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CSM9 Winter Summit minutes

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Author
Valterra Craven
#81 - 2015-01-22 21:17:23 UTC
I'd really like it if chat channels had some kind of sound notification of new messages.

So for example, have the sound team create 3-4 chimes and let us chose which channel we want which chime to play on, (if we want chimes to play at all)
Harry Saq
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#82 - 2015-01-22 21:44:03 UTC
"He [CCP TomB] noted that the NPC creation system had essentially not been changed since EVE has started. However now a new template system has been created streamlining the process considerably. This allows a game designer to select a ship "hull" and fit it with pre-made attribute sets."

Going with the whole "dynamic world based" idea over instance type model, wouldn't it make more sense for NPC creation and mechanics to be the exact same as fitting a player ship, where random utility slots could produce variations according to the NPC type, but still using real word modules (and whatever is fitted drops as though it were a PvP kill)?

The remaining attributes to fill out would be the blackboard behaviors mentioned earlier, defining how they behave and organize to do stuffs. Blackboard - A blackboard is a way for them to share their intentions with each other. They have a shared blackboard where if one of the NPCs posts a location or primary target, they will behave like a well organised fleet following their FCs commands.

Once tweaked, the "blackboard" modeling of NPCs can reduce the numbers required for them to be effective and could eliminate the bloat and oddity of killing cores and scores of red crosses in a mining like fashion. Bounties could be raised and NPC farming can more closely simulate normal PvP and create dynamic content at the same time. Might as well even have them have to hold sov like we do, and attack and defend in a similar fashion...talk about dynamic content ;)

They could have to mine and defend against those pod pilot rats that keep trying to kill their miners etc etc etc...just sayin...
Harry Saq
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#83 - 2015-01-22 21:47:59 UTC
...forgot to mention this as part of the above logic:

"CCP Affinity brought up that no game has really been able to create enough content to keep players engaged over a very long period of time. CCP Frellicus also added that with a new mission system they would look more at being able to generate
constant, dynamic world content rather than just static missions."
Harry Saq
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#84 - 2015-01-22 21:50:21 UTC
...oh yeah, and this:

"CCP Affinity asked the CSM to let them know if they had ideas to try out with the new behaviour trees. Corbexx brought up them speaking in local. Sugar Kyle brought up random small events going on in the world, such as NPC pirates fighting NPC faction police in locations."

My earlier post in regards to the Blackboard would fall into the behavior trees as well...
Harry Saq
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#85 - 2015-01-22 22:34:22 UTC
"CCP Arrow talked about how the controls for your ship are next in line to be worked on by the team."

oohh....Please see this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386471
Sky Cloud Austrene
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2015-01-22 22:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky Cloud Austrene
Here's something that should of been talked about with Team Pirate Unicorns concerning the New Player Experience & retention of these players;
The fact that many of these players are getting frustrated, with what content is offered to them & how they can achieve a sustainable source of income.
Once players get past the tutorial missions & progress to low level missions they soon find:
* the rewards they can receive from completing these missions are hopelessly out dated in comparison to modern day market prices. They might of been fine when EVE first started, but they are pathetic by today's market standards.
* New Players get frustrated from having to go through numerous repetitions of running the same set of missions for a agent over and over again whilst trying to make isk. Even if they do decide, to go to another high sec region and try missions for a different agent of the same type, they find that there is still little to no difference in the storyline, the objectives &/or the rewards on offer to complete the missions.
This creates a barrier for some, who don't want wait for their skills to improve sufficently to a point where they feel comfortable with moving out of empire to either low sec or nul sec where the rewards from missions & anoms are much, much better.
So in the end they get bored & frustrated with EvE fast & end up leaving.

There has to be a way to improve & make the missions each agent offers, more unique & immersive, as well as improving the rewards on offer for missions, so these players don't feel like they are wasting their time and getting nowhere fast.

