EVE General Discussion

Right i'm gonna go out on a limb here, and hopefully most of you know i'm not exactly PvP averse. I think removal of killmails would "to a certain extent" improve imersion.

Just sayin.. I like my killmails too but still...

I've been ranting about this for years. People respond like it's a crying carebear who got ganked. Fact is, I'm a rabid competitor who lives for the kill - against someone I could quite easily lose against if I don't watch myself and do it right. This CODE group (for instance) has a philosophical reason why they won't pick a fair fight with a worthy opponent - it's the basis of the CODE - "we have a good excuse for ganking." Ganking IS attacking helpless players with overwhelming force for yucks. It's a term devised in WOW, and (unfortunately for us) has found its way HERE. *shudders in disgust*

The game mechanics have a lot to do with this, and the price to be paid for being an outlaw has a lot to do with that. The mechanics are close, don't get me wrong. They just aren't severe. Pirates were hung summarily on capture. They were never allowed to just walk into town. The navys involved wouldn't see a pirate in a bar, let him get on his ship with a head start to the open sea, then call the alarm. So, this highly infantile, (romanticized) idea of being a pirate is wildly inaccurate.

Races with so-called "sovereignty" in a so-called "advanced society" with pure unpunished lawlessness cannot happen. You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd. You can't have spaceships in a world with no law and order - severe enforcement of sovereign authority. It's RIDICULOUS. But, CCP doesn't mind being the object of ridicule, and have no intention of doing anything about this, so I ridicule them with regularity and don't take them seriously - like men. I see them as children who shave.

Thanks for bringing this up once more. Don't worry about the children and their responses.
They have to write on a wall with their crayons. Let it be this one.

And, remember, those ships make themselves. So FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

I truly do wonder what was the point in time at which the gaming world became so pussified.

I have been playing MMO for over a decade, have played many PVP MMOs (no, not EVER wow... ugh) and decided that I like the following in PVP:

- PVP must be a challenge of your skills... not of your wallet, not of your years-in-game (whether this is expressed in an SP difference, the legendary weapon of whatsit / armor of divinity or something else), but of what you, the player, actually bring to the board. Quite a few games allow a system where veterans will ALWAYS stomp newbs into the ground, and that's just unhealthy. The newbs tend to go to greener pastures, leaving the veterans to complain there's no PVP to be had. Well doh...

- PVP against non-PVPers (aka carebears) is boring and stupid. They don't want to fight, most of them don't know how to even react, and I'd much rather not bother. It's more fun if the traders/missioners/whatever can stay neutral and you only get to seek out the ones who WANT a fight.

- The exception being, of course, hunting down merchants/PVE people who are trying to sneak through PVP enabled high-loot areas to get max profit. There, it's tally-ho, and you knew the risk going in. In the games I did this in, though (POTBS especially), the intended victims could actually get away by knowing what to do with the available escape skills and they could actually DEFEND themselves. Way more of a challenge. (Side note: the unarmed EVE freighters are a bit silly... historically, there were always plenty of armed sea traders, so why not here?)

- Killboards lead to boring and stupid gameplay. I've been in MMO that had wargames, where the killboard junkies would ALWAYS focus on getting the max kills, while I and a few others snuck behind them, completed the objectives, and won the actual game - and hence the loot and PVP points. PVP servers, ironically, tend to be the most boring servers to be on for wargames, because EVERYONE is DPS and no one seems to comprehend that a balance of classes and skills wins more matches than 'Chaaaaaarge' and bragging about your DPS gear.

- I like in-game bounty systems that actually work. Meaning the bounty is there for a reason (e.g. bounty on an effective player killer, or an owner of special skills, like SWG jedi), the bounty is rewarding, and the risk is there for both hunter and hunted.

- I like MMO with game wide objectives and actual factions

- I like it when an MMO makes it possible to win by using strategy, even when heavily outnumbered

- Oh yeah, and I REALLY like hunting down gankers, griefers and bots.


I can't really find anything that fits the bill lately, so I'm playing EVE. Life's a **** and then you die...

It seems to be a MMORPG thing. People who play FPSes understand that they will be shot. Racing game players expect to be overtaken. Even dotalike communities, which are notoriously awful, are much more likely to blame their teammates than to complain about the fact that someone is trying to kill them. It's a conceit of the MMORPG world that "unconsensual PvP" is actually a thing, as if you don't agree to the game rules implicitly just by signing up.

Knew it would come to this.

Interesting post. I actually played very heavily during the days of BoB and ASCN, and I do remember, back then, that high value moons really were something worth fighting over -- it was discussed heavily. So, while what you say makes sense, I do tend to disagree -- I think the pile of gold on the beach would be fought vigorously over.

The thing about simulations is that no one actually plays them as such.

In real life, governments and militaries are highly structured and efficient, and people in positions of power actually think their actions through because their dinner depends on it. Games, on the other hand, are played by children, or essentially man-children, who don't even bother typing "you" instead of "u," let alone formulating complex plans and strategies, and then carrying them out. Well, you do see some of that at the high-end pvp/economic spectrum of the game, but not nearly enough. And everyone gets to respawn, which doesn't really help things.

You want people to play this game like a simulation? You'll need to do the following:

- You only get one "true" life (mechanics of this to be determined). You lose it, you die in real life too. For real.
- People are forced to play this game, even if they don't want to. If they refuse to, they are killed in real life. For real.

Bam, now you have a simulation. Ganking, for example, would virtually disappear overnight.

Elevator doesn't quite reach the top, eh? One fry short of a happy meal are we? Mommy pulls out the sharp knives.
There you are, still in the drawer?