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C4 Data/Relic site sleepers are really @$*&ing hard!

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Abraham Vyacheslav
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-01-24 23:14:32 UTC
Good lord... I was running C4 combat sites with an RR Dominix duo, smooth enough, and decided to try the "harder" relic/data sites. The last wave of 4 battleships though... holy smokes!

80 Gj/second neuts and almost 2,000 DPS is a massive, massive increase in difficulty compared to normal C4 sites.

I managed to clear two, and it was actually sort of thrilling - my tank and capacitor were both breaking, but my spreadsheet said I'd take out the first sleeper before it was critical and just barely kill the second before being neuted dry, then could hold for the final two. Math won the day, but holy **** that was more thrilling than I expected it to be!

How do people usually handle the sleepers in C4 data/relic sites? A marauder seems like such a high-risk choice, and dealing with 80 Gj/s neuts won't be easy without crippling DPS and/or tank there either.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#2 - 2015-01-24 23:24:44 UTC
RR domis are the best tbh. Although 3 is preferred for the data relic. Marauders work really well.

My corp used to use a carrier with a group of Battleships. Or a guardian pair.
Levina Windstar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-01-25 01:29:08 UTC
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:
Good lord... I was running C4 combat sites with an RR Dominix duo, smooth enough, and decided to try the "harder" relic/data sites. The last wave of 4 battleships though... holy smokes!

80 Gj/second neuts and almost 2,000 DPS is a massive, massive increase in difficulty compared to normal C4 sites.

I managed to clear two, and it was actually sort of thrilling - my tank and capacitor were both breaking, but my spreadsheet said I'd take out the first sleeper before it was critical and just barely kill the second before being neuted dry, then could hold for the final two. Math won the day, but holy **** that was more thrilling than I expected it to be!

How do people usually handle the sleepers in C4 data/relic sites? A marauder seems like such a high-risk choice, and dealing with 80 Gj/s neuts won't be easy without crippling DPS and/or tank there either.


With only 2 RR domi? Surely you had crazy implants and/or boosters...

With no boosters of any kind, we need 4 RR domi to do this wave

"I can make billions using my mouth ...

... and sometimes when I talk, too" --- Solecist Project
Abraham Vyacheslav
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-01-25 03:29:52 UTC
Levina Windstar wrote:
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:
Good lord... I was running C4 combat sites with an RR Dominix duo, smooth enough, and decided to try the "harder" relic/data sites. The last wave of 4 battleships though... holy smokes!

80 Gj/second neuts and almost 2,000 DPS is a massive, massive increase in difficulty compared to normal C4 sites.

I managed to clear two, and it was actually sort of thrilling - my tank and capacitor were both breaking, but my spreadsheet said I'd take out the first sleeper before it was critical and just barely kill the second before being neuted dry, then could hold for the final two. Math won the day, but holy **** that was more thrilling than I expected it to be!

How do people usually handle the sleepers in C4 data/relic sites? A marauder seems like such a high-risk choice, and dealing with 80 Gj/s neuts won't be easy without crippling DPS and/or tank there either.


With only 2 RR domi? Surely you had crazy implants and/or boosters...

With no boosters of any kind, we need 4 RR domi to do this wave


The secret sauce was armor links (damnation, but only command ships 3), otherwise T2 equipment and very high skills (close to maxed for all relevant equipment). Even so I think I calculated my peak tank at 1,800 DPS or so... BARELY enough to tank the wave for the time it takes to kill one BS.

The fit is VERY tight, and at least one domi is going to burn some/all cap boosters before the first BS goes down. Talisman implants are cheap so I may use those or drop an omni for another cap booster to make it less terrifying.

[Dominix, C4 RR Domi]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800


Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Anti-EM Pump I
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#5 - 2015-01-25 09:45:23 UTC
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:

How do people usually handle the sleepers in C4 data/relic sites? A marauder seems like such a high-risk choice, and dealing with 80 Gj/s neuts won't be easy without crippling DPS and/or tank there either.


I finally managed to trigger the waves in the site and tried this 4xSafeguard wave in a Kronos that flies thru the other sites (single rep, heavy NOS, heavy cap booster), but had to bail out due to neuting. I'll try with dual cap boosters and dual NOS and all armor links, it should work as fitting for cap doesn't really cripple anything.

Zekora Rally
U2EZ
#6 - 2015-01-25 10:34:41 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:

How do people usually handle the sleepers in C4 data/relic sites? A marauder seems like such a high-risk choice, and dealing with 80 Gj/s neuts won't be easy without crippling DPS and/or tank there either.


I finally managed to trigger the waves in the site and tried this 4xSafeguard wave in a Kronos that flies thru the other sites (single rep, heavy NOS, heavy cap booster), but had to bail out due to neuting. I'll try with dual cap boosters and dual NOS and all armor links, it should work as fitting for cap doesn't really cripple anything.


How were you able to do get it to work?
Abraham Vyacheslav
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-01-25 16:12:55 UTC
Zekora Rally wrote:
How were you able to do get it to work?


I've gotten it to work by clearing the initial spawn, then hacking/analyzing over and over. Eventually a failure triggers a spawn.

Done it twice now - the first time, they spawned on my first failure. The second time they spawned on my 4th or so.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#8 - 2015-01-25 16:38:27 UTC
I am apologizing for being a wh-noob but aren't those relic sites always the next classes difficulty level combat sites?

I found out the hard way the for example class 3 relic sites are actually class 4 combat sites.

It stands to reason that class 4 relic sites are class 5 combat sites, hence your struggle.

For the neuting part. yes this is nuts (I love it) but I would recommend a minmatar or Caldari marauder for them, which you can dual-xl-asb tank and are neut-resiliant, bastion the thing and shoot them.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#9 - 2015-01-25 21:04:21 UTC
Zekora Rally wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:

How do people usually handle the sleepers in C4 data/relic sites? A marauder seems like such a high-risk choice, and dealing with 80 Gj/s neuts won't be easy without crippling DPS and/or tank there either.


I finally managed to trigger the waves in the site and tried this 4xSafeguard wave in a Kronos that flies thru the other sites (single rep, heavy NOS, heavy cap booster), but had to bail out due to neuting. I'll try with dual cap boosters and dual NOS and all armor links, it should work as fitting for cap doesn't really cripple anything.


How were you able to do get it to work?


The second wave just randomly spawned after third or so can hack. I've earlier hacked every can without getting them to spawn, so v0v.

Abraham Vyacheslav
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-01-25 21:35:57 UTC
Yeah, today I got another one. I got the "site escalation" listed on Eve Survival (a safeguard with the initial spawn and an extra can), but then no additional spawns after :/
Pissfat
Tactically Challenged
The Initiative.
#11 - 2015-01-25 23:14:43 UTC
Are you doing normal sites with 2 RR Domis with boosts?

I am Winthorp you might remember me from such films as i got CCP to make signature ID's persistent through DT for their love of AU bros.
Abraham Vyacheslav
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-01-26 00:29:44 UTC
Pissfat wrote:
Are you doing normal sites with 2 RR Domis with boosts?


Boosts shouldn't be necessary, but I have them, so I run them if it's convenient. Otherwise yes, a pair of RR domis for all C4 combat sites so far.
Bleedingthrough
#13 - 2015-01-26 20:00:21 UTC
I am impressed, these sites can get you easily killed.
We used to do them with 4 domis minimum. (2 cap, 2 RR and 2 DLA in the highs)

Btw. if you can handle these sites well you can also do C5 sites for ~300 mil/site.
Abraham Vyacheslav
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-01-26 20:37:10 UTC
I've considered C5 sites, but the risk seems significantly higher, so I'm taking my time. Slower to run, C5s generally higher traffic, and harder to secure/scout due to more regular empire connections (from what I've seen).

I'm sure I'll try when safe conditions present themselves and I'm a bit more comfortable in WH space generally, especially because a few insured domis aren't a large risk in terms of isk on the field.
Bleedingthrough
#15 - 2015-01-26 23:23:42 UTC
Abraham Vyacheslav wrote:
I've considered C5 sites, but the risk seems significantly higher, so I'm taking my time. Slower to run, C5s generally higher traffic, and harder to secure/scout due to more regular empire connections (from what I've seen).


Woot? C4 space that empty these days? I know of a pvp oriented groups that moved into a C4 after they got dual statics and I assumes C4s would be interesting as a static too. On the other hand C5-space is only mildly scary. People don't chain roll much anymore and 90% of its native population avoids fights most of the time.

Anyways, if you are interested in testing C5 stuff, I might be able to arrange something for you. (hint: Check my bio)
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#16 - 2015-01-27 18:34:41 UTC
The 4x Safegard wave has always been hell on fleets... Big smile

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#17 - 2015-01-28 03:55:55 UTC
Nash MacAllister wrote:
The 4x Safegard wave has always been hell on fleets... Big smile


As a former C4 resident, screw u & ur friends.
dark dreamur
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-02-10 14:45:56 UTC
golem can handle it , though it requires a depot to swap out a pair of the BCU for cap modules, but thats without any links or drugs. Its a hell of a spawn and your whole fleet deff have to be on the same page.
We ran this last night an a corp mate in a tengu almost got toasted, warped out in low armour.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-02-10 15:19:49 UTC
To be fair, it's only half the data/relics. The other data/relic sites in C4 are a joke. Both in their difficulty and that the last wave spawns in the next system. Seriously I've had at least one time the last wave spawned off grid.