A new story line mission idea, that might help in opening their eyes to what's possible, could be something like;
For a 72hr time period;
The NPE finds they have been somehow conscripted into an empire navy, they see short video of their ship being magically titan bridged to a non player accessible area of low or nul sec, where they see themselves docking at a station & they are given a number of prefitted ships together with the skills to fly them. They receive a list of objectives from an NPC FC, that they must attempt to complete, the idea behind the tasks is to show off what's on offer in this type of space, as they patrol it. ideally it should show them the difference in risk vs reward from empire thru to nul sec & also serve as a kind of tutorial for fleet op's.
It could also give NPE's chance to actually see a variety of ships like; frigates thru to Battleships, Carriers, Rorqual's, Super's & Titans in an ingame enviroment, that, they might not otherwise get to see, if they up & quit EvE.

Hopefully more dynamic missions in conjunction with a rebalance of mission rewards, could serve as a possible means of an improved source of income & provide them with inspiration & drive, to set lofty goals of being apart of the low / nul sec communities, should they choose to do so. Whereby they could someday obtain & fly their own copy of the ships they saw out there in their mission.
Harry Saq
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#87 - 2015-01-22 23:26:57 UTC
"Sion then talked about something along the lines of a rotating corporate task list that players could complete and get a reward. CCP Rise liked the idea and had previously been talking about stuff and had been thinking of the opportunities for corporations to use this tracking system to organize themselves and reward their players."

OMG this all day, yes, this would help greatly getting corp stuff done!!! One could argue that contracts can do this, but they are a PETA and having a dedicated task list has so much more potential.
Kage S3kkou
State War Academy
Caldari State
#88 - 2015-01-23 00:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kage S3kkou
Wormholes
Quote:
Sugar Kyle brought up that there are wormholes spawning in tutorial systems, and new players are
entering them and getting lost in wormhole space. CCP Bettik replied that it's something they can
definitely adjust. There was also some discussion on adding it to the scanning tutorial in some way.


Please do so, it isn't just new players that need it, there is allot of older players as well that would benefit from it too.


UI Modernization Project
For the love of God, please increase the maximum number of ship fittings in the fitting management window.
Also please, increase the maximum number of in game mails that you can trash/delete at a single time.


Customer Support
I think its pretty obvious, that the whole petition, ticket system needs to be better explained to players & expanded on.
Often players are confused about what catergory there problem should be filed under & they file under the wrong option.
It not only leads to delays in the player getting a response from the GM, but also has to frustrate the GM's as well.
Please expand the support ticket window and give it the ability to create/insert a link.
Sometimes a screen shot speaks a thousand words, if the player just happened to be frapsing at time, a short replay of what happened as seen by the player, could be handy.

Thanks.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#89 - 2015-01-23 02:58:42 UTC
I can't help thinking part of the disconnect is the constant referral to 10,000 foot view user statistics. How often do devs have to start new characters to experience everything over again? Sure, most of a dev's energy is devoted to dev work, rather than playing for the countless hours like the player base, but shouldn't there be more of an emphasis on repeated, first-hand NPE experience rather than trying to balance by broad statistics (that aren't really indicative of a specific player story)?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#90 - 2015-01-23 03:03:36 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I can't help thinking part of the disconnect is the constant referral to 10,000 foot view user statistics. How often do devs have to start new characters to experience everything over again? Sure, most of a dev's energy is devoted to dev work, rather than playing for the countless hours like the player base, but shouldn't there be more of an emphasis on repeated, first-hand NPE experience rather than trying to balance by broad statistics (that aren't really indicative of a specific player story)?



They do also do user testing. Generally not with CCP devs, as a dev is the worst person to test their own code (as they know how it works).

Testing with gamers, who haven't played eve before.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2015-01-23 04:53:46 UTC
There's no shortage of frustration for me, especially having done things several times, so I hope that's not a no. I don't know how to argue against "there's a stat for that," when a player story is the most important thing.
Irenia Tsurpalen
Special Assault Unit
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2015-01-23 10:20:52 UTC
Quote:
Ali Aras asked what the numbers look like for people using wormholes between k-space, and there has also been an increase. Xander asked whether there were numbers on people using wormholes for transit versus those completing content in wormholes
Would love to see those numbers Roll How many W-Space residents we currently have? :)
XeX Znndstrup
#93 - 2015-01-23 12:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: XeX Znndstrup
Dear CCP, dear CSM,

You spoke about "social clubs" or "societies" page 17.

Simplier, i would suggest to speak about Organizations.
We have players or non players corporations or alliances.

There are non players organizations (SOE for example) but no players organizations.
They would allow to gather players who have a same objective without breaking their freedom to be in a corporation or to be solo.

And we would use like this a concept that already exists in Eve but not available for players.

Why shouldn't we be able to build a SOE type organization in game ?

Good summit and best regards.

Judge of The Law Organization and President of Stellar Order.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light". John Milton, Lost Paradise.

@ /// f

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-01-23 14:31:12 UTC
XeX Znndstrup wrote:
Dear CCP, dear CSM,

You spoke about "social clubs" or "societies" page 17.

Simplier, i would suggest to speak about Organizations.
We have players or non players corporations or alliances.

There are non players organizations (SOE for example) but no players organizations.
They would allow to gather players who have a same objective without breaking their freedom to be in a corporation or to be solo.

And we would use like this a concept that already exists in Eve but not available for players.

Why shouldn't we be able to build a SOE type organization in game ?

Good summit and best regards.



That IS what the societies are. Player made groupings and tools to facilitate them.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#95 - 2015-01-23 14:31:45 UTC
XeX Znndstrup wrote:
Dear CCP, dear CSM,

You spoke about "social clubs" or "societies" page 17.

Simplier, i would suggest to speak about Organizations.
We have players or non players corporations or alliances.

There are non players organizations (SOE for example) but no players organizations.
They would allow to gather players who have a same objective without breaking their freedom to be in a corporation or to be solo.

And we would use like this a concept that already exists in Eve but not available for players.

Why shouldn't we be able to build a SOE type organization in game ?

Good summit and best regards.



Can you explain the difference you see, between what you're suggesting, and the 'social clubs' that have been talked about?

The idea has always been that they're for organisation of players, across corporation lines. Like RVB Ganked, Spectre Fleet, and so on.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

XeX Znndstrup
#96 - 2015-01-23 15:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: XeX Znndstrup
Dear Mike, dear Steve,

I agree that what you proposed as "social clubs" or "societies" correspond to what i call "Organizations".

I was just suggesting not to use another name for something that already exists in game but for NP only.
Eve is enough complicated so that we shouldn't use another word.
Moreover, today, the "Corporations, Alliances & Organizations discussions" forum is forbidden for non alliance/corporation members. If we give the name "Organizations" to what you call "societies" or "social clubs", i see no reason not to open it now.
We should call a spade a spade.

Best regards and thanks for your work.

Judge of The Law Organization and President of Stellar Order.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light". John Milton, Lost Paradise.

@ /// f

Martin Corwin
Doomheim
#97 - 2015-01-23 16:09:58 UTC
\o/ hooray for raw text on phones.
Noriko Mai
#98 - 2015-01-23 17:13:26 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
XeX Znndstrup wrote:
Dear CCP, dear CSM,

You spoke about "social clubs" or "societies" page 17.

Simplier, i would suggest to speak about Organizations.
We have players or non players corporations or alliances.

There are non players organizations (SOE for example) but no players organizations.
They would allow to gather players who have a same objective without breaking their freedom to be in a corporation or to be solo.

And we would use like this a concept that already exists in Eve but not available for players.

Why shouldn't we be able to build a SOE type organization in game ?

Good summit and best regards.



Can you explain the difference you see, between what you're suggesting, and the 'social clubs' that have been talked about?

The idea has always been that they're for organisation of players, across corporation lines. Like RVB Ganked, Spectre Fleet, and so on.

I think he just wants to say that Organisations is a better term than societies or social clubs.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Circumstantial Evidence
#99 - 2015-01-23 18:29:21 UTC
The word "society" might make some folks think of "high society," a place where tea and cakes are served at noon, and everyone has to wear nice clothes. Words like "club, group, organization" don't carry that possible connotation.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#100 - 2015-01-23 19:07:17 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
The word "society" might make some folks think of "high society," a place where tea and cakes are served at noon, and everyone has to wear nice clothes. Words like "club, group, organization" don't carry that possible connotation.

But the name does offer up the potential for "secret societies" no cake there, cake is a lie.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE