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Ship recommendations for PVE
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Dandan Shi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-01-22 05:22:01 UTC
Hi.
I'm a new player. I'm trying to find a guide/recommendation for PVE ships. But they are either too old or give no specific recommendation. There are some posts discussing this, but they are usually too old as well.
So what I want is like a list of ships in chronological order. Such as which one I should use first, and which one's next.
Thank you in advance.
Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-01-22 05:52:19 UTC
Your question is so vague... Seriously.

What are you doing in eve?
What tactics do you like?
Close range? Short range?
Weapon type? Ammo? Drones?
What enemies are you fighting?

There is no guide of ships because EVE is about tools. What shop does the right things for certain circumstances.

People can play for 10 years and make a 1 billion isk ship and get totally owned by bother PVE and pvp because they didn't bring the right tool for the job.
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-01-22 08:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Provence Tristram
Dandan Shi wrote:
Hi.
I'm a new player. I'm trying to find a guide/recommendation for PVE ships. But they are either too old or give no specific recommendation. There are some posts discussing this, but they are usually too old as well.
So what I want is like a list of ships in chronological order. Such as which one I should use first, and which one's next.
Thank you in advance.


Note: I'm skipping destroyers since cruisers are superior in every way, and you can train through level 3 dessies in like 4 hours.

Also note: this is just basic combat -- I'm skipping support, 'nuance' builds like Amarr drone ships, neut boats, etc.

Finally, I'm not dealing with T2/3 cruisers and/or navy ships. When you have the skills to fly them, you should know enough about the game to know what to do with them.

Caldari (Rails):
Merlin
Moa (so sweet)
Ferox
Rokh

Caldari (Missiles):
Kestrel
Caracal
Drake
Raven

Gallente (Rails/Blasters):
Incursus
Thorax
Brutix
Hyperion/Megathron

Gallente (Drones):
Tristan
Vexor (another sweet one)
Myrmidon
Dominix

Amarr:
Punisher
Maller/Omen
Harbinger
Apocalypse (always heard the Abaddon referred to as a bad PvE ship. I really miss the old Geddon. SIGH)

Minmatar:
Rifter
Stabber/Rupture
Hurricane
Maelstrom
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#4 - 2015-01-22 11:35:01 UTC
Provence Tristram wrote:

Amarr:
Punisher
Maller/Omen
Harbinger
Apocalypse (always heard the Abaddon referred to as a bad PvE ship. I really miss the old Geddon. SIGH)



Umm, you do not mission much , do you?

Pve in combat ships is ratting (kill NPC in ast. belts), running anomalies or missioning. Ratting or doing anomalies (not so much signatures but even they are not that good) in high sec is not worth the time. But it is the area, where Tristram advice can be valid, though strictly in Amarr space. OP is Gallente, so I guess he will start in Sinq Laison. Greate place to start, IMHO.

Let say OP's PVE is one of the most newbee friendly and profiting PVE activities - running missions.

Few rules of missions are :
1. You have to adjust your tank and damage type according to the mission. All mentioned in quote ships will really strugle in missions against angels, cause lasers do only EM / thermal damage.
2. Bigger ships are bad at shooting small targets and always (almost, Machariel khe,khe) slower- you really want to do missions in hull, that is more quick but also deadly enough to break the tank of the strongest NPC. Cruiser like Omen or Maller will have problems with battleship tanks, cause NPC battleships are repairing themself.
3. Unlike PvP you will face constant incomming damage for a long period of time. If you triger mission wrong , that damage can be as devastating as in PvP. But properly runned mission is balance of you active tank (armor repairer or shield booster) and range, where you guns are still effective. Closer to NPC - you repairer will not save you. Fahr away from NPC - your guns will not hit them... But you always use active tank, not passive, not combination of both. There are exceptions but I do not want to make this post really long.

So, if we combine all this - you need a ship for each level of the mission, that can tank rats, kill them fast enough and do not spend ages traveling.
As gallente you way is drone boats.
L1 missions - Algos
L2 missions - Vexor
L3 missions - Myrmidon
L4 missions - Dominix.

Google eve survival for information about what drones to use and what damage to tank
Google eve online battleclinic for ships fits.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-01-22 12:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Provence Tristram
erg cz wrote:
Provence Tristram wrote:

Amarr:
Punisher
Maller/Omen
Harbinger
Apocalypse (always heard the Abaddon referred to as a bad PvE ship. I really miss the old Geddon. SIGH)



Umm, you do not mission much , do you?


Aww, somebody's got a wittle chip on dere shoulders. Do you need a sucker and a pat on the head, champ?

Quote:
But it is the area, where Tristram advice can be valid, though strictly in Amarr space. OP is Gallente, so I guess he will start in Sinq Laison. Greate place to start, IMHO.


Have you flown level 1s recently? You can beat most of them in the racial starter frigates, provided you remove the mining laser. ANY combat-oriented frigate of ANY race can competently deal with ANY level 1 mission.

Quote:
So, if we combine all this - you need a ship for each level of the mission, that can tank rats, kill them fast enough and do not spend ages traveling.
As gallente you way is drone boats.
L1 missions - Algos
L2 missions - Vexor
L3 missions - Myrmidon
L4 missions - Dominix.

Google eve survival for information about what drones to use and what damage to tank
Google eve online battleclinic for ships fits.


So... same order I posted for Gallente... but you choose to get bent out of shape over my suggesting a frigate instead of a destroyer? How long is someone in a frigate/destroyer for these days? Half a week? At most?

I just did L1s in Gallente space in a Tristram. It went fine. I never died. And I never felt the need to grab a dessie because I could upgrade to a cruiser just by training the skills necessary overnight. Also, don't tell the guy he has to go drone boats exclusively because he's Gallente -- that's an outright lie. There are plenty of successful Gallente pilots who fly gunboats. There are also plenty of successful Gallente pilots WHO DON'T FLY GALLENTE SHIPS.

And that's the biggest disconnect of them all, because nowhere in his OP does he say anything about wanting to stay exclusively with Gallente.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#6 - 2015-01-22 13:40:43 UTC
Although drones are not the only option (and nor is Gallente) I would say that one primary consideration for any pilot entirely new to the game and looking at PvE is to simplify...
Drones and/or missiles are pretty much the ways to go in this case. Both will apply the same levels of damage throughout their engagement range - and because mission NPCs don't tend to change speed there is little which will change the performance - meanwhile with guns there will be ships getting under your tracking and so forth (particularly as a new pilot whose threat analysis has yet to develop).

Neither are the optimal route of course but they are consistent and therefore easy to learn.

I would also support the recommendation of Destroyers - it doesn't take much to train up from a Corax to a Caracal but from a Coercer to an Omen is a very different step - I would not recommend using cruisers for L1 missions due to the lack of targets for good damage application - and while it is possible to fly frigates in higher level missions (I know one pilot who used to use a T1 frig for L3s and an AF for L4s occasionally, just to spice things up) it is not easy for a new player with minimal pilot skills to do so. A newer player will get a significant benefit from the additional "guns" and tank* of the Destroyer over the frigate in most L1 missions.
It's difficult to account for low pilot skills (not SPs) because we barely consider a lot of the skills we've acquired most of the time but whereas I can (on a no SP alt) run the Sisters Epic Arc without significant difficulty in a frigate there are many newer players who lose destroyers on it and complete only with assistance.

*tank is arguable here - additional hitpoints may be entirely countered in some situations by additional sig rad and reduced speed...
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-01-22 13:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Provence Tristram
Jacob Holland wrote:
Although drones are not the only option (and nor is Gallente) I would say that one primary consideration for any pilot entirely new to the game and looking at PvE is to simplify...
Drones and/or missiles are pretty much the ways to go in this case. Both will apply the same levels of damage throughout their engagement range - and because mission NPCs don't tend to change speed there is little which will change the performance - meanwhile with guns there will be ships getting under your tracking and so forth (particularly as a new pilot whose threat analysis has yet to develop).

Neither are the optimal route of course but they are consistent and therefore easy to learn.

I would also support the recommendation of Destroyers - it doesn't take much to train up from a Corax to a Caracal but from a Coercer to an Omen is a very different step - I would not recommend using cruisers for L1 missions due to the lack of targets for good damage application - and while it is possible to fly frigates in higher level missions (I know one pilot who used to use a T1 frig for L3s and an AF for L4s occasionally, just to spice things up) it is not easy for a new player with minimal pilot skills to do so. A newer player will get a significant benefit from the additional "guns" and tank* of the Destroyer over the frigate in most L1 missions.
It's difficult to account for low pilot skills (not SPs) because we barely consider a lot of the skills we've acquired most of the time but whereas I can (on a no SP alt) run the Sisters Epic Arc without significant difficulty in a frigate there are many newer players who lose destroyers on it and complete only with assistance.

*tank is arguable here - additional hitpoints may be entirely countered in some situations by additional sig rad and reduced speed...


I'd argue that the second easiest weapon system to understand after missiles is actually laser weaponry, simply because it is so easy to cycle through the crystals based on ranges. Whereas anything beyond light scout drones (and even then) you have to consider damage types, what size drones to use for what enemies, etc. Drones actually represented a more daunting mountain to climb as a new player than guns (this was many years ago, but I remember it quite well). It was at least a year before I took drones on to a degree that I attained competency.

With Amarr, it's literally turn off weapon, cycle crystal, turn weapon back on.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2015-01-22 16:28:32 UTC
Dandan Shi wrote:
Hi.
I'm a new player. I'm trying to find a guide/recommendation for PVE ships. But they are either too old or give no specific recommendation. There are some posts discussing this, but they are usually too old as well.
So what I want is like a list of ships in chronological order. Such as which one I should use first, and which one's next.
Thank you in advance.

depends
thers a lot of ships in eve
and lot pve things.

can you elaborate at all?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Medio Morde
Army of n0ne
#9 - 2015-01-22 21:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Medio Morde
I'd say for a gallente pilot, your least skill intensive path in my opinion would be an MJD rail fit hyperion.

Why not blasters? Missions would take longer to complete due to having to burn into optimal ranges for max efficiency.

Why not drones? Two reasons: 1. Rats tend to target drones quite a bit these days and without some good management or skills, you stand to lose a good chunk of isk everytime one blows up. 2. More skills involved, which means more time training them up to be as effective.

Why rails? The skill tree is pretty linear to follow and doesn't take too long to get tech 2 large rail guns. Also the DPS can be really good, and with the ability to hit hard at 100k, you don't need to spend as much time training up tanking skills. Also its alot funner to intapop rats with turrets coming from your ship instead of drones.

btw MJD stands for micro jump drive. It basically warps you 100km away in whatever direction you're facing.

Oh and a hyperion because you can have more tank for situations where you might need it due to failed jump, or whatever else.
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-01-22 22:04:26 UTC
Medio Morde wrote:
I'd say for a gallente pilot, your least skill intensive path in my opinion would be an MJD rail fit hyperion.

Why not blasters? Missions would take longer to complete due to having to burn into optimal ranges for max efficiency.

Why not drones? Two reasons: 1. Rats tend to target drones quite a bit these days and without some good management or skills, you stand to lose a good chunk of isk everytime one blows up. 2. More skills involved, which means more time training them up to be as effective.

Why rails? The skill tree is pretty linear to follow and doesn't take too long to get tech 2 large rail guns. Also the DPS can be really good, and with the ability to hit hard at 100k, you don't need to spend as much time training up tanking skills. Also its alot funner to intapop rats with turrets coming from your ship instead of drones.

btw MJD stands for micro jump drive. It basically warps you 100km away in whatever direction you're facing.

Oh and a hyperion because you can have more tank for situations where you might need it due to failed jump, or whatever else.


I don't want to derail the thread too significantly, but is a Hyperion preferable to a Mega for a long-range rail build... and, if so, why? I always thought the Mega was the one that at-range players preferred.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-01-23 00:21:53 UTC
hyperion has much better fitting than a mega. Meaning 425mms fit on it a lot easier leaving room for other stuff

Art of Explosions
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-01-23 00:44:05 UTC
The answer is: Drake.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Dandan Shi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-01-23 01:18:44 UTC
First thanks for your help!
@Brylan Grey @Ralph King-Griffin
As a new player I will start with missions, so for now you could just tell me what should I use for different mission levels.

@Provence Tristram
Yep, I think I could figure those (T1/T2 stuff) out later.
And I am open to any race. Because I heard that Caldari&Gallente are kind of bad on PVE. I'm not sure if that is true.

@erg cz
Thanks for the detailed advice.

@Jacob Holland
Ahh, it seems drone is not a good option for me...
And I'll go with destroyers.

I think I know what I should aim for...
But when I want to choose a ship in the future, what specification should I look at?
It seems that the type of NPC is really important.
Also, maybe a ship could perform very well with expensive stuffs, but I don't think I will spend a lot on a single ship.
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-01-23 03:03:12 UTC
Dandan Shi wrote:
First thanks for your help!
@Brylan Grey @Ralph King-Griffin
As a new player I will start with missions, so for now you could just tell me what should I use for different mission levels.

@Provence Tristram
Yep, I think I could figure those (T1/T2 stuff) out later.
And I am open to any race. Because I heard that Caldari&Gallente are kind of bad on PVE. I'm not sure if that is true.

@erg cz
Thanks for the detailed advice.

@Jacob Holland
Ahh, it seems drone is not a good option for me...
And I'll go with destroyers.

I think I know what I should aim for...
But when I want to choose a ship in the future, what specification should I look at?
It seems that the type of NPC is really important.
Also, maybe a ship could perform very well with expensive stuffs, but I don't think I will spend a lot on a single ship.


A sniper-rigged Dominix is a veritable force of nature in level 4s. I believe it is one of the most efficient of all PvE BSes. Same goes for the Raven. Missiles have lower PvP utility due to their flight time, so ships like the Drake and the Raven are regarded a PvE-leaning, but extremely potent contendors for best PvE BC and BS.

Honestly, I think the race with the biggest shortcomings in PvE (if there is such a race) is either Amarr due to cap concerns, or Minmatar because a couple of their BSes are just so-so PvEers.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#15 - 2015-01-23 12:25:22 UTC
Provence Tristram wrote:


Have you flown level 1s recently? You can beat most of them in the racial starter frigates, provided you remove the mining laser. ANY combat-oriented frigate of ANY race can competently deal with ANY level 1 mission.



Missioning is not about to survive the mission. It is about make them quick enough to get good ISK ratio. Thats why destroyer is better - you will simply have more guns so you can hit more targets simultaniously.

Here is the L1 blitz machine for ppl, who run hundrets of L1 missions to fix their standings:
[Algos, Algos: L1 PVE drone boat]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

1MN Afterburner II
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Medium Shield Extender II

125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Drone Durability Enhancer I

Warrior II x5
Hobgoblin II x3
Valkyrie II x2

Whith newbee skill you have to meta all modules and downgrade guns to have all 75mm gatlings, but the idea is obvious. On the other hand this is no classical PVE fit since it is a buffer, passive tanked ship. But it does over 300 DPS with cheap ammo and Warrior drones. If flyed properly (use range tank as well as your shields), you can kill all rats before they chew through your 2,3 kHP shield.

In Amarr space you really are better off with amarr ship like this:
[Coercer, Coercer: Level 1 Blitz Mobile]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam I
Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam I
Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam I
Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam I
Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam I
Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam I
Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam I
Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam I

Small Energy Burst Aerator I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I

Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/64878-Coercer-Level-1-Blitz-Mobile.html#ixzz3Pe84WZ5N

No drones, pure guns boat. Link will give you an idea how to use it. Lees damage, than an algos, but the damage is of exactly correct type and really easy to use. Just something Tristram suggests :)

Gallente + Caldari battleship skills will open you one of the most effective L4 mission runners out there = Rattlesnake.
But I do not like caldari traitors, so I fly proper Gallente PvE warrior:
[Dominix, 175 km]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer I

Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Medium 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Medium 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II

Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Gecko

Cheap, effective at ranges from 0 to 175 km. But at ranges around 80-90 km properly fitted Rattlesnake will be even more effective.

Gallente and Minmatar battleship skills will open you to true hardcore action L4 blitz machine - Machariel. But it is whole another story cause it is close range combat deadly weapon, which is much more personal pilot skill demanding, then any other L4 mission runner.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#16 - 2015-01-23 13:50:12 UTC
Provence Tristram wrote:
I'd argue that the second easiest weapon system to understand after missiles is actually laser weaponry, simply because it is so easy to cycle through the crystals based on ranges. Whereas anything beyond light scout drones (and even then) you have to consider damage types, what size drones to use for what enemies, etc. Drones actually represented a more daunting mountain to climb as a new player than guns (this was many years ago, but I remember it quite well). It was at least a year before I took drones on to a degree that I attained competency.

At L1 missions - and to a great degree L2s as well - the damage type is all but irrelevant. The resists (and EHP) most of the NPC frigates have at this level are such that the variation in damage between crones comes from tracking and damage mod rather than resists - a new player running four drones from an Algos is unlikely to notice any significant difference regardless of the drone types they use (with the single exception of Whatsisname in the Epic Arc). Low level mission NPCs will rarely target your drones - and rarely do any damage to them even if they do - so these are all things you can learn bit by bit as you progress...

Meanwhile a dual-light beam Coercer is thinking "the target's at 24km so I think that's the Radio crystals {switch crystals, F1} now it's at eighteen, is that Microwave or Gamma? {switches crystals, waits to check range tooltip, switches crystals again, checks range tooltip again to be sure, realises the target is now orbitting at 2.5km, switches crystals to Multis, F1} but now I'm missing all the time... oh no! my capacitor is really low and there are loads of things shooting me now, I need to switch to standard crystals to save energy {switches to standard crystals, still can't hit the target orbitting under the guns}...

A little hyperbole of course but this is why I tend to recommend missiles or drones initially. As the player gets to grips with the ideas of tracking, cap management, threat assessment and so forth they can begin to load themselves with other things like which ammo is for which task (should I be using Radio or Multis here?... (to which of course the forums always reply Scorch...)) how important resistances become and so on.

Of course it's also important to consider what the pilot themselves find intriguing - some people like the idea of going down a flight of stairs with nothing but an office chair and an uzi...
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-01-23 14:26:44 UTC
Dandan Shi wrote:
First thanks for your help!
@Brylan Grey @Ralph King-Griffin
As a new player I will start with missions, so for now you could just tell me what should I use for different mission levels.

@Provence Tristram
Yep, I think I could figure those (T1/T2 stuff) out later.
And I am open to any race. Because I heard that Caldari&Gallente are kind of bad on PVE. I'm not sure if that is true.

@erg cz
Thanks for the detailed advice.

@Jacob Holland
Ahh, it seems drone is not a good option for me...
And I'll go with destroyers.

I think I know what I should aim for...
But when I want to choose a ship in the future, what specification should I look at?
It seems that the type of NPC is really important.
Also, maybe a ship could perform very well with expensive stuffs, but I don't think I will spend a lot on a single ship.


If missioning is going to be your thing. (please switch to something more interesting asap) then you want to follow either the gallente or caldari path suggested and then fill in the other path behind in order to buy a rattlesnake (drones+ missiles) for an overtanked 1400 dps mission wtfpwnmobile.
i would suggest the gallente path first as missile usage outside pve is a little niche whereas nobody regrets training gallente ships when they move over to pvp of some sort. The drone skills will be usful for most ships in the game also.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Dandan Shi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-01-24 01:47:24 UTC
@Provence Tristram
Got it.

@erg cz @Jacob Holland @Silvetica Dian
Since C and G are better for PVE, and G will also work well for pvp + drones are easy to use, then I will go with [Algos-Vexor-Myrmidon-Dominix].

@Silvetica Dian
Surely I will do anomaly and other stuffs later...
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-01-24 23:37:16 UTC
Dandan Shi wrote:
@Provence Tristram
Got it.

@erg cz @Jacob Holland @Silvetica Dian
Since C and G are better for PVE, and G will also work well for pvp + drones are easy to use, then I will go with [Algos-Vexor-Myrmidon-Dominix].

@Silvetica Dian
Surely I will do anomaly and other stuffs later...


The only problem with drones in PvP -- particularly drone ships that drop gardes (they're stationary little things that shoot a long ways) -- is that a lot of the PvP in EVE is roving 'gang' stuff, and the leaders of these groups often (though not always) want to move very quickly from waypoint to waypoint because they've gotten word of an enemy force. This renders drone-heavy ships in this style of PvP problematic due to the fact that you need to deploy and then pick up after yourself every time there's some chance of engagement... which makes it very difficult to keep up.

Again, it's not ALWAYS an issue, but it is something to think about.
Dandan Shi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-01-25 08:49:57 UTC
Provence Tristram wrote:
Dandan Shi wrote:
@Provence Tristram
Got it.

@erg cz @Jacob Holland @Silvetica Dian
Since C and G are better for PVE, and G will also work well for pvp + drones are easy to use, then I will go with [Algos-Vexor-Myrmidon-Dominix].

@Silvetica Dian
Surely I will do anomaly and other stuffs later...


The only problem with drones in PvP -- particularly drone ships that drop gardes (they're stationary little things that shoot a long ways) -- is that a lot of the PvP in EVE is roving 'gang' stuff, and the leaders of these groups often (though not always) want to move very quickly from waypoint to waypoint because they've gotten word of an enemy force. This renders drone-heavy ships in this style of PvP problematic due to the fact that you need to deploy and then pick up after yourself every time there's some chance of engagement... which makes it very difficult to keep up.

Again, it's not ALWAYS an issue, but it is something to think about.


But there are rails&blasters right?
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