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Fix for Ishtars online
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#201 - 2015-02-07 09:03:31 UTC
Give Ishtars the same bonuses to sentry drones as the Armageddon has and all your concerns are washed away. Heavy drones are still very good on Ishtars, but sentries will have major problems hitting anything that moves too close or with a very small sig. The small sig paired with higher speed (100MN AB Ishtars) is already a problem for standard Ishtars as well as other turret ships.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#202 - 2015-02-07 14:12:23 UTC
Proliferation =/= overpowered. And CCP introduced a 50 assist drone limit for a reason.
Arla Sarain
#203 - 2015-02-07 14:18:55 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
50 assist drone limit for a reason.

And it was set to 50, because it was "enough".

And drone assist exist at all, because, another reason.





Has it been considered that their only reason is to make it agonizing?
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#204 - 2015-02-07 16:16:10 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Proliferation =/= overpowered. And CCP introduced a 50 assist drone limit for a reason.



Over enough time I would argue the exact opposite. And it has been long enough...
Lugh Crow-Slave
#205 - 2015-02-07 16:21:21 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Proliferation =/= overpowered. And CCP introduced a 50 assist drone limit for a reason.



Over enough time I would argue the exact opposite. And it has been long enough...


Ishtars were overpowered then they got set back to a reasonable level however they were overpowered long enough that a good deal of people trained bought and made doctrines around them that they are still popular

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
#206 - 2015-02-07 17:18:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Grytok
There's actually a quite easy fix to the sentries...

Disable AB, MWD and MJD while sentries are deployed.

It's a reather easy fix without making sentries obsolete, or totally nerfing the ships that use them.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#207 - 2015-02-07 17:24:05 UTC
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#208 - 2015-02-07 17:29:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Reduce the bandwidth of the ishtar and navy vexor to 100 bandwidth
Reduce the bandwidth of heavy drones to 20, from 25.
Reduce the Dronebay of the Ishtar to 225 (from from 375).

Navy Vexors and Ishtars can now deploy a full set of heavy drones (but only 4 sentry drones).

The dps of both the Navy Vexor and Ishtar reduced by 20% when deploying sentry drones.

The dps of both the Navy Vexor and the Ishtar does NOT change when using heavy drones.

The ishtar pilot has to choose what sets of drones they should deploy, but cannot bring full sets of everything anymore.

The Vexor, Proteus, Myrmidon, Prophecy, Stratios all wind up getting a slight DPS buff (Vexor and prophecy have a different drone deployment platform (3 heavies, 1 medium, 1 light). The Myrmidon, Proteus and Stratios can now deploy a full set of heavy drones).

Basically, this makes it that only Battleships are capable of deploying a full set of 5 sentry drones (minus the EOS as it can also).

The ability for ishtars to use sentries deminishes, but the ship still is more than capable of doing massive dps with heavies, and potential decent ranged dps with sentries (even if it can only deploy 4).

Thats how I would fix it.

Yaay!!!!
Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
#209 - 2015-02-07 17:31:07 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
You can abandon drones and reconnect to get around that.


Yeah, but while abandoned, you can't shoot anything with your sentries.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#210 - 2015-02-07 18:25:56 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
It ain't broke so there is no need to fix it.


It most certainly is broke, and it immediately needs to be fixed.


Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Ishtars were overpowered then they got set back to a reasonable level


How were they set back to a reasonable level? The 10m/s speed nerf? That did nothing.

We have 4-5 doctrines, and only fly ishtars. It's not because we trained Ishtars, we could easily train something else (most of us can already fly a T3 fleet). We still fly Ishtars because there is no good counter to them except Ishtars.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#211 - 2015-02-07 20:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
We have 4-5 doctrines, and only fly ishtars. It's not because we trained Ishtars, we could easily train something else (most of us can already fly a T3 fleet). We still fly Ishtars because there is no good counter to them except Ishtars.

Eagles work against Ishtars. Cerberus' work against Ishtars. I wonder if MJD CS, like Rail Vultures, work against them. A combination of bombers, dictors and damage works against Ishtars.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#212 - 2015-02-07 21:05:03 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
It ain't broke so there is no need to fix it.


It most certainly is broke, and it immediately needs to be fixed.


Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Ishtars were overpowered then they got set back to a reasonable level


How were they set back to a reasonable level? The 10m/s speed nerf? That did nothing.



no when they dropped the tracking bonus down to 7.5%


BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Caligula Gaius Claudian
The Wrong Turn
Dracarys.
#213 - 2015-02-08 01:03:35 UTC
This topic came to the end of life

Peeps are asking to nerf both ishtar and sentry which is absurd.

I think best thing is to make these pair separated for good.

At least make the crying babies happy.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#214 - 2015-02-08 02:43:21 UTC
Grytok wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
You can abandon drones and reconnect to get around that.


Yeah, but while abandoned, you can't shoot anything with your sentries.




You know that, they know that, and people are losing ships/getting podded by afk cloaked ships.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#215 - 2015-02-08 04:20:32 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Subcaps get fighters delegated from carriers. Fighter delegation and carrier support is endemic to lowsec PVP.

Ah good to see your still stuck in your rut, everything I say goes completely over your head and you always land back on carriers.
Did you ever, even for just one single second stop and think that maybe your addiction to carriers is the root cause of your problems?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#216 - 2015-02-08 04:23:01 UTC
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2015-02-08 05:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Amazing but how one small tiny ship could cause so much rage in discusdion.

I hope we could start having gvexor blueprints drops sometime in future thus would leave ishtar abandoned for usage.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#218 - 2015-02-08 06:06:47 UTC
Something that people who say "Nerf this ship cause it's too overpowered!" forget about is that there will then be the next ship that people complain about as being overpowered. Sometimes, it ends up being their own favorite to fly.

What you want is an effective counter, not necessarily a nerf.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#219 - 2015-02-08 06:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
That's pretty much what I was going to say. The next successful thing is only a matter of being used in large groups. Doesn't mean changes aren't worth having, though.

Help, I can't download EVE

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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2015-02-08 06:16:27 UTC
What is the next 'flag' ship, cause i think ishtar's days are over soon.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP