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Battleships, and their use

First post
Author
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#161 - 2015-01-24 07:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Sean Parisi
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion


Megatharon had void loaded in his guns. Just something worth noting...


*Note: The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion* Missed that when I said my snarky comment.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2015-01-24 09:16:59 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion


Need to learn the web trick.

Also you had no neut.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2015-01-24 10:23:01 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion


Need to learn the web trick.

Also you had no neut.


Which web trick> I want to learn!

I just wanted to show people that kept going on about how the mega would smack frigs around, blah blah, that they did not know what they were talking about.
RonPaul Rox
Stribog Proving
Stribog Clade
#164 - 2015-01-24 12:06:25 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You will not be able to do anything without cap, any properly fit PVP BS will have at least one neut fit. You will be capped out in a few seconds and then the BS will kill you.


Ok and ships like the Apoc, Abaddon and Mega that only have enough highs for guns, you gonna lose a gun to fit a neut just to make it not helpless to the most common ship in the game?

You really don't see me point?


neuts can be put in turret slots

if u bring out a BS solo without a neut u deserve to lose it

http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#165 - 2015-01-24 12:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion


Neutrons wont hit it you need electrons to stand any chance. The ishkur in question was sporting an AB so your turrets could not have hit it in any case, a megathron lacks the utility highs to solo effectively which is why the hype is always advised.

Honestly if you want to have the easiest time in dealing with frigates then you want the likes of the raven, scorpion and typhoon hulls. If you have the cash then the rattle is very deadly for is pricerange.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2015-01-24 12:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Amanda Guido wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion


Need to learn the web trick.

Also you had no neut.


Which web trick> I want to learn!

I just wanted to show people that kept going on about how the mega would smack frigs around, blah blah, that they did not know what they were talking about.


Mega will ruin a frigs day if prepared for it

You, my friend, were not.

Web trick is as follows and depends on a couple of things:

1. Example frigate is using the game's automatic orbit at x00m function
2. You have a scram and at least one web
3. You have a neut <=====================


Basically the way the game calculates your orbit around a ship depends on a few things: agility, max velocity and what you set your orbit to.

If you have really good agility, you will be able to make tighter turns and therefore able to orbit very close and at your maximum velocity. If you have a very high max velocity compared to your agility (for example with a mwd on) then the speed you set to orbit at takes precedence and your orbit range will increase or decrease to match your desired speed<======THIS IS WHAT WE EXPLOIT.

So you have frig orbiting you with an AB on, most don't have the agility to do that at 500m at max velocity so it's more likely going to be orbiting at like 1000 or 2000 depending on how fat it is. As soon as a WEB is applied, it's max velocity is reduced by x%, the game suddenly goes "hey we can now orbit closer since our lower speed allows for it" and thus the frigate will often fly DIRECTLY AT YOU to establish the new orbit.

You use this opportunity to smash a few good ones in it's face, I have seen frigates literally being alphaed by medium/large guns at this point. However if it's not dead yet, funnily enough the opposite applies....

When you RELEASE the web, the game then sees your new max velocity and has to adjust to it, the resulting effect is that the newly unwebbed ship flies DIRECTLY AWAY FROM YOU to establish new orbit.

While doing this you should be attempting to fly away from it with prop mod on to neutralise as much trasnversal as possible.

Now due to the few conditions I set above, this won't always work. Interceptors are rarely automatically piloted so unlikely to ever hit a good one.

The scram is required because without it your target is still going to fly at 1km/s while webbed.

The web is required cause....

The neut is required to shut down afterburners, active reps etc. It's just an all-round anti frigate module for battleships.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#167 - 2015-01-24 13:06:45 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion

An anecdote does not evidence make. This is a situation where a frigate got under your guns, this doesn't mean that a frigate will always beat a battleship flown by everyone.

Some observations:

1. You had no neut fitted. This means that the frigate could do all the things that make frigates hard for battleships to kill. Things like run their AB, web you, scram you, etc. Cap is life and heavy neuts are death to frigates.
2. You were double plated. This means that even if your target was neuted and webbed, you would have a very hard time maneuvering to reduce transversal. Your ability to maneuver is critical to defeating frigates, which is why the folks who seem to have had success with battleships against frigates seem to be sharing active fits.
3. Faction webs are nice because they have longer range, but they don't slow your target down any more than a plain Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor will. Some folks overestimate how much faction webs will help.

This all points back to my comment earlier in the thread about how the fitting needs of battleships are different than other ships. It looks like you just made some bad choices.

Interestingly enough, I'd wager that if you had coupled this fit against that Incursus, along with the proper piloting, it'd have been dead right quick. A neut to kill it's cap, not plated so you're more mobile. Yes, your tracking is lower than a Mega, but with dual webs and a neuted target, you can reduce transversal by pulsing your MWD away from the frigate and there's nothing it can do to stop you.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#168 - 2015-01-24 13:16:11 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Sage wisdom.

Heed this person's advice. It is fabulous.

Situations where Tsukino's advice won't help is if the frigate pilot is flying manually or has manually reduced their speed to achieve a tighter orbit. There's something you can do in these situations too though. Assuming they're webbed and neuted out, select "Keep at Range" for about 7500m and pulse your MWD for one cycle. You will open range and if they're just orbiting they will fall into a perfect tail chase reducing transversal to practically zero. The risk here is that an alert frigate pilot will figure out what's going on in time to move the other way and get out of scram range.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Shelom Severasse
Drunken Ravagers
Drifters.
#169 - 2015-01-24 13:59:02 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion

dude. that fit is retardedly expensive.

also, dying in a solo BS to a frig means you didnt do 1 of two things (or both).

1.) initiate the engagement properly. theres too much that goes into this for me to type, but basically, just cuz youre in a BS, doesnt mean you can sit there, turn everything on, and expect to win

2.) you were solo. battleships are meant to be fleet ships or at least gang ships. being in a fleet wouldve given you the needed support to kill a frig.

im sure there are other things that couldve aided in avoiding a lossmail like that to code but those two were the first to come to mind

imo, you should look at BCs if you want to fly something big. or keep losing 650m t1 battleships with no point to hold anything down lol
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2015-01-24 18:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
Shelom Severasse wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion

dude. that fit is retardedly expensive.

also, dying in a solo BS to a frig means you didnt do 1 of two things (or both).

1.) initiate the engagement properly. theres too much that goes into this for me to type, but basically, just cuz youre in a BS, doesnt mean you can sit there, turn everything on, and expect to win

2.) you were solo. battleships are meant to be fleet ships or at least gang ships. being in a fleet wouldve given you the needed support to kill a frig.

im sure there are other things that couldve aided in avoiding a lossmail like that to code but those two were the first to come to mind

imo, you should look at BCs if you want to fly something big. or keep losing 650m t1 battleships with no point to hold anything down lol


In order to fit a point u have to lose a lot of needed utility. Generally my thought process was alpha would take out most targets quickly and thus I would drop the point. Or drive anything away that might attack.

Guess if I fly a BS I just need to fit a neut. However that still doesn't help if two frig attack at once. Can only neut one at a time. So the other one will still have me webbed and scrammed and thus I won't be able to pull range. BS are just too vulnerable to be used solo in most cases.
Shelom Severasse
Drunken Ravagers
Drifters.
#171 - 2015-01-24 18:57:46 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
Shelom Severasse wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27118231

There is your proof. Megathron, dual web, tracking enhancer, tracking rig, and tracking computer loaded with tracking script. Ishkur got in under my guns, not a single shot landed, shot all my drones and tanked them with ease. Held me till his friend in the hyperion showed up. The void loaded was when I began fighting the Hyperion, had Caldari Navy antimatter loaded with the Iskur. Game over. End of discussion

dude. that fit is retardedly expensive.

also, dying in a solo BS to a frig means you didnt do 1 of two things (or both).

1.) initiate the engagement properly. theres too much that goes into this for me to type, but basically, just cuz youre in a BS, doesnt mean you can sit there, turn everything on, and expect to win

2.) you were solo. battleships are meant to be fleet ships or at least gang ships. being in a fleet wouldve given you the needed support to kill a frig.

im sure there are other things that couldve aided in avoiding a lossmail like that to code but those two were the first to come to mind

imo, you should look at BCs if you want to fly something big. or keep losing 650m t1 battleships with no point to hold anything down lol


In order to fit a point u have to lose a lot of needed utility. Generally my thought process was alpha would take out most targets quickly and thus I would drop the point. Or drive anything away that might attack.

Guess if I fly a BS I just need to fit a neut. However that still doesn't help if two frig attack at once. Can only neut one at a time. So the other one will still have me webbed and scrammed and thus I won't be able to pull range. BS are just too vulnerable to be used solo in most cases.

then grab a buddy or two and make them come with you. like, idk, you in your mega, a logibro, and something else that can fit a web and scram and/or neut.

you could also carry neut drones if youre so worried about neuting people.

there used to be a huge thing about 2-3 man teams with 1 logi. iv usually seen it with frigs (bantam, merlin, kestrel, etc), but i wouldnt be surprised if there could be a cruiser and up analog as well. maybe you could give the nestor meaning in life lol.
Futt Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#172 - 2015-01-26 10:45:01 UTC
ITT: Better not reply to the good advice, can't continue rambling like an idiot



Snipes aside, How capable are Cruise/RHML typhoons for solo PVP?
Swanky nutjob
Holding Inc.
#173 - 2015-01-26 12:25:05 UTC
Provence Tristram wrote:


In neither war could a single destroyer or light cruiser (or even heavy cruiser) hope to sink a battleship if they happened to meet in the middle of nowhere. This is the problem with EVE's design for BSes -- not that they are better served by being part of a more balanced fleet comp, but that without a balanced fleet comp they are screwed. Which cannot be said for cruisers or frigates. THAT is the problem.


In most cases the supporting ships for Battleship fleets are all cruiser sized. There is no real remedy for this but it's not actually a problem. The problem lies elsewhere: The current BS meta is simply been killed off due to 1) Ishtars and 2) The ease of use of bombers. Every large fleet now is either Ishtars or shaped around being able to catch/hit Ishtars and absorb bomb damage. This is why you see defensive Napoc fleets with Triage support (can hit Ishtars from a static location only and absorb bomb damage), Mach fleets (because they can hit Ishtars and avoid bomb damage) and of cause Tengu fleet because it's the only other ship which approaches Ishtars in being OP and can tank everything.

If Ishtars are nerfed and bombers go back to what they were several years ago i.e. can decloak each other (anyone who says this is stupid or means they won't be used, man up and learn. We did fine running these bomber fleets before the decloak was removed) you'll see BS fleets return. But unfortunately fozzie and rise seem to only know how to balance for small gang stuff and are ignoring fleet size engagements or simply don't know how to balance for them.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#174 - 2015-01-26 16:47:56 UTC
Swanky nutjob wrote:
Provence Tristram wrote:


In neither war could a single destroyer or light cruiser (or even heavy cruiser) hope to sink a battleship if they happened to meet in the middle of nowhere. This is the problem with EVE's design for BSes -- not that they are better served by being part of a more balanced fleet comp, but that without a balanced fleet comp they are screwed. Which cannot be said for cruisers or frigates. THAT is the problem.


In most cases the supporting ships for Battleship fleets are all cruiser sized. There is no real remedy for this but it's not actually a problem. The problem lies elsewhere: The current BS meta is simply been killed off due to 1) Ishtars and 2) The ease of use of bombers. Every large fleet now is either Ishtars or shaped around being able to catch/hit Ishtars and absorb bomb damage. This is why you see defensive Napoc fleets with Triage support (can hit Ishtars from a static location only and absorb bomb damage), Mach fleets (because they can hit Ishtars and avoid bomb damage) and of cause Tengu fleet because it's the only other ship which approaches Ishtars in being OP and can tank everything.

If Ishtars are nerfed and bombers go back to what they were several years ago i.e. can decloak each other (anyone who says this is stupid or means they won't be used, man up and learn. We did fine running these bomber fleets before the decloak was removed) you'll see BS fleets return. But unfortunately fozzie and rise seem to only know how to balance for small gang stuff and are ignoring fleet size engagements or simply don't know how to balance for them.


You missed the point that this is in Lowsec.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#175 - 2015-01-26 18:50:08 UTC

Iv Nearly lost ishkurs to that web trick, it hurts.
Halos + links (in the frigate pilot) make it substantially harder to pull off but it's your best bet,
particularly if you time it when they're preoccupied fighting your drones.
Biron Soringard
Absurdity of Abstractions
#176 - 2015-01-26 22:03:51 UTC
As has been said, Battleships are fleet ships. THey are large, lumbering weapons platforms that can apply significant damage and absorb significant punishment, but need assistance from recons or Tech 3's to field EWar to help them apply it. Web Lokis or Huginns, point prots, Lach or Arazu, and so on.

The only grievance I have with Battleships is Tech 3s kind of take their job away. The Proteus in particular does BS damage, BS tank, cruiser sig, with BS range, and cruiser tracking. Seriously, a Rail Proteus with 170k EHP no links no slaves, 750+ damage, 160 sig rad, 500-ish m/s, and optimal of 20+30-ish with CNAM, and even farther out with mid-range ammo or Spike, all with decent tracking AS WELL as drones. You pay more, and lose skillpoints, sure, but it basically does the battleship's job better. Doesn't really mean BS are obsolete. Navy Apoc + Abaddon fleets are still very healthy in lowsec meta right now. However, T3 and Ishtar doctrines are giving them a run for their money.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#177 - 2015-01-27 05:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Biron Soringard wrote:
As has been said, Battleships are fleet ships. THey are large, lumbering weapons platforms that can apply significant damage and absorb significant punishment, but need assistance from recons or Tech 3's to field EWar to help them apply it. Web Lokis or Huginns, point prots, Lach or Arazu, and so on.

The only grievance I have with Battleships is Tech 3s kind of take their job away. The Proteus in particular does BS damage, BS tank, cruiser sig, with BS range, and cruiser tracking. Seriously, a Rail Proteus with 170k EHP no links no slaves, 750+ damage, 160 sig rad, 500-ish m/s, and optimal of 20+30-ish with CNAM, and even farther out with mid-range ammo or Spike, all with decent tracking AS WELL as drones. You pay more, and lose skillpoints, sure, but it basically does the battleship's job better. Doesn't really mean BS are obsolete. Navy Apoc + Abaddon fleets are still very healthy in lowsec meta right now. However, T3 and Ishtar doctrines are giving them a run for their money.


T3 are getting their long needed nerf in the next "few months".

Futt Isimazu wrote:
ITT: Better not reply to the good advice, can't continue rambling like an idiot



Snipes aside, How capable are Cruise/RHML typhoons for solo PVP?


Not too bad to be honest, I'm struggling to pick a missile BS due to all of interesting setups they can run.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2015-01-27 20:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
Futt Isimazu wrote:
ITT: Better not reply to the good advice, can't continue rambling like an idiot



Snipes aside, How capable are Cruise/RHML typhoons for solo PVP?


Rambling like an idiot? Everything I said is backed up with real situations and facts, and kill mails. Most BS are terrible on their own. Without a neut they are totally defenseless, and apparently in order to even be used correctly in most cases require significant fleet support, implants, boosters, etc. Which honestly if you read all the posts, and the above sentence, it all spells out one thing...... MOST BS ARE TERRIBLE.

I am not talking about the exceptions to the rule such as the Machariel and Vindicator. I am talking about the general state of T1 BS. The more people try to defend them with "BS need this, and this, and that, and oh yea that too, in order to be effective" the more they speak volumes of truth about my original post.

Point is, a slow, slow warping, slow tracking, slow targeting, flying paper weight, that can be outdone by several cruiser hulls, but costs about 10 times as much and requires about 20 times as much to fly properly in order to get any use out of, is a broken game element. Period.
Futt Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#179 - 2015-01-28 03:50:26 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
Futt Isimazu wrote:
ITT: Better not reply to the good advice, can't continue rambling like an idiot



Snipes aside, How capable are Cruise/RHML typhoons for solo PVP?


Rambling like an idiot? Everything I said is backed up with real situations and facts, and kill mails. Most BS are terrible on their own. Without a neut they are totally defenseless, and apparently in order to even be used correctly in most cases require significant fleet support, implants, boosters, etc. Which honestly if you read all the posts, and the above sentence, it all spells out one thing...... MOST BS ARE TERRIBLE.

I am not talking about the exceptions to the rule such as the Machariel and Vindicator. I am talking about the general state of T1 BS. The more people try to defend them with "BS need this, and this, and that, and oh yea that too, in order to be effective" the more they speak volumes of truth about my original post.

Point is, a slow, slow warping, slow tracking, slow targeting, flying paper weight, that can be outdone by several cruiser hulls, but costs about 10 times as much and requires about 20 times as much to fly properly in order to get any use out of, is a broken game element. Period.



Pretty sure every killmail you've posted has either failed to fit a neut, failed to fit an active tank, or both, and plenty of people have pointed that out.



Let's look at some lovely battleship killboards, right in the solo section.

https://zkillboard.com/ship/640/solo/

First stop: Scorpion. I definately see lots of scorpions being solo killed by frigates here... Oh wait, those are solo frigate kills by a scorpion pilot! Shock and horror. In fact, I see a lot of successful solo kills. Now let's look at the lossmails.

Every single scorpion lossmail on the first page is either a fail fit, a PVE fit, or a passive/no neut fit, and most of them are in highsec to wardec corps - losses by carebears, what a suprise.


https://zkillboard.com/ship/644/solo/

Second stop: Typhoon. Wow, this looks like a lot of solo losses to frigates again! /s
https://zkillboard.com/kill/44191075/ Even an interceptor is vulnerable to a battleship, and that's one of the fastest ships in the game. Taking a look at losses, I see (mostly) fail fits, no-neut fits, a possible AWOX and passive tanks - no suprises here.


https://zkillboard.com/ship/645/solo/

Stop 3: Dominix.

I'm going to cut right to the chase here, because I know you will too. OMG, a solo loss to a frigate! I'm right battleships useless blah blah blah. Let's look closer...
https://zkillboard.com/kill/44178505/

First of all, our battleship pilot has failed to fit a Neut. How do you expect to survive an attack from an active tanked frigate, or to escape from a frigate under your guns without a neut fitted? This pilot has already failed.

Next, if we plug the fit into EFT, something else becomes immediately apparent. This battleship is not even cap stable with all skills at level 5, and has a maximum burst tank of 180DPS - less than the DPS of a blaster enyo with good skills. The active tank is not strong enough to stop the guns of the frigate.

Finally, we look in the drone bay and see that this pilot has neglected to bring any kind of light drones, instead relying on sentries, mediums and geckos. Whoops!



As I've shown with my top quality posting, battleships do not have issues in 1v1 solo combat - it is the pilot that is the dunce, not the ship. Failure to fit an active tank, neuts and light drones can account for 90% of the solo battleship losses in eve to date.
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#180 - 2015-01-28 03:59:03 UTC
Futt Isimazu wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
Futt Isimazu wrote:
ITT: Better not reply to the good advice, can't continue rambling like an idiot



Snipes aside, How capable are Cruise/RHML typhoons for solo PVP?


Rambling like an idiot? Everything I said is backed up with real situations and facts, and kill mails. Most BS are terrible on their own. Without a neut they are totally defenseless, and apparently in order to even be used correctly in most cases require significant fleet support, implants, boosters, etc. Which honestly if you read all the posts, and the above sentence, it all spells out one thing...... MOST BS ARE TERRIBLE.

I am not talking about the exceptions to the rule such as the Machariel and Vindicator. I am talking about the general state of T1 BS. The more people try to defend them with "BS need this, and this, and that, and oh yea that too, in order to be effective" the more they speak volumes of truth about my original post.

Point is, a slow, slow warping, slow tracking, slow targeting, flying paper weight, that can be outdone by several cruiser hulls, but costs about 10 times as much and requires about 20 times as much to fly properly in order to get any use out of, is a broken game element. Period.



Pretty sure every killmail you've posted has either failed to fit a neut, failed to fit an active tank, or both, and plenty of people have pointed that out.



Let's look at some lovely battleship killboards, right in the solo section.

https://zkillboard.com/ship/640/solo/

First stop: Scorpion. I definately see lots of scorpions being solo killed by frigates here... Oh wait, those are solo frigate kills by a scorpion pilot! Shock and horror. In fact, I see a lot of successful solo kills. Now let's look at the lossmails.

Every single scorpion lossmail on the first page is either a fail fit, a PVE fit, or a passive/no neut fit, and most of them are in highsec to wardec corps - losses by carebears, what a suprise.


https://zkillboard.com/ship/644/solo/

Second stop: Typhoon. Wow, this looks like a lot of solo losses to frigates again! /s
https://zkillboard.com/kill/44191075/ Even an interceptor is vulnerable to a battleship, and that's one of the fastest ships in the game. Taking a look at losses, I see (mostly) fail fits, no-neut fits, a possible AWOX and passive tanks - no suprises here.


https://zkillboard.com/ship/645/solo/

Stop 3: Dominix.

I'm going to cut right to the chase here, because I know you will too. OMG, a solo loss to a frigate! I'm right battleships useless blah blah blah. Let's look closer...
https://zkillboard.com/kill/44178505/

First of all, our battleship pilot has failed to fit a Neut. How do you expect to survive an attack from an active tanked frigate, or to escape from a frigate under your guns without a neut fitted? This pilot has already failed.

Next, if we plug the fit into EFT, something else becomes immediately apparent. This battleship is not even cap stable with all skills at level 5, and has a maximum burst tank of 180DPS - less than the DPS of a blaster enyo with good skills. The active tank is not strong enough to stop the guns of the frigate.

Finally, we look in the drone bay and see that this pilot has neglected to bring any kind of light drones, instead relying on sentries, mediums and geckos. Whoops!



As I've shown with my top quality posting, battleships do not have issues in 1v1 solo combat - it is the pilot that is the dunce, not the ship. Failure to fit an active tank, neuts and light drones can account for 90% of the solo battleship losses in eve to date.


Where were you on my last thread, i agree with you, Neut is a must, i am currently working on a Scorpion ECM config for solo PvP, mainly for inter-corp duels, but still valid, thanks for those kill mails though, i will be going through them to find the do's and donts.