily awox players. I suggested that he go to nullsec for his PvP fix. True, it's easier and more profitable to PvP in highsec...I mean you get to beat in the heads of poor souls who can't fit ships, don't understand aggression mechanics, and have no PvP experience or skills. Great. But really? Does that actually give you satisfaction? And if you can't curbstomp these pathetic players then Eve is dead to you? That is just sad.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#153 - 2015-02-03 04:34:12 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

How about getting rid of nonconsensual wardeccs? Why do you want to force people in to PvP? If they wanted that they would go to low/null. They live in highsec specifically to avoid that...it makes no sense to have the game force it on them.


USA: Hey, ******, can we declare war on you?
IRAQ: Nah, I am busy mining and building chemical weapons (or not)
USA: Aww. Too bad. I guess we will dec someone else who wants to fight.
IRAQ: If you want to fight, go to Antarctica. There arent any laws there.
USA: But there isnt anything to DO in Antarctica unless we want to mine ice and structure grind.
IRAQ: Oh well.
USA: Oh well.

Gee. That was fun.

I am laughing my ass off at the mere thought of "consensual" wars. Its WAR, and its a valid option in any space. Even carebear corps dec others if they want moon upgrades or whatnot.

Or should they be ganking POS?


EDIT:
LMFAO @ the censored name of the departed Iraqi leader. SERIOUSLY??!?!!


Yes...that would be a good argument if Eve wars bore any resemblance to real wars.

Real war - Germany invades Poland in 1939...there is no option to dock up, no option to drop corp, no option to play on alts, and no option to log off and play Minecraft for a week. Failure to fight leads to death and negative infinity utility. Everyone is compelled to devote all of their efforts to the war.

Eve war - docking up? Check. Dropping corp? Check. Playing on alts? Check. Logging off for a week and playing minecraft? Check. Any consequences for either side failing to show up and fight? Nope.

The wars are a complete joke...no one is forced to fight, and there are no consequences for cowardice for either side. Marmite excels at this...mass wardeccs and then docking up when people come to actually fight. Until you are willing to punish people for failing to log on and fight during wars...they will remain nothing more than a sad joke.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#154 - 2015-02-03 04:52:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Veers Belvar wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You going to answer my question, Veers?


Yes...the fellow made it seem like his Eve career was over because he can longer easily awox players. I suggested that he go to nullsec for his PvP fix. True, it's easier and more profitable to PvP in highsec...I mean you get to beat in the heads of poor souls who can't fit ships, don't understand aggression mechanics, and have no PvP experience or skills. Great. But really? Does that actually give you satisfaction? And if you can't curbstomp these pathetic players then Eve is dead to you? That is just sad.

Discounting the fact that not all wars (not even the majority) play out how you describe, the answer is "yes." It's extremely profitable, and very much fun.

Would I rather be shooting groups of T2-fit HAM Drakes or Nanocanes in 0.0 with my own group of HAM Drakes or Nanocanes with nothing to show for it aside from the right to rat in a null belt in order to fund a replacement HAM Drake or Nanocane for the next such excursion, or shooting at faction-fit CNRs and autopiloting rookie ships with PLEXes in their cargo holds? The answer is undoubtedly the latter. You might disagree with this on moral grounds, but can you actually blame me? It's like putting a bottle of gin in front of an alcoholic, and then telling him "well, you can of course dress up, get out of the house, and walk for 15 minutes to buy some tangerines at the closest fruit market instead; your call, buddy."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#155 - 2015-02-03 06:00:30 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

How about getting rid of nonconsensual wardeccs? Why do you want to force people in to PvP? If they wanted that they would go to low/null. They live in highsec specifically to avoid that...it makes no sense to have the game force it on them.


USA: Hey, ******, can we declare war on you?
IRAQ: Nah, I am busy mining and building chemical weapons (or not)
USA: Aww. Too bad. I guess we will dec someone else who wants to fight.
IRAQ: If you want to fight, go to Antarctica. There arent any laws there.
USA: But there isnt anything to DO in Antarctica unless we want to mine ice and structure grind.
IRAQ: Oh well.
USA: Oh well.

Gee. That was fun.

I am laughing my ass off at the mere thought of "consensual" wars. Its WAR, and its a valid option in any space. Even carebear corps dec others if they want moon upgrades or whatnot.

Or should they be ganking POS?


EDIT:
LMFAO @ the censored name of the departed Iraqi leader. SERIOUSLY??!?!!


Yes...that would be a good argument if Eve wars bore any resemblance to real wars.

Real war - Germany invades Poland in 1939...there is no option to dock up, no option to drop corp, no option to play on alts, and no option to log off and play Minecraft for a week. Failure to fight leads to death and negative infinity utility. Everyone is compelled to devote all of their efforts to the war.

Eve war - docking up? Check. Dropping corp? Check. Playing on alts? Check. Logging off for a week and playing minecraft? Check. Any consequences for either side failing to show up and fight? Nope.

The wars are a complete joke...no one is forced to fight, and there are no consequences for cowardice for either side. Marmite excels at this...mass wardeccs and then docking up when people come to actually fight. Until you are willing to punish people for failing to log on and fight during wars...they will remain nothing more than a sad joke.


Correct!!

So instead of asking for removal of the wardecs, why not campaign for incentives? Reasons to fight? Wouldn't that be more fun than removing it?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2015-02-03 13:25:28 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Elyham wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
awoxxing was a horrible mechanic which made no sense and is rightly on the way out. The next topic that needs to be addressed is the proliferation of out of control wardeccs.



I fully agree 100% It is time to fix out of control wardecs. Anyone in NPC corp should have 95% tax rate to help pay for their wardec immunity.

Wardecs between corps would then be fully funded by the additional tax income CONCORD deserves and thus they would be free between corps.

Problem solved!


How about getting rid of nonconsensual wardeccs? Why do you want to force people in to PvP? If they wanted that they would go to low/null. They live in highsec specifically to avoid that...it makes no sense to have the game force it on them.


So youre against any form of nonconsensual PVP in highsec?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#157 - 2015-02-03 13:46:59 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
So youre against any form of nonconsensual PVP in highsec?

I'm pretty sure that he's stated very clearly multiple times that he is.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#158 - 2015-02-03 14:50:02 UTC
What many are missing (including our 'balanced' CSM's) is that these continued nerfs cannot be viewed any longer on an individual basis, but in terms of the entire litany of nerfs to content & conflict over recent years.

With a clear history of 12 nerfs to hisec & content creation we are now at a -12 condition below HTFU zero gentlemen.

What is called for is a +12 of changes to increase conflict, balance the scales, return us to HTFU zero and restore balance to the force...er..EvE.

What we don't need is another -1 to HTFU with a 'don't-awox-me-brah switch', followed by another -1 to HTFU in the next release giving carebears 100% safe-from-wardec 'corporation lite's....

Here's a question. When did we decide as a community to make hisec into Disneyland or WoW?

We didn't, but CCP (and CSM's asleep at the switch) have been doing it in small stealthy moves over time. Very clever CCP, very clever...

But this is not my EvE. Is it yours? Are you comfortable letting an entire zipcode of EvE die to stagnation, perhaps just because you personally don't live there?

Vote Sabriz and Tora in the upcoming CSM elections.

Don't do it for me, do it for the children.

F
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2015-02-03 15:21:18 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Solonius Rex wrote:
So youre against any form of nonconsensual PVP in highsec?

I'm pretty sure that he's stated very clearly multiple times that he is.


Then clearly hes in the wrong game.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#160 - 2015-02-03 15:56:24 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Add wardec fees AND higher NPC corp taxes into a 'war reparations bucket', and then allow war defenders to claim a high percentage of their war losses (minus any insurance payout) against that bucket and you are really talking...

While I understand the reasoning behind this (to encourage defenders to fight), it doesn't really make sense from a practical perspective. A war in itself is legal, so compensating defenders makes no more sense than compensating attackers. I'd rather see a system in which the winner of the conflict is able to levy some kind of demand or penalty on the loser (have it be automatic via interface, contract style). Like for example, the attacker would pay a flat amount of money if it loses, and the defender would have its profits garnished via a tax, with that money then being transferred over to the attackers, for a period of time. Can even make the defender a protectorate of the attacker during that time, pulling the attacker as a defending ally in any future wars, and treating that attacker similarly as the defender during that time in case of war losses/victories.

Of course the system would need to be structured in a way that when no actual fighting/kills happen, the defender doesn't automatically win.


what a terrible idea, so huge pvp merc corp just wardecs little mining corps, profit, this would create nothing but griefing on a large scale

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*