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A Message Regarding "Hyperdunking"

First post First post First post
Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1421 - 2015-02-20 11:02:16 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I would like to see the KM for this.

It's on the list of zkillboard's freighter kills. It appears Dravclad is referring to the most recent one in Raussinen.


Turns out he fluffed the web trick and died quickly because he anti-tanked his ship.


No, your guys locked him and scrammed him as he decloaked, then the Mach got a bump on him, very skillfully done even though he had a webber there, he did not fluff it, your guys did what they needed to do to get him. Why do player of your ilk have to be so condescending and obnoxious, is winning not enough for you? So you lie on what happened to rub his nose in it further, the guy was outplayed, he did not fluff it.



In which case he got unlucky.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1422 - 2015-02-20 11:03:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
90 mil an hour is the income you can expect from the best anoms. You can also only have a max of 10 people per system which if you have would mean you cannot make close to 90 mil/hr. You will make more running missions in highsec than in null as it provides the same level of income or better with zero downtime due to hostiles.


The guy is doing the anoms and selling on the escalations, hence his income.

Also it depends on the time of day, the threat where he is comes from BL and during the period he has picked to play they are non-existent.

And you talk about a maxed out mission runner such as Jenn a'Snide, most people are a lot more relaxed than that, you really talk about max out blizting, where as the guy I am talking about plonks a carrier down in anoms and gets too it, been there myself, its easy as hell if you are in a good location.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1423 - 2015-02-20 11:09:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
90 mil an hour is the income you can expect from the best anoms. You can also only have a max of 10 people per system which if you have would mean you cannot make close to 90 mil/hr. You will make more running missions in highsec than in null as it provides the same level of income or better with zero downtime due to hostiles.


The guy is doing the anoms and selling on the escalations, hence his income.

Also it depends on the time of day, the threat where he is comes from BL and during the period he has picked to play they are non-existent.

And you talk about a maxed out mission runner such as Jenn a'Snide, most people are a lot more relaxed than that, you really talk about max out blizting, where as the guy I am talking about plonks a carrier down in anoms and gets too it, been there myself, its easy as hell if you are in a good location.


41 of such carriers have died this month. It is also impossible to get anywhere near the level of income you stated on anoms.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#1424 - 2015-02-20 11:10:02 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

In effect the solo or small gang players have it too hard because most of the time they gather ISK solo, so are unprotected and because it has been made easier to catch them the risk is to great so they end up in hisec.

Even worse, members of larger nullsec corps are deciding that it isn't worth their time to create the protection to mitigate the risk and also are going back highsec. This is because highsec missions and incursions pay too much compared to nullsec after you factor in the risk and/or effort needed to mitigate that risk.

Dracvlad wrote:
The whole thing that we are pointing out that people who are solo or small group orientated are being squeezed back to hisec and then we get the Grrr hisec going on about missions being op, they are not.

Point taken. CCP should make it a priority for there to be mechanisms to encourage and allow smaller entities to set up a home outside of highsec, and hopefully the new sovereignty changes will make space for them in null. Still, the smallest of these groups, and solo players will probably always have to base out of highsec, or perhaps lowsec, because of the way the game is designed.

Personally I am fine with that as the game should be structured to reward cooperative behaviour.

And missions do pay too much. L4s, which were designed a decade ago to be difficult (that is time-consuming) or even require multiple players, now can be blitzed in a fraction of that time with the current ships, and are accessible in unlimited amounts unlike much other PvE content. They need to be nerfed in pay, buffed in difficulty and/or limited in availability to prevent veterans from grinding them non-stop in safety.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1425 - 2015-02-20 11:19:11 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

No, your guys locked him and scrammed him as he decloaked, then the Mach got a bump on him


Wait, what?

They scrammed him first and then... bumped him away from the scram? It sounds like you're just tacking on more parts to make the lie plausible.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1426 - 2015-02-20 12:29:32 UTC
Who got the point on the freighter? I'd like to see the relevant lossmail on that one.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Black Pedro
Mine.
#1427 - 2015-02-20 13:10:13 UTC
Globby wrote:
hello again hyperdunking thread

Hey Globby, this thread doesn't have enough hyperdunking in it. Do you think you could give us a few tips on how to best hyperdunk something ourselves? In particular, how easy is it to keep a target bumped, yet still in range of your Orca and the necessary Catalysts?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1428 - 2015-02-20 13:35:02 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Globby wrote:
hello again hyperdunking thread

Hey Globby, this thread doesn't have enough hyperdunking in it. Do you think you could give us a few tips on how to best hyperdunk something ourselves? In particular, how easy is it to keep a target bumped, yet still in range of your Orca and the necessary Catalysts?


Actually that is how to stop hyperdunking, but all that happens is they bring in enough to gank it, but its fun...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1429 - 2015-02-20 13:36:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

No, your guys locked him and scrammed him as he decloaked, then the Mach got a bump on him


Wait, what?

They scrammed him first and then... bumped him away from the scram? It sounds like you're just tacking on more parts to make the lie plausible.


Once he is bumped he cannot warp so it does not matter, either your trolling or you are ignorant of certain mechanics, which would surprise me.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1430 - 2015-02-20 13:41:25 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

No, your guys locked him and scrammed him as he decloaked, then the Mach got a bump on him


Wait, what?

They scrammed him first and then... bumped him away from the scram? It sounds like you're just tacking on more parts to make the lie plausible.


Once he is bumped he cannot warp so it does not matter, either your trolling or you are ignorant of certain mechanics, which would surprise me.


You said he had an escort. If he was bumped he could still have warped if the escort got involved.

Your story has holes in it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1431 - 2015-02-20 13:42:27 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

In effect the solo or small gang players have it too hard because most of the time they gather ISK solo, so are unprotected and because it has been made easier to catch them the risk is to great so they end up in hisec.

Even worse, members of larger nullsec corps are deciding that it isn't worth their time to create the protection to mitigate the risk and also are going back highsec. This is because highsec missions and incursions pay too much compared to nullsec after you factor in the risk and/or effort needed to mitigate that risk.

Dracvlad wrote:
The whole thing that we are pointing out that people who are solo or small group orientated are being squeezed back to hisec and then we get the Grrr hisec going on about missions being op, they are not.

Point taken. CCP should make it a priority for there to be mechanisms to encourage and allow smaller entities to set up a home outside of highsec, and hopefully the new sovereignty changes will make space for them in null. Still, the smallest of these groups, and solo players will probably always have to base out of highsec, or perhaps lowsec, because of the way the game is designed.

Personally I am fine with that as the game should be structured to reward cooperative behaviour.

And missions do pay too much. L4s, which were designed a decade ago to be difficult (that is time-consuming) or even require multiple players, now can be blitzed in a fraction of that time with the current ships, and are accessible in unlimited amounts unlike much other PvE content. They need to be nerfed in pay, buffed in difficulty and/or limited in availability to prevent veterans from grinding them non-stop in safety.


Unless you are ratting as part of the CFC, or are way out in the deep parts of Drone lands you will have a very hard time of it.

Incursions are only run by a sub-set of hisec, and missions for the majority of people are not that great.

The problem is that there has been multiple adjustments that have made it a lot easier to catch people, so the risk is too great, reducing level 4 income will do nothing to change things and may well decrease the number of people taking a risk to roam into low and null because they cannot afford the losses. But if that is what you want go ahead, I am sitting pretty on 47bn so don't care what happens at my own level. Before you say anything, the majority of my ISK was made in 0.0.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1432 - 2015-02-20 13:44:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

No, your guys locked him and scrammed him as he decloaked, then the Mach got a bump on him


Wait, what?

They scrammed him first and then... bumped him away from the scram? It sounds like you're just tacking on more parts to make the lie plausible.


Once he is bumped he cannot warp so it does not matter, either your trolling or you are ignorant of certain mechanics, which would surprise me.


You said he had an escort. If he was bumped he could still have warped if the escort got involved.

Your story has holes in it.


He had a webbing escort, they used a noob ship to scram him then got the bump on and kept bumping him, he asked for help and some people came, he survived one attempt, but not the second, but his ship ended up with holes in it, lots of them, if you like holes of course and who doesn't?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1433 - 2015-02-20 13:47:01 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

He had a webbing escort, they used a noob ship to scram him then got the bump on and kept bumping him, he asked for help and some people came, he survived one attempt, but not the second, but his ship ended up with holes in it, lots of them, if you like holes of course and who doesn't?


So.

They scrammed him first with a noob ship, then bumped him. Correct? Or did they attack the escort too?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1434 - 2015-02-20 14:00:45 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

He had a webbing escort, they used a noob ship to scram him then got the bump on and kept bumping him, he asked for help and some people came, he survived one attempt, but not the second, but his ship ended up with holes in it, lots of them, if you like holes of course and who doesn't?


So.

They scrammed him first with a noob ship, then bumped him. Correct? Or did they attack the escort too?


Once they have the bump and keep bumping even with webs on its difficult to get into warp, you should watch this guy at work, he is good at it, so no need to attack the webbing ship, though I do not know what webber was being used.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1435 - 2015-02-20 14:13:33 UTC
So, hold on here. You said he survived one attempt, only to die to the second.

How exactly did that work? I mean, in that whole time the escort plus whoever else decided to help couldn't get him out?

I find this hard to believe.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1436 - 2015-02-20 14:17:36 UTC
Some people were ECMing the gank ships, rightly focusing on the Brutixes and Taloses.

Wouldn't a noobship get crushed by gate gun damage? What's the delay between agression and and gate guns firing?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Valterra Craven
#1437 - 2015-02-20 14:36:37 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
EVE is about player freedom


If playing Eve badly is not a valid playstyle then Eve is not "free".
Valterra Craven
#1438 - 2015-02-20 14:41:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Offline POS'es squatting in highsec for eternity is abominable. Anywhere else in the game it would be dead in hours, but in highsec you can actually just turn the ****** off and be fine, because CONCORD.


And yet all it takes to quell concord is a wardec. Its funny how you complain about carebears not using the tools available to them when gankers aren't either.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1439 - 2015-02-20 14:46:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So, hold on here. You said he survived one attempt, only to die to the second.

How exactly did that work? I mean, in that whole time the escort plus whoever else decided to help couldn't get him out?

I find this hard to believe.


I will humour you.

His own escort was a single webbing character, I did not notice what he was in. Some people came to help, this was not in a normal area because it was a scam contract so very few were close by, I did not see the first gank attempt I was not there, but the bumper was keeping him well bumped. I decided to come with repping ships but when I got there that was already catered for and that is when I found out that he was still bumping the freighter, so I kept one toon there to help rep and went back to get another ship to do something about the Mach, sadly they brought in the ships to kill him before I could return.

The freighter did not die to hyperdunking in the end it was a heavy dps gank and due to my bumping of the Ark they are bringing BC's in the main to stop that from working.

Clever guys and again well executed, including the scam contract which made them a fair chunk of ISK.

You will be happy to know that the freighter pilot was not AFK, there was emergent game play in that people tried to save him, you should also note that the gankers have now war dec'd him to add further to his pain, but he is not whining about it, bore the loss well and learnt from it, bit risky taking that obvious scam contract, what more can one say, he was not afk, had a webber, was tanked but not fully and survived one attack and people tried to help him.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Valterra Craven
#1440 - 2015-02-20 14:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Black Pedro wrote:

This is because highsec missions and incursions pay too much compared to nullsec after you factor in the risk and/or effort needed to mitigate that risk.



See here's the thing. I've been here since 2006. (Actually earlier, but details). You know what has stood virtually unchanged since then? Missions. You know what hasn't gone unchanged? Null sec. The biggest problems I have with the argument that you can make too much isk in hi-sec is it is entirely dependent on what is and is not possible in null sec. Put it this way. Why would nerfing hi-sec income in any way change the current dynamics of null sec? The answer is it wouldn't. People leaving null sec still have absolutely zero reason to go back. The only thing nerfing hi-sec accomplishes is making everyone poorer. Now you can argue about how that affects the game for good or ill, but what it won't do is fix anything anywhere else.