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Tempest Rebalance
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2015-01-28 10:28:45 UTC
Sh00ter McGavin wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Here's the thing, I dont have too many problems with a 17.5 km webbing battleship. The problem is that quickly becomes 36 km with a faction web and gang links, and it becomes 45 km with heat.

The only other ships that can do that (and not explode when someone looks at them wrong) are 500 million ISK+



This is true, but we all know what happens to someone who actually does that. They get primaried and everyone fights over who gets that lovely killmail. Only an idiot puts faction modules on a t1 battleship. And we should encourage those people.


I faction fit my new generation of megathrons, there is nothing daft about it.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-01-28 11:22:57 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
TP is minms primary E-war thats the one that is most helpful to fighting in falloff as well as the one on all of their e-war ships.




as well what do the vindi and bhaal have in common that may warrant such a strong E-war bonus

Saying TP is minnie primary ewar is a bogus point since TE is amarr primary and the geddon gets a neut range bonus.




neuts are not e-war

Let me put it this way...drones are still a weapon system even though they're not a turret, or even use the same slots. Likewise, neuts are still a type of electronic warfare even though they don't fill a mid because they 'disrupt' the ship. It's very different, but it certainly falls under the same category as the others, especially when you consider the bonuses of the ships that use them in the amarr lineup.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#43 - 2015-01-28 11:27:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Sh00ter McGavin wrote:
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
10 damage
7.5 tracking or fall off.

that or 5 damage with a 7th gun, making it a mini mach

web range on one of the fastest battleships, a T1 non faction one at that, would be a bit absurd.

granted this would make the maelstrom completely useless, the only thing the mael dose better than the pest right now is alpha....... and slow boating with dual XL-ASB no neuts or hard tackle if you're in to that kinda thing,,,,, good undock clear I guess?


The Maelstrom is a very nasty ship with solid tank, amazing alpha, and great reach. This version of the Tempest would not tread on those toes, very specifically by keeping only 6 turrets, and only 6 lows.

As I was talking about in my above post, a tracking bonus with the 50% damage modifier would be excellent for its function as a flexible multi-purpose battleship. A 7/6/6 slot layout would allow it to be used interchangeably in a shield OR armor fleet to great effect.


A tracking bonus coupled with 425s, sabot, and the room to fit TE is just too much.

Too much compared drone battleships and missile battleships that can field rapid heavies? Or are you thinking specifically turret ships, excluding the megathron which already gets around the same tracking speed (not counting the tracking bonus from sabot as you noted which is a fair point).
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#44 - 2015-01-28 11:31:12 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
A simple 10% damage bonus and drop the RoF bonus for a tracking bonus (which is a normal thing for attack BS - Damage + Application) and the Typhoon would become super groovy sexy.

It would be the best Alpha boat in the game

It would be good at Solo work having huge versatility and damage application

It would actually work.

It would be differentiated from the Mael as the Mael is a shield tanker and the 'Pest is much more suited to armour tanking.

if you're talking an 8 gun setup with a tracking bonus and a smaller web bonus, I could get behind that since it sees the best of both worlds, and people would have to faction-fit to get out to disruptor range.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-01-28 11:37:27 UTC
Web bonuses don't go on basic ships. Faction at least or T2/T3. 7th turret

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Lugh Crow-Slave
#46 - 2015-01-28 11:37:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Let me put it this way...drones are still a weapon system even though they're not a turret, or even use the same slots. Likewise, neuts are still a type of electronic warfare even though they don't fill a mid because they 'disrupt' the ship. It's very different, but it certainly falls under the same category as the others, especially when you consider the bonuses of the ships that use them in the amarr lineup.


that has nothing to do with why they aren't e-war were talking game defined E-war not player defined if neuts were considered E-war by the game archons would be near unstoppable in small to mid gang fights


if you want player defined then yes of course they are. I explained this and at this point it has nothing to do with a tempest re-balance. it wasn't meant as an attempt to derail the thread just a correction.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2015-01-28 12:03:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Speedkermit Damo
Rebalancing the Tempest to make it less shite than the other T1 battleships is like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Battleships are very rarely seen anymore outside of PvE any more because bombers are so OP. Making the Tempest a bit better isn't going to help, although the Tempest does need to be a bit better.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#48 - 2015-01-28 12:47:52 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Rebalancing the Tempest to make it less shite than the other T1 battleships is like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Battleships are very rarely seen anymore outside of PvE any more because bombers are so OP. Making the Tempest a bit better isn't going to help, although the Tempest does need to be a bit better.



There are so many more problems than just bombs seeing as battle ships are also just about gone from low sec as well

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2015-01-28 13:07:58 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Rebalancing the Tempest to make it less shite than the other T1 battleships is like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Battleships are very rarely seen anymore outside of PvE any more because bombers are so OP. Making the Tempest a bit better isn't going to help, although the Tempest does need to be a bit better.



There are so many more problems than just bombs seeing as battle ships are also just about gone from low sec as well


BS have never been popular for solo and small gangs. The vast bulk of the playerbase hold the myths about BS being poor to be true and thus never try.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2015-01-28 14:18:51 UTC
Sigras wrote:
web range on something as cheap and durable as a tempest would be a disaster...

TBH if the matari get an ewar battleship it should be the typhoon and it should get target painter bonuses

If it were up to me, i'd give the tempest another turret, change the damage bonus to 7.5% per level, drop the ROF bonus for a range bonus and give it extra agility.

That would make the maelstrom the brawler and the tempest would be an alpha strike hit and run sniping machine.



Na na na Thats Mach foru mate
Sh00ter McGavin
Barr None
#51 - 2015-01-28 19:50:35 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Web bonuses don't go on basic ships. Faction at least or T2/T3. 7th turret



Why not? What stops that? A 7th turret does not change the fact that the ship is then still just a crappy Maelstrom.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#52 - 2015-01-28 20:01:18 UTC
Sh00ter McGavin wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Web bonuses don't go on basic ships. Faction at least or T2/T3. 7th turret



Why not? What stops that?


as many of us have tried to explain web bonuses are extremely powerful

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2015-01-28 20:55:17 UTC
I would be in favor of a target painter bonus for the Tempest, but I think a web bonus might be too strong.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2015-01-28 23:14:57 UTC
Sh00ter McGavin wrote:


Minmatar Battleship bonuses:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 200




Are you out of your mind?
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2015-01-29 00:34:02 UTC
Honestly the Pest, Mael, and hype really need new hull buffs, slot, and weapon layouts.

first of all I don't think a battle ship save for some silly faction or T2 BS should ever have an active tanking buff period.

Pest (7/6/6) 6 guns 10 damage 5 falloff, tracking, or even TP strength. good for ACs and arty both

mael just get rid of the active tanking buff for tracking, falloff, damage or literally anything else.

Hype 8 guns like the rest of the Tier 3 BSes 5 damage and 7.5 tracking.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#56 - 2015-01-29 00:41:45 UTC
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
Honestly the Pest, Mael, and hype really need new hull buffs, slot, and weapon layouts.

first of all I don't think a battle ship save for some silly faction or T2 BS should ever have an active tanking buff period.

Pest (7/6/6) 6 guns 10 damage 5 falloff, tracking, or even TP strength. good for ACs and arty both

mael just get rid of the active tanking buff for tracking, falloff, damage or literally anything else.

Hype 8 guns like the rest of the Tier 3 BSes 5 damage and 7.5 tracking.




nothing wrong with active tanking BS

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#57 - 2015-01-29 00:47:07 UTC
i think what would be a natural fit would be falloff bonus, basically a T1 mach at a lower power level

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2015-01-29 01:31:32 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

nothing wrong with active tanking BS


Nothing wrong with active tanking a BS, it's just active tanking bonuses. the majority of the time it's a wasted bonus on battleships.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2015-01-29 03:34:31 UTC
A lot of people really like the Tempest. It is one of the most popular battleships. I'd fly one into combat any day.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-01-29 04:31:59 UTC
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

nothing wrong with active tanking BS


Nothing wrong with active tanking a BS, it's just active tanking bonuses. the majority of the time it's a wasted bonus on battleships.



^this is actually more symptomatic of the 'logi all the things,' 'blob all the things,' or 'ishtar all the things' mentalities pervading Eve right now, not necessarily a problem with active tanking. This problem was made much worse by the T1 logi cruisers, even though they did quite a bit for getting people back into low sec for a while, and promoting GF's for a time.

That random active tanked maelstrom using a proper fit, blue pill, tengu boosty alt, etc, is still a monster to take down, or triple rep myrm, and so forth. The fix here isn't just remove the local rep bonuses because logi are OP and the current game environment promotes the larger blob, it's finding ways to make the smaller guy able to fight the blob, directly or indirectly, or giving the blob good enough reasons to not be the blob.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal