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Hey look, it's a talos!
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Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-12-01 02:31:28 UTC
Ok, so lets go ahead and take a look at a few fits, see how things work out for a small gang enviornment (say, somewhere between 2-10 or so, with maybe 1-2 logi's supporting). ECM drones on all ships that can fit them (because once you go beyond solo, ECM drones are generally better than damage drones).

[Brutix, Small Gang shield]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Vespa EC-600 x5

So this gives us a wonderful 736dps with navy antimatter (3% pg implant needed), while providing decent resists for supporting scimitars. Range is 2.3+6.3 w/ antimatter (cause much as we hate to admit it, range is important), and 5.6+7.8 w/ null. Cap stable without mwd running, lasts about 2.5 min w/ it running. Speed is 1301m/s w/ 10s align time mwd running, and a sig of 336 w/ mwd off. You might be able to catch something with it, but that is probably more because of the number of people who like to sit at 0 and start a slugfest in a hurricane... 44k EHP.

In comparison, I will now show why you don't ever fly armor brutixes...

[Brutix, Small Gang Armor]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Vespa EC-600 x5

65k EHP, thats 20k more than the shield... but at the price of 3s align, 400m/s, and 200ish dps. But you get 2 webs...

Now for the talos:

[Talos, Small Gang Armor]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
N-Type Reactive Membrane I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hornet EC-300 x5

3% pg implant needed. But this one gives you 834dps with 4.5+13km range with navy antimatter, 11+16 w/ null (time to chase away those pesky kiters, and hey, you can actually hit out that far, AND switch ammo relatively quickly). 38k EHP, but thats only 6k less than the shield brutix, while being only 30m/s slower, and having a slightly faster align time. Personally, I think the extra range and dps wins out over the brutix's slight speed and tracking advantages.

Continued in my next post:

-Arazel
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-12-01 02:31:48 UTC
The last one we'll look at here is the shield talos:

[Talos, Small Gang Shield]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Hornet EC-300 x5

decent resists, but at 25k EHP, damn its flimsy. However, it has the same dps as the above talos, while having a range of 5.8+20 using antimatter (meaning that it can kite... unusual for a blaster ship). Alternatively, you can put a second extender on it instead of the disruptor and expect someone else to tackle for you, or up your dps and agility by swapping the tracking enhancers for a second magstab and a second nano (1898m/s and 6.2s align time, while doing 998dps at 4.5+13, or 795 at 11+16 w/ null) I will admit, that I'm honestly wondering if the damage control is even worth it, but there really isn't anything that can improve its survivability that you can put in a lowslot, though if you replace it with a nano and the TE's with magstabs you can punch out 894 gun dps w/ null... Or you can do 3 nanos for a 2k m/s speed and 5.6s align time.



So thats all nice and dandy, but lets look at the competition - the hurricane and the tornado. Now, a pretty standard hurricane fit is:

[Hurricane, Small Gang Shield]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Hornet EC-300 x5

So this can dump out 617dps at 1.9+20km, move at 1311m/s and align in 12.1s. Which means that it is slightly faster, slightly less agile, but has significantly better range than the shield brutix. The armor brutix is so badly outperformed that it isn't even funny... With the armor talos, once again it is slightly less agile, slightly faster, but this time range isn't significantly better - a quick swap to null puts the talos and the cane at about the same falloff amount (assuming that the cane loads barrage and is trying to kite at 20-24km). Here a talos might actually be able to do something about a cane, unlike the brutix, which I think scores one point for it. The shield talos would absolutely blow the cane out of the water - if you were able to ignore the EHP. Which since you can't the cane would probably win that round, but it would be funny to see canes kited by blaster boats for once.

Lastly, we have the tornado, which is the real reason why you won't find talos's or brutix's everywhere.

[Tornado, Small Gang Shield]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

No drones, but it moves at 1818m/s and 7.5s align time, which means it can outkite everything here except the triple nano shield talos. It pumps out 781dps at 3+30km, which means you never really need to switch to barrage, as long as its fighting in point range. Lastly, it has 31k EHP - 2/3 that of a cane, but seeing as it has almost 150 more dps and has an extra 10km falloff (meaning that at 20km its doing as much as a cane at 2km, considering the dps difference). Oh, and lastly, it still has a smaller sig than the shield gane. Seriously... wtf?

So I suppose that this all goes to show that the brutix is still useless, the talos will only be used by nubs, and everyone should now bow down before our new tornado overlords. Unless of course rails are actually useful now - eh... I'll save that for another day.

Or who knows, maybe we'll switch from the shield kiting craze and go armor with the new onerios's. Sorry... coughing...

-Arazel
Eliane Harper
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#23 - 2011-12-01 03:20:11 UTC
I didn't know the brutix can have 1200+ DPS with 1900 speed.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-12-01 04:13:50 UTC
Rawls Canardly wrote:
Julia Connor wrote:
If all blaster boats could easily get in range then why fly any other ship?

therein lies the problem with all blaster boats.


but you can make it work. And the fix is quite simple.

all you need is to cut blasters range further, if you give them mobility that surpasses matari ships.


but noooooo, people want blasters to be like AC's.

Roll

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Rawls Canardly
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-12-03 15:43:05 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Rawls Canardly wrote:
Julia Connor wrote:
If all blaster boats could easily get in range then why fly any other ship?

therein lies the problem with all blaster boats.


but you can make it work. And the fix is quite simple.

all you need is to cut blasters range further, if you give them mobility that surpasses matari ships.


but noooooo, people want blasters to be like AC's.

Roll

I'd rather they stretched out AC optimal so blasters could get under them. right now blasters' entire damage band (optimal+falloff) is within the low end of AC falloff.
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