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An Explanation for Tech Levels

Author
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1 - 2015-01-21 18:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
This is my understanding of the "levels" as they stand now:



Tech I:
Standard, human-grade tech, pilotable and used by normal humans and capsuleers alike. Ships require standard crew, reduced in capsuleer-piloted vessels, and modules are standard.

Tech II:
Tech developed specifically for capsuleer use, unable to be piloted without the use of a capsule. Ships have vastly reduced crew, even compared to Tech I capsuleer-controlled vessels, and modules require an advanced understanding of workings (also likely unusable by non-capsuleers: see NPC loot drops)

Tech III:
Developed through research on Sleeper/Architect and other ancient New Eden races' technology. Only compatible with capsuleers; ships require no crew whatsoever, save for the capsule pilot, and Tech III subsystems require new, specific knowledge of their workings.

Tech IV:
Terran-level tech from the era of the EVE Gate's collapse. The only modern example of their power is Jamyl Sarum's usage of an ancient Terran weapon found near the Gate on the Minmatar Elder fleet during the events of Empyrean Age. Suggests that shields were a liability on Terran vessels, considering the ability of the weapon to invert the shields' polarity and wreak havoc. No ships constructed from researched tech have been developed, and Sarum's modified Abaddon was destroyed in the events leading to the Seylin Event. (Additionally, there is a tech IV icon like the ones seen for I, II and III in the game files)

Tech V:
Modern Jovian technology, the culmination of millennia of research and development. Only known example was the 'Nibelung' Particle Bore Stream V, given to a player by t0rfifrans years ago. Jovian tech is highly sophisticated and well-hidden. Future events may reveal more.



Now, you may say "but the Terrans have the strongest tech!"

Well, look at the Amarr timeline to begin to understand what I mean.

The Terran tech we have seen used can from no time after the collapse of the EVE gate, in 8061 AD. This means that Terran tech in New Eden was the result of developments spanning 6000 years, and cannot have been any newer due to the gate's cutoff.

On the other hand, looking at Jovian "Tech V", there has been a significantly longer time during which development could be made. As the Jovians never regressed following the Gate's collapse, they have had (looking at the timeline again) over 15000 years to improvise and develop technology: more than twice the length of Terran tech's period, and even going so far as to have used Terran tech as a springboard.

One more thing to consider: Sleeper tech has had just as long as long a time to develop as the Jovians have, if not longer due to their ability to control time dilation in the Virtual Construct. However, the Sleepers have historically focused more on the virtual world than the "real" world, and contain themselves within it for the most part, leaving their renowned drones (from which we get Tech III) to defend them.

Anyhow, this is just to explain things to people and myself. Enjoy Smile
VTyx Soul
Station Window Lickers
#2 - 2015-01-22 09:56:02 UTC
Well the I remember GMs did state back in 2003stating that the 'Nibelung' Particle Bore Stream V was not Jovian tech. it was something else, I think it was an npc ship also.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#3 - 2015-01-22 16:40:15 UTC
I would like to know which sources you used, particularly for the TIII crew requirements. For me, this is not very useful without references to sources.
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#4 - 2015-01-22 23:27:53 UTC
I think you have Jovian and terran swapped. Terran tech is stronger than Jove as far as I know, the terrans were eons ahead of us, including the Jovians.

Event Organizer of EVE North East

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#5 - 2015-01-22 23:45:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
ExookiZ wrote:
I think you have Jovian and terran swapped. Terran tech is stronger than Jove as far as I know, the terrans were eons ahead of us, including the Jovians.

I only say it like I did because the terran tech we have seen was from when the eve gate collapsed in 8061 AD.

From now to then is a little over 6000 years, so the terrans had 6000 years to develop tech.

From the time the EVE gate closed (8061 AD) to now (~23341 AD) is over 15000 years.

The Jovians also had the Terran tech to spring from, as they never regressed after the Gate's collapse (though they were, at the time, the least advanced group).

So it stands as such:

Terran tech:
~6000 years of development

Jovian Tech:
~15000 years of development

We haven't seen enough of either type of tech to make a call, but I think it's safe to assume that the Jovians have tech that is more advanced that the tech the Terrans had, at least on some levels.

EDIT: source for the timeline: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr_timeline
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#6 - 2015-01-22 23:48:00 UTC
VTyx Soul wrote:
Well the I remember GMs did state back in 2003stating that the 'Nibelung' Particle Bore Stream V was not Jovian tech. it was something else, I think it was an npc ship also.

I'll have to look for the statement, but I know for sure that it was given to a player (I think it was TomB) by t0rfifrans, a DEV masquerading as a Jovian (now CCP T0rfifrans)
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2015-01-29 16:37:52 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
ExookiZ wrote:
I think you have Jovian and terran swapped. Terran tech is stronger than Jove as far as I know, the terrans were eons ahead of us, including the Jovians.

I only say it like I did because the terran tech we have seen was from when the eve gate collapsed in 8061 AD.

From now to then is a little over 6000 years, so the terrans had 6000 years to develop tech.

From the time the EVE gate closed (8061 AD) to now (~23341 AD) is over 15000 years.

The Jovians also had the Terran tech to spring from, as they never regressed after the Gate's collapse (though they were, at the time, the least advanced group).

So it stands as such:

Terran tech:
~6000 years of development

Jovian Tech:
~15000 years of development

We haven't seen enough of either type of tech to make a call, but I think it's safe to assume that the Jovians have tech that is more advanced that the tech the Terrans had, at least on some levels.

EDIT: source for the timeline: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr_timeline

I agree with you...
but

Potential Terran tech TODAY...equal or better than Jovian tech
I wonder if we ever see that.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Davey Talvanen
Kingsparrow Wormhole Division
Birds of Prey.
#8 - 2015-02-17 23:16:09 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
ExookiZ wrote:
I think you have Jovian and terran swapped. Terran tech is stronger than Jove as far as I know, the terrans were eons ahead of us, including the Jovians.


Terran tech is OP because of the fact that terrans were super-developed at the colapse (to the point where our empires havent caught up) but the jovians had terran tech about 15000 years ago, maybe a few advancements ?



Fixed quoting. ISD Ezwal.
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2015-02-18 09:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arline Kley
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Now, you may say "but the Terrans have the strongest tech!"


Thats because it is.

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
On the other hand, looking at Jovian "Tech V", there has been a significantly longer time during which development could be made. As the Jovians never regressed following the Gate's collapse, they have had (looking at the timeline again) over 15000 years to improvise and develop technology: more than twice the length of Terran tech's period, and even going so far as to have used Terran tech as a springboard.


Bit of an error there - the Jovians were just as badly affected as every other race, initially, but as they are on the opposite side of the galaxy (almost) they where less impacted by it than the other races. They have also had lots of rises and falls during that 15,000 years, so much of their technological prowess would have regressed as well. For example, the Jovians today are not a spit on the First Golden Age of Jovian tech.

Terran Tech is still, even after all this time, superior to practically everything in New Eden, It is why the Jovians went to the trouble of hiding it all in the first place - they didn't want the Empires playing with something that they didn't understand, not just the Empires being too behind for them.

It is when the Empress got the Terran Superweapon - while every other nation was going "OMGWTFBBQ" at what she pulled out, the Jove simply asked "Where did you find that?"

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57

Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-02-18 17:39:21 UTC
Last I checked, if you try to undock a T3 with a missing subsystem, the game tells you doing so would kill the crew...

Artenso Vestindal
Institute of Tax Optimalization
#11 - 2015-02-19 01:21:51 UTC
after reading a bit of lore about Jove history (in few pages of Source aviable here ), Jove were severly crippled by fall of first empire, even more so after fall of second empire and current Jove have just a little bit of tech and knowledge of past Jove. So yeah, Terran tech > Jove tech.
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-02-19 12:41:37 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Now, you may say "but the Terrans have the strongest tech!"


Thats because it is.

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
On the other hand, looking at Jovian "Tech V", there has been a significantly longer time during which development could be made. As the Jovians never regressed following the Gate's collapse, they have had (looking at the timeline again) over 15000 years to improvise and develop technology: more than twice the length of Terran tech's period, and even going so far as to have used Terran tech as a springboard.


Bit of an error there - the Jovians were just as badly affected as every other race, initially, but as they are on the opposite side of the galaxy (almost) they where less impacted by it than the other races. They have also had lots of rises and falls during that 15,000 years, so much of their technological prowess would have regressed as well. For example, the Jovians today are not a spit on the First Golden Age of Jovian tech.

Terran Tech is still, even after all this time, superior to practically everything in New Eden, It is why the Jovians went to the trouble of hiding it all in the first place - they didn't want the Empires playing with something that they didn't understand, not just the Empires being too behind for them.

It is when the Empress got the Terran Superweapon - while every other nation was going "OMGWTFBBQ" at what she pulled out, the Jove simply asked "Where did you find that?"


Think not, and would have to agree with Uriel on this one.
The Jove went to all that effort (in theory) to hide Terran weaponry, not because they thought it was overpowered but because it would be like handing a child an automatic rifle. Terran technology was and probably still is far superior to Empire technology so any Empire getting their hands on it would probably go on a rampage and even attack Jove space in their hubris thinking "we gotz big shticks lel", thus plunging the whole New Eden in chaos.

Like Uriel said the Jove have had considerable more time to springboard their technology from Terran technology, and also although somewhat affected by the EVE gate collapse (doubtfully as they were in transit to their colonies and sleeping sound and safe inside the Construct) they did not undergo the long "dark ages" that the Empires did.
Basically, any advanced Jove tech today is Terran +1 level. It's only logical.
While the Amarr (for example) were trying to figure out how to get a dog in space again, the Jove still had access to Terran tech and it stands to reason that with time they improved on it.

Also the fact that the Jove underwent so many empire-collapses does not automatically imply they become magically oblivious to the technology of the previous Jove empires (that would be stupid to say the least).

Fornicate The Constabulary !

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#13 - 2015-03-12 22:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Tech 1 is military grade tech.

IRL, I'm not licensed to operate either a forklift or an Apache black ops helicopter. I could mostly figure out the forklift and could get certified in a week if I wanted, but the helicopter is high-grade military tech that would take years of training.

Tech 1 is more in line with the Apache, and 'Civilian' modules more in line with the forklift. A non-capsuleer can train to use it, but they need to dedicate a significant part of their life to doing so.

Tech 2, OTOH, is as you said - beyond non-capsuleer use. Which makes me wonder - is this why the Empires ban interdictor/HIC bubbles in lowsec, because only T2 ships can launch them?

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Tykari
The Observatory
#14 - 2015-03-13 16:10:40 UTC
Nami Kumamato wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Now, you may say "but the Terrans have the strongest tech!"


Thats because it is.

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
On the other hand, looking at Jovian "Tech V", there has been a significantly longer time during which development could be made. As the Jovians never regressed following the Gate's collapse, they have had (looking at the timeline again) over 15000 years to improvise and develop technology: more than twice the length of Terran tech's period, and even going so far as to have used Terran tech as a springboard.


Bit of an error there - the Jovians were just as badly affected as every other race, initially, but as they are on the opposite side of the galaxy (almost) they where less impacted by it than the other races. They have also had lots of rises and falls during that 15,000 years, so much of their technological prowess would have regressed as well. For example, the Jovians today are not a spit on the First Golden Age of Jovian tech.

Terran Tech is still, even after all this time, superior to practically everything in New Eden, It is why the Jovians went to the trouble of hiding it all in the first place - they didn't want the Empires playing with something that they didn't understand, not just the Empires being too behind for them.

It is when the Empress got the Terran Superweapon - while every other nation was going "OMGWTFBBQ" at what she pulled out, the Jove simply asked "Where did you find that?"


Think not, and would have to agree with Uriel on this one.
The Jove went to all that effort (in theory) to hide Terran weaponry, not because they thought it was overpowered but because it would be like handing a child an automatic rifle. Terran technology was and probably still is far superior to Empire technology so any Empire getting their hands on it would probably go on a rampage and even attack Jove space in their hubris thinking "we gotz big shticks lel", thus plunging the whole New Eden in chaos.

Like Uriel said the Jove have had considerable more time to springboard their technology from Terran technology, and also although somewhat affected by the EVE gate collapse (doubtfully as they were in transit to their colonies and sleeping sound and safe inside the Construct) they did not undergo the long "dark ages" that the Empires did.
Basically, any advanced Jove tech today is Terran +1 level. It's only logical.
While the Amarr (for example) were trying to figure out how to get a dog in space again, the Jove still had access to Terran tech and it stands to reason that with time they improved on it.

Also the fact that the Jove underwent so many empire-collapses does not automatically imply they become magically oblivious to the technology of the previous Jove empires (that would be stupid to say the least).


Well it kind of depends. The Jovians during the time of the collapse were basicly part of the lowest rung of civilisation back then, which is why they had ships were the crew had to go into stasis for the journey to their colony, because they didn't have access to all the good stuff because the people in charge of Terran society were strictly regulating who got what. This did save them because it meant they had to be virtually self reliant while some of the other colonies were getting free hand outs from Earth when they needed it, which became a huge problem once the EVE gate collapsed.

So yes the Jove had access to Terran tech, and their colonisation ship containing enough resources to build their first stargate. But they still had a way to go to get to the level of the upper echelons of Terran society. So depending on how much knowledge they gained and lost between the rise and fall of their Empires, they may be more or less advanced now. It's probably a safe bet to assume that they are more advanced, but considering our limited information.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-03-13 16:26:53 UTC
I request sustained effort in developing at least less medieval tracking computers before hiring a long-bowman to lead target point my rails the old fashioned way. Don't care how fast it moves it's still an at least a 30m radius sphere.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato