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should CCP get rid of the PLEX system?

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2015-01-28 18:51:53 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:



It is not irrelevent. There is only ONE place to get plex. Whether you use isk or money Plex comes from CCP for $15. So the replacement value of Plex is always $15 or whatever CCP is charging these days.


No. The value you lose if someone scam you out of a PLEX is not the value you paid for because the item does not have that value. It has the ISK value of what the market is willing to pay for it or whatever service CCP is willing to grant you for a PLEX.

For a PLEX to have a value of 15$, it would have to be possible to sell it for 15$.



ok, You obviously do not know what the term "REPLACEMENT COST" means.



For a dude called Market McSelling Alt, you sure as hell don't understand what the value of an item is.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#82 - 2015-01-28 18:53:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:



It is not irrelevent. There is only ONE place to get plex. Whether you use isk or money Plex comes from CCP for $15. So the replacement value of Plex is always $15 or whatever CCP is charging these days.


No. The value you lose if someone scam you out of a PLEX is not the value you paid for because the item does not have that value. It has the ISK value of what the market is willing to pay for it or whatever service CCP is willing to grant you for a PLEX.

For a PLEX to have a value of 15$, it would have to be possible to sell it for 15$.



ok, You obviously do not know what the term "REPLACEMENT COST" means.



For a dude called Market McSelling Alt, you sure as hell don't understand what the value of an item is.



Value of an item and replacement value of an item... Since there is only one place to get plex, replacement value of an item is the amount your credit card is hit on CCP's website. This isn't that hard.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#83 - 2015-01-28 18:54:58 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:



It is not irrelevent. There is only ONE place to get plex. Whether you use isk or money Plex comes from CCP for $15. So the replacement value of Plex is always $15 or whatever CCP is charging these days.


No. The value you lose if someone scam you out of a PLEX is not the value you paid for because the item does not have that value. It has the ISK value of what the market is willing to pay for it or whatever service CCP is willing to grant you for a PLEX.

For a PLEX to have a value of 15$, it would have to be possible to sell it for 15$.



ok, You obviously do not know what the term "REPLACEMENT COST" means.



For a dude called Market McSelling Alt, you sure as hell don't understand what the value of an item is.



Value of an item and replacement value of an item... Since there is only one place to get plex, replacement value of an item is the amount your credit card is hit on CCP's website. This isn't that hard.


I can get a PLEX without sending any money to CCP and also without doing anything against the game rules.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#84 - 2015-01-28 18:56:20 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Value of an item and replacement value of an item... Since there is only one place to get plex
That's just it: there is not just one place to get a PLEX, and the replacement cost will vary with the place of acquisition. But more than that, that cost is highly disconnected from how much value you lost when the PLEX was scammed from you.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#85 - 2015-01-28 19:04:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Value of an item and replacement value of an item... Since there is only one place to get plex
That's just it: there is not just one place to get a PLEX, and the replacement cost will vary with the place of acquisition. But more than that, that cost is highly disconnected from how much value you lost when the PLEX was scammed from you.



NO MATTER WHERE YOU PERSONALLY GET PLEX IT WAS ONCE BOUGHT THROUGH CCP. PERIOD

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2015-01-28 19:08:38 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Value of an item and replacement value of an item... Since there is only one place to get plex
That's just it: there is not just one place to get a PLEX, and the replacement cost will vary with the place of acquisition. But more than that, that cost is highly disconnected from how much value you lost when the PLEX was scammed from you.



NO MATTER WHERE YOU PERSONALLY GET PLEX IT WAS ONCE BOUGHT THROUGH CCP. PERIOD


And that does not matter for it's VALUE. Only it's cost of "creation". The item's value is based on how people evaluate it's worth, if for you it's 14$, it does not make it true when anyone would tell you it's actualy not worth any amount of money since it's not tradable back for money. It would be closer to be worth 15$ if there was a way to cash in PLEX but since such things does note exist (legally at least) then this cannot be attributed as it's value.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#87 - 2015-01-28 19:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
NO MATTER WHERE YOU PERSONALLY GET PLEX IT WAS ONCE BOUGHT THROUGH CCP. PERIOD

…and the replacement cost will vary between 5 minutes or <800M ISK or $0.15 on Failmazon on a lucky day, all depending on how and where you choose to replace it. And none of that actually changes the value of of the PLEX — it never (legally) valued at $15 once you get your hands on it.

The really funny thing is this: for the only party where that $15 could be considered the one true replacement cost or its value, a PLEX is never lost in way that needs to be replaced. Blink
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#88 - 2015-01-28 19:10:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
NO MATTER WHERE YOU PERSONALLY GET PLEX IT WAS ONCE BOUGHT THROUGH CCP. PERIOD

…and the replacement cost will vary between 5 minutes or <800M ISK or $0.15 on Failmazon, all depending on how and where you choose to replace it. And none of that actually changes the value of of the PLEX — it never (legally) valued at $15 once you get your hands on it.

The really funny thing is this: for the only party where that $15 could be considered the one true replacement cost or its value, a PLEX is never lost in way that needs to be replaced. Blink



Well that isn't entirely true either because plex can be exchanged back to CCP for a value of about $10 or $15 again. Game time and character enhancements/sevices.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2015-01-28 19:16:55 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
NO MATTER WHERE YOU PERSONALLY GET PLEX IT WAS ONCE BOUGHT THROUGH CCP. PERIOD

…and the replacement cost will vary between 5 minutes or <800M ISK or $0.15 on Failmazon, all depending on how and where you choose to replace it. And none of that actually changes the value of of the PLEX — it never (legally) valued at $15 once you get your hands on it.

The really funny thing is this: for the only party where that $15 could be considered the one true replacement cost or its value, a PLEX is never lost in way that needs to be replaced. Blink



Well that isn't entirely true either because plex can be exchanged back to CCP for a value of about $10 or $15 again. Game time and character enhancements/sevices.


Except you are not getting money back but game time or another service hence why we say the PLEX is worth game time, account service or whatever the market will pay for it and NOT 15$.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#90 - 2015-01-28 19:18:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Well that isn't entirely true either because plex can be exchanged back to CCP for a value of about $10 or $15 again. Game time and character enhancements/sevices.
Game time and character enhancements are not $10 or $15. So no, as mentioned, outside of the game, a PLEX is worth those services, nothing else. Well, unless you break the EULA, in which case they'll probably cost you roughly one account.

At no point when you have it in your hands is its value anything that begins with $ (or € or £).
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#91 - 2015-01-28 19:52:04 UTC
Solops Crendraven wrote:
I dont mind Plex For $20 However I should be geting 2 billion isk not this not 600 million 1 day and 800million another day the price should be the same thats why they need to get rid of this player economics dosnt make sense instead have a CCP Store where you Buy everything like any normal MMO .



I.. wait what? You want to destroy one of the things that makes eve eve? I never say this.. but.. go back to WoW.

The reason you sell plex for isk is to combat RMT. the price adjust based on supply and demand, much like an isk seller would just keep giving you more isk for the same money over time. If the plex cost go up with demand it means that if I have the choice between buying 800m isk from site x for $20 or buying a plex for $20 that I can see at the introductory price of 250m (yes they were 250m when they first came out) Then what am I going to pick?

However, if the price of plex rises with demand, and I want 800m.. well i'll buy the plex as then I won't get banned.

As I already said, plex needs to be decoupled from everything EXCEPT game time. Arum should be used to buy plex, and other such stuff. Plex can be sold for isk if you chose, hell its an ingame item, but I should just be able to sell Arum for isk.

But baring that, I go to ccp. I buy $20 worth of Arum. I go to the NES, I buy my plex with arum, and use it, or sell it for isk. I can also buy char training, resculpt, for arum. When the alliance tournament comes up, CCP makes AT tokens, that I buy for arum and can sell on the market. the tokens are always there but not valuable till the AT shows up.

That's what needs to happen. Two currencies, Isk or ARUM. Plex decoupled, and used for JUST game time. That's all. this will curb plex prices.

OR you eliminate plex. remove it fully.

I then buy Arum, can sell tokens on the market. I use said token to buy game time, or other goodies from the NES store.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2015-01-28 21:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
DaReaper wrote:
[quote=Solops Crendraven]I dont mind Plex For $20 However I should be geting 2 billion isk not this not 600 million 1 day and 800million another day the price should be the same thats why they need to get rid of this player economics dosnt make sense instead have a CCP Store where you Buy everything like any normal MMO .



I.. wait what? You want to destroy one of the things that makes eve eve? I never say this.. but.. go back to WoW.

The reason you sell plex for isk is to combat RMT. the price adjust based on supply and demand, much like an isk seller would just keep giving you more isk for the same money over time. If the plex cost go up with demand it means that if I have the choice between buying 800m isk from site x for $20 or buying a plex for $20 that I can see at the introductory price of 250m (yes they were 250m when they first came out) Then what am I going to pick?

However, if the price of plex rises with demand, and I want 800m.. well i'll buy the plex as then I won't get banned.

As I already said, plex needs to be decoupled from everything EXCEPT game time. Arum should be used to buy plex, and other such stuff. Plex can be sold for isk if you chose, hell its an ingame item, but I should just be able to sell Arum for isk.

But baring that, I go to ccp. I buy $20 worth of Arum. I go to the NES, I buy my plex with arum, and use it, or sell it for isk. I can also buy char training, resculpt, for arum. When the alliance tournament comes up, CCP makes AT tokens, that I buy for arum and can sell on the market. the tokens are always there but not valuable till the AT shows up.

That's what needs to happen. Two currencies, Isk or ARUM. Plex decoupled, and used for JUST game time. That's all. this will curb plex prices.

OR you eliminate plex. remove it fully.

I then buy Arum, can sell tokens on the market. I use said token to buy game time, or other goodies from the NES store.













My main issue is this up and down economics and not getting my $20 worth if eliminating Plex and sticking to Arum well fix that so be it. I just feel everything is overpriced and ridiculously expensive and on top of it I get a miserly amount isk For the Buck. Theres a reason wow has 10 million Subs And How come you cant level up your Pilot to 90?I think Eve Should stop trying to be so Hardcore its hurting Sells.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2015-01-28 21:22:35 UTC
Solops Crendraven wrote:


My main issue is this up and down economics and not getting my $20 worth if eliminating Plex and sticking to Arum well fix that so be it. I just feel everything is overpriced and ridiculously expensive and on top of it I get a miserly amount isk For the Buck.


You get what the market is willing to give you for a PLEX.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-01-28 21:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:


My main issue is this up and down economics and not getting my $20 worth if eliminating Plex and sticking to Arum well fix that so be it. I just feel everything is overpriced and ridiculously expensive and on top of it I get a miserly amount isk For the Buck.


You get what the market is willing to give you for a PLEX.

You Find that Ok?So Your telling you rather get your plex in a market that pretty much rips you off Plex vs 2billion fixed rate you can buy directly from CCP than shenanigans from players.

Im sorry as a Dev I wouldnt be Proud of a game That encourages Fraud and theft amongst players thats not Hardcore thats Criminal why would people want to subscribe to that.

And the craziest thing is I have to ask my Bank to Unblock Eve Online In The RW so i can buy plex every month because they flagged it as a Fraudulent company thats insane.

If they gave me back my Thousands of dollars i invested in this game trust me i wouldve unsubed along time ago.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#95 - 2015-01-28 22:22:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:


My main issue is this up and down economics and not getting my $20 worth if eliminating Plex and sticking to Arum well fix that so be it. I just feel everything is overpriced and ridiculously expensive and on top of it I get a miserly amount isk For the Buck.


You get what the market is willing to give you for a PLEX.

You Find that Ok?So Your telling you rather get your plex in a market that pretty much rips you off Plex vs 2billion fixed rate you can buy directly from CCP than shenanigans from players.

Im sorry as a Dev I wouldnt be Proud of a game That encourages Fraud and theft amongst players thats not Hardcore thats Criminal why would people want to subscribe to that.

And the craziest thing is I have to ask my Bank to Unblock Eve Online In The RW so i can buy plex every month because they flagged it as a Fraudulent company thats insane.

If they gave me back my Thousands of dollars i invested in this game trust me i wouldve unsubed along time ago.
Which part of the words "PLAYER DRIVEN ECONOMY" do you fail to understand?

It's a term that CCP use in a lot of their advertising, is a major feature of the game and one of the selling points of Eve.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2015-01-28 22:31:21 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:


My main issue is this up and down economics and not getting my $20 worth if eliminating Plex and sticking to Arum well fix that so be it. I just feel everything is overpriced and ridiculously expensive and on top of it I get a miserly amount isk For the Buck.


You get what the market is willing to give you for a PLEX.

You Find that Ok?So Your telling you rather get your plex in a market that pretty much rips you off Plex vs 2billion fixed rate you can buy directly from CCP than shenanigans from players.

Im sorry as a Dev I wouldnt be Proud of a game That encourages Fraud and theft amongst players thats not Hardcore thats Criminal why would people want to subscribe to that.

And the craziest thing is I have to ask my Bank to Unblock Eve Online In The RW so i can buy plex every month because they flagged it as a Fraudulent company thats insane.

If they gave me back my Thousands of dollars i invested in this game trust me i wouldve unsubed along time ago.
Which part of "PLAYER DRIVEN ECONOMY", which incidentally is one of the major selling points of Eve and is a term that CCP use in their advertising, do you fail to understand?

I get It... I Understand "the player driven economy" is a FAIL They would be more Successful Advertising Simcity Chimera roams thru space.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#97 - 2015-01-28 22:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Solops Crendraven wrote:
I get It... I Understand "the player driven economy" is a FAIL They would be more Successful Advertising Simcity Chimera roams thru space.
Please explain the thinking behind your claim that the player driven economy is a fail.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2015-01-28 22:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
I get It... I Understand "the player driven economy" is a FAIL They would be more Successful Advertising Simcity Chimera roams thru space.
Please explain the logic behind your claim that the player driven economy is a fail.

When a Virtual Ship(Titan) Costs $7600 that you dont own according to EULA thats illogical.For Gods sake man its a Down payment for a RW House. On Top of that I have to Buy Plex to Sub 3 accounts that I will never own .I might as well give all my Money To Benny Hinn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9SS95q2kpg

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#99 - 2015-01-28 23:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
I get It... I Understand "the player driven economy" is a FAIL They would be more Successful Advertising Simcity Chimera roams thru space.
Please explain the logic behind your claim that the player driven economy is a fail.

When a Virtual Ship(Titan) Costs $7600
No it doesn't, it has no real world value because it can't legally be sold in the real world; it may cost the isk equivalent of $7600 but that's beside the point.

The $ figures used in the media when talking about losses in Eve are comparative to make the scale of loss in Eve easier to comprehend for the general public; it is not a real value.

Quote:
that you dont own according to EULA thats illogical.For Gods sake man its a Down payment for a RW House. On Top I have to By Plex to Sub 3 accounts that I will never own .
Welcome to the terms of pretty much much every EULA ever.

Quote:
I might as well give all my Money To Benny Hinn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9SS95q2kpg
You get more value for money out of Eve than you will out of any televangelist.

TL;DR Why are you paying for a product that you think is poor value for money, especially when you can stop doing so at any time?

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2015-01-28 23:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Bottom line What I am saying is This wouldn't be a issue If CCP Allowed Players to sell their Plex and accounts for real money. I just dont see any ROI On This game and that too is against EULA . All Im Trying to do is make it cheaper and more affordable for us gamers thats all.The More we get rid of all the isk and material Sinks the Better.Get Rid Of The Plex!

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here