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What do you think of the AC & arty changes?
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Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#1 - 2015-01-21 20:17:32 UTC
Quote:
All small artillery will be receiving:
+10% damage multiplier
-3% tracking speed


so buff to RFF and Thrasher/Sabre

Quote:
All autocannons will receive +7.5% falloff
Barrage ammo will provide a +40% falloff bonus instead of +50%


buff to Rifter.

Together with the changes for small lasers it seems there's an effort to make scram kiting (don't get pedantic with me) the fighting style of choice. It would be nice if some of the ships that are already way OP could get a speed nerf to bring some much needed balance. As things are looking now, Comet and RFF will be the only viable T1 frigs and that sucks.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#2 - 2015-01-21 20:41:11 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
Quote:
All small artillery will be receiving:
+10% damage multiplier
-3% tracking speed


so buff to RFF and Thrasher/Sabre

Quote:
All autocannons will receive +7.5% falloff
Barrage ammo will provide a +40% falloff bonus instead of +50%


buff to Rifter.

Together with the changes for small lasers it seems there's an effort to make scram kiting (don't get pedantic with me) the fighting style of choice. It would be nice if some of the ships that are already way OP could get a speed nerf to bring some much needed balance. As things are looking now, Comet and RFF will be the only viable T1 frigs and that sucks.


Arty were ok to begin with. They could use some help with fitting, but the changes are nice i guess. However they were uneeded.


AC's

They need so much more love than 7.5% base falloff increase. This is not going to fix Medium AC's or small AC's. At the end of they day, they do such little damage up close- and are anemic at range. Please don't try and hit me with 'selectable damage' as a huge pro. Because that is just simply not the case when you are kiting with AC's. These paltry changes (even on falloff boats like the stabber / vaga / cyna) Are still not going to make up for the fact that they have anemic DPS at 24+K and because of that are forced to use barrage. The barrage changes are not helping the matter, if range / dps is staying similar. While a step in the right direction, WAY more needs to be done in order to address Small and medium AC's. The only thing this change will have, is give Large AC's (Tornado and particularly the Mach) A slight boost.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-01-21 22:43:48 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
Comet and RFF will be the only viable T1 frigs and that sucks.



i really don't see why
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-01-22 01:09:05 UTC
its like theyre trying to reverse the TE but for projectiles only!

Art of Explosions
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#5 - 2015-01-22 02:31:11 UTC
dang i just realized the AC changes are to all sizes. derp! But yeah on cruisers AC seem to be more suited for anti-frig and anti-dessie work
Trey Kutoi
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2015-01-22 05:01:13 UTC
just going to say, that right now. scramkiting in a kestrel is in a pretty crappy place. other minmatar ships, namely rifters and slashers are the only things that I can reliably out dps with my **** skills, so they're in an even worse spot.

I don't appreciate losing my only source of prey, but I won't deny they need it
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2015-01-22 05:43:31 UTC
Small artillery has very few platforms that it can be successfully placed on. Take the Jaguar as an example. With an optimal bonus it's obviously designed for artillery. With 43 PG and 170 CPU before skills it struggles with fitting. Three 280's and a MWD eat almost all of it's power grid. To fit any kind of tank you will probably need at least two fitting mods, ignore the utility high, and still be unable to fit the neccesary gyros and tracking enhancers to be viable.

With only three turrets it can't compete with other AF. Even though the Jag has a 4-4-4 slot layout it's armor is much less then it's shields - preventing an effective active armor tank. Contributing to that is the ship having the same capacitor as the Rifter.

Lastly - rails have so much flexibility that they are a much better choice. A rail cat has replaced my arty thrasher. And a rail Enyo with four turrets, optimal, tracking, double damage bonuses and a more generous fitting grid - simply blows the Jaguar away.
Futt Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-01-22 11:46:13 UTC
Unfortunately this seems to be like the ishtar buff - small, insignificant and a sign that no further change will happen for a while.

CCPlease.
Varrinox
Shadows of the Empire
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#9 - 2015-01-22 11:49:37 UTC
I think the arty change was not needed, arty already has great alpha and considering all the things arty have going for them they didn't need a buff. Arty thrasher is going to become something paintful.

As for the AC buff, I think the 7.5% falloff is a good change, they should not have reduced barrage at the same time though.

Overall I think its a good change that will greatly help ships like the rifter and firetail which were in need of some love.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#10 - 2015-01-22 14:41:24 UTC
Medium ACs will still suck

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Shelom Severasse
The Disney World Federation
Fraternity.
#11 - 2015-01-22 18:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Shelom Severasse
Plato Forko wrote:
Quote:
All small artillery will be receiving:
+10% damage multiplier
-3% tracking speed


so buff to RFF and Thrasher/Sabre

Quote:
All autocannons will receive +7.5% falloff
Barrage ammo will provide a +40% falloff bonus instead of +50%


buff to Rifter.

Together with the changes for small lasers it seems there's an effort to make scram kiting (don't get pedantic with me) the fighting style of choice. It would be nice if some of the ships that are already way OP could get a speed nerf to bring some much needed balance. As things are looking now, Comet and RFF will be the only viable T1 frigs and that sucks.

idt arty needed the buff.

ACs imo will always be crap compared to other weapon systems. thats not to say they cant be effective, i just prefer other weapons. imo, their problem stems from their inherently low optimal. an increase to falloff wont help them (much), but an increase to optimal will.

EDIT: i realize that the massive falloff and barely any optimal is the minmatar racial flavor, but, well, thats a crappy latent "ability"
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#12 - 2015-01-22 18:45:44 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Plato Forko wrote:
Quote:
All small artillery will be receiving:
+10% damage multiplier
-3% tracking speed


so buff to RFF and Thrasher/Sabre

Quote:
All autocannons will receive +7.5% falloff
Barrage ammo will provide a +40% falloff bonus instead of +50%


buff to Rifter.

Together with the changes for small lasers it seems there's an effort to make scram kiting (don't get pedantic with me) the fighting style of choice. It would be nice if some of the ships that are already way OP could get a speed nerf to bring some much needed balance. As things are looking now, Comet and RFF will be the only viable T1 frigs and that sucks.


Arty were ok to begin with. They could use some help with fitting, but the changes are nice i guess. However they were uneeded.


AC's

They need so much more love than 7.5% base falloff increase. This is not going to fix Medium AC's or small AC's. At the end of they day, they do such little damage up close- and are anemic at range. Please don't try and hit me with 'selectable damage' as a huge pro. Because that is just simply not the case when you are kiting with AC's. These paltry changes (even on falloff boats like the stabber / vaga / cyna) Are still not going to make up for the fact that they have anemic DPS at 24+K and because of that are forced to use barrage. The barrage changes are not helping the matter, if range / dps is staying similar. While a step in the right direction, WAY more needs to be done in order to address Small and medium AC's. The only thing this change will have, is give Large AC's (Tornado and particularly the Mach) A slight boost.


As long as ACs remain so heavily dependent on falloff and T1 ammo remains entirely optimal-oriented, ACs will suffer. I think the most straightforward solution to "fixing" ACs is to change projectile ammo to have bonuses/penalties to falloff instead of optimal.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-01-23 16:23:02 UTC
edit: gah, ****. wrong thread lol.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#14 - 2015-01-26 12:23:14 UTC
Rails are really good, beams just became pretty awesome, artillery got slightly less crappy. Yay.

Nothing that justifies not flying something with LMLs instead.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#15 - 2015-01-26 16:49:58 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Rails are really good, beams just became pretty awesome, artillery got slightly less crappy. Yay.

Nothing that justifies not flying something with LMLs instead.


1. Brawl fits suck with LMLs for the most part
2. Counter-Kite fits generally work better with a higher DPS weapon system than LMLs
3. Scram-Kite fits generally work better with a higher DPS weapons system than LMLs
4. other stuff

JUSTK is recruiting
Chesterfield Fancypantz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2015-01-29 19:49:12 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Rails are really good, beams just became pretty awesome, artillery got slightly less crappy. Yay.

Nothing that justifies not flying something with LMLs instead.


1. Brawl fits suck with LMLs for the most part
2. Counter-Kite fits generally work better with a higher DPS weapon system than LMLs
3. Scram-Kite fits generally work better with a higher DPS weapons system than LMLs
4. other stuff


Only thing R/LMLs are good for right now is the smallgang kite.

Couple orthros picking apart noob fleets etc.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#17 - 2015-02-05 22:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
Plato Forko wrote:
Quote:
All small artillery will be receiving:
+10% damage multiplier
-3% tracking speed


so buff to RFF and Thrasher/Sabre

Quote:
All autocannons will receive +7.5% falloff
Barrage ammo will provide a +40% falloff bonus instead of +50%


buff to Rifter.

Together with the changes for small lasers it seems there's an effort to make scram kiting (don't get pedantic with me) the fighting style of choice. It would be nice if some of the ships that are already way OP could get a speed nerf to bring some much needed balance. As things are looking now, Comet and RFF will be the only viable T1 frigs and that sucks.


My hookbill disagrees with you.

However, I agree that ACs need more. Barrage should have stayed the same, I'd buff ROF by about 10% as well. They are "autocannons" after all.

Arty didn't change the way it needed to, fitting requirements.
Mr Spaxi
#18 - 2015-02-06 00:50:14 UTC
I think the 10% damage buff on arties is well placed; it's either that or reduce fitting requirements. If they reduced fitting requirements, it would make easier to fit high alpha - high tanked ships, which can be very effective in fleets and would possibly make those fleet compositions superior in an unfair way. Like this, you get a damage increase but your tank remains the same, which is a very decent buff itself. It's more of a buff to Destroyers than Frigates, but it works.
Arla Sarain
#19 - 2015-02-06 08:57:31 UTC
Mr Spaxi wrote:
can be very effective in fleets and would possibly make those fleet compositions

Such consideration is given to Artillery, but not to sentries, which can be assisted and will all fire at the same time.
Oh look another drone thread.
Mr Spaxi
#20 - 2015-02-06 17:07:29 UTC
Well, this is a topic about projectile weapon changes, isn't it?
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