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Help with Rattlesnake fit for High Sec L4s.

Author
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-01-23 19:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: The Cyno NamedDino
I have maxed missile skills (for the missiles used here, at least) with the exception of Cruise Missile Spec, which is at IV. If I launch a volley at a BS with no a TP on it, then launch another with a TP on it, the damage is exactly the same. With my Golem, I think I need two TPs on a cruiser before damage is capped out, but it also has a Flare and two rigors, plus the bonus. However, I try not to fire missiles at anything other than a BS anyway.

Edit: Also, as far as I can tell, I would be much better off with a second shield resistance mod rather than a shield boost amp. My fit wouldnt allow for switching out the SeBo to a shield boost amp anyway, since it doesnt have enough CPU, but still.
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-01-23 21:14:03 UTC
The Cyno NamedDino wrote:
It is technically two valks and a warrior to fill up the bandwidth. The Valks hold up better, and still hit frigs fine, and the DPS is actually the same/slightly better with the Valks.
Assuming proper skills, the DPS from 5 warriors is higher than the DPS from 2 valks and a warrior.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-01-23 21:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: The Cyno NamedDino
With maxed skills, EFT disagrees with you. 64 vs 61 dps. Basically the same, but still, like, 5% more than with just the Warriors. Means nothing in the whole scheme of things, but like I said, I find it easier to keep Valks alive than Warriors.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#24 - 2015-01-23 21:31:39 UTC
What is "applied damage" Alex for $200?

The medium drones may get you a higher DPS number... but their tracking is significantly less than that of small drones... meaning you get less applied damage.

Also... 5x Hobgoblin IIs should satisfy all your anti-Frigate NPC needs. With the exception of Angels, Gallente drones hit either the primary or secondary weakness of all NPCs... meaning you kill things quicker and have to change out your drones between missions less.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-01-23 21:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: The Cyno NamedDino
A medium drone will still apply DPS just fine with two omnis. I am not talking about using a ogre here.

Edit: My bad on the omni comment. Forgot that I am obviously talking about the Golem, and not the RS, lol. Still though, they apply damage just fine. The DPS is almost non-existant no matter what.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#26 - 2015-01-23 21:42:26 UTC
True... but you still have that sig resolution issue with medium drones.

Overall... it is more "optimal" to use light drones for anti-frigate NPC duty... despite the loss in "raw" DPS.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-01-23 21:43:55 UTC
I will take a loss of 10 DPS if it means that I dont have to baby my drones quite as much.
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-01-23 23:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Chris Winter
The Cyno NamedDino wrote:
With maxed skills, EFT disagrees with you. 64 vs 61 dps. Basically the same, but still, like, 5% more than with just the Warriors. Means nothing in the whole scheme of things, but like I said, I find it easier to keep Valks alive than Warriors.

Maybe try using T2 warriors instead of T1. 80dps for a flight of 5. Because yeah, if you're comparing T2 valks to T1 warriors, the T2 comes out ahead. Imagine that.
Nycha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-01-24 09:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nycha
I just had dread pirate scarlet and with a 350dps omni tank it was easy. Shield never went below 50%, actually most damage received was in pocket 2. I never used mjd and simply tanked everything.
Pocket 4 had 2 cruise missile launcher and the whole rest of the damage was short range, I literally received 0 damage after killing the first close spawn and batteries.
IMO you made some sort of playing error.
Killorder should be always energy neutralizing tower > cruise missile battery > rest (if you dont use a mjd a stasis tower might be higher priority).
If you dont kill the long range damage sources first it explains why you have to warp out with your golem from the assault and pretty sure angel extra bonus room.
Anneke Tersis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-01-24 14:00:51 UTC
The Cyno NamedDino wrote:
If I launch a volley at a BS with no a TP on it, then launch another with a TP on it, the damage is exactly the same.

Which missiles, which rigs, which rats ? I'm genuinely curious, because my simulation on Angels BS and Cruise Fury lead to different conclusions.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-01-24 14:19:27 UTC
Angels are typically smaller, so you could be correct there. I cannot be sure which rats they were, as I didnt make note of it. I was actually doing it just to see if I was getting any benefit out of TPing the BS's, versus TPing the frigs/cruisers for my drones. Since I wasnt gaining anything by putting the TP on the BS's, I started using it on the frigs instead when I was shooting at BS's.

Missiles were fury cruises, which type I cannot be sure, not that it matters, and the rigs were exactly as posted before. Two T1 rigors. My Golem uses a t2 rigor and a t2 flare.
Anneke Tersis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-01-24 15:29:44 UTC
Angels are indeed smaller. Damn! I should have moved to another part of 0.0 RollBig smile
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2015-01-24 16:13:52 UTC
The Cyno NamedDino wrote:

Missiles were fury cruises, which type I cannot be sure, not that it matters, and the rigs were exactly as posted before. Two T1 rigors. My Golem uses a t2 rigor and a t2 flare.

Missile type does matter on the rattlesnake. It only gets bonuses to thermal and kinetic (inferno and scourge), unlike the golem which gets bonuses to all types.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-01-24 16:15:05 UTC
I am aware of this. That doesnt change its damage application based on sig, though.
Lil Bo Peep
Insight Securities
#35 - 2015-01-26 15:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lil Bo Peep
Anneke Tersis wrote:
To pump up damage you need T2 fury, but for these to be actually efficient you need max missile skills (like 5, no 4) and Rigor II. I've done the math, it's surprising: even on BS, T1 do more damage as soon as things are not maxed out.


I've noticed this myself, never quantified it but it seems I do best with T1 cruise missiles. How many Rigor II's does one need to come out ahead with Furies? You didn't pluralize it, but I get the impression you meant to. I'm working on all V's for the missile skills, will have them in a few more weeks. The TP seems to help, but the ships need to be in range and I don't like them that close.

Anyhow, my fit which requires a CPU implant: (Bling the Omni's with Fed ones Or CN BCU and you need an EE-603, otherwise EE-604...with my fitting skills)

[Rattlesnake]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II with Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II with Optimal Range Script
Phased Weapon...(Target Painter)
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Prototype 100 MN MWD

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I [may swap for a Rigor]
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I

Warden II x2
Garde II x2
[Mission Specific Sentry Drone] x2
Hobgoblin II x2

I've been messing around with my fit for a while, I think it could be better but it wotks. I believe absolute DPS isn't everything. I also don't like to mess with swapping **** around. This ship has good utility, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: doesn't take FOREVER to burn to gates. That can be a real time-saver. Yes, yes, MJD, whatever, I'm getting better at precision MJD'ing but relying on it alone is annoying.

I've solo'd the Angel Extravaganza bonus room without warp-off (not consistently, it's tricky in a RS) and can do Dread Pirate Scarlet consistently (when I don't just zip through the gates without killing everything). It's also cheap. Someone else mentioned one of this ships weaknesses and the solution: Guristas cruise missiles and Kin hardener, but I never swap for Dread Pirate, the above fit works fine for that. Just keep moving (orbit a sentry, MJD away from smaller ships coming into range) and kill the long range battleships first. Good lock range helps a lot with that.

By putting on a 3rd DDA I could gain ~75 DPS and loose the SigAmp (taking my lock range from 117 to 90...with my skills) but I like the range. I fight at 100 km, the optimal on my Wardens. You could also swap the TP for a shield extender and lessen the drone range (drop a DLA for a launcher) to get more tank and DPS.

edit: I MAY have had a shield extender instead of a TP when I cleared the AE bonus room, I forget
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