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Warp Assist Module
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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2015-01-29 06:37:27 UTC
Indeed, but again if that were remotely practical or likely for people being bumped these debates wouldn't happen. You lose all movement control when you're being bumped, that's why LE is not useful, unfortunately.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#122 - 2015-01-29 12:13:00 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I don't want to remove bumping. I want you to lock the ship and point it if you want to bump it for more than 45 seconds. Heck I'll give you a full minute if you want. Bumping is fine - I'm all for it.

An ibis bumping a capital ship all day w/ no recourse is borked - I'm against it.

EDIT: check my corp KB. The nid we got 2 nights ago was orbiting it's pos in a wh. We got a sweet warp in and a few key bumps and you see the results. I would never be against bumping - it's a core part of eve. I'm just against freighter bumping in HS by a noob in a frigate for 15 minutes while his pals log in.


I call BS on a freighter getting bumped by a frigate as the mass equations would prevent it from doing much of anything, let alone the fact that all you'd need would be one noob in a frigate with a web to get the freighter out of there.

Any time we bumped a freighter, it was with a Macharial specifically rigged and fit to get as much mass and speed as possible out of the hull. And the reason people spend time bumping freighters is to get it out of the range of gate guns and any white knights who may be around.

If you really wanted to help non-afk freighter pilots, you'd be asking CCP to change the webbing aggression mechanics to get your freighters into warp instantly and not have to wait on gates. Or ask them for a lowslot module that reduces warp speed, so your timer can run out before you land on the gate.


OK, so what you want to be able to do is bump the freighter out of gate gun range w/ a billion plus isk ship with zero risk to said super mach? That's a pretty lame thing to say you need to preserve, but at least now we're getting somewhere.

You just want to be able to bump the freighter off grid so no one (gate guns and white knights) can help the freighter pilot. You want to be able to do this risk free (to protect your billiion isk special mach) and without consequences. In short - YOU WANT A FREE RIDE - all the time spouting HTFU and such. You want it both ways.

My point still stands. The fact that a subcap can bump a capital ship several 100km and it can't at some point in that 100km of bumped travel manage to get into warp is borked. It's just wrong. I really don't want to hear all your provided possibilities to counter it. What you're doing is fubar from the get go. I'm not seeing where a pilot should have to do anything to counter this insanity beyond being at the keyboard initiating a warp out attempt.

I really don't see a problem with gank gangs being required to point a freighter to keep it from warping away. I also don't see a problem with indirectly forcing gank gangs to execute the gank in range of gate guns and (the horror) where some random noob might be able to snag a share of the loot.

Here's what the max warp timer would do to the game. For auto piloting freighter pilots - there would be no change. You can bump them on the incoming like you normally would - ALL DAY LONG if you like. For pilots actively playing and not using auto pilot you would have to nab them on the gate and face gate guns and random looters. 6 gate guns would force your to add 6 more catalysts to the mix. Not a big expenditure in isk or manpower. As to the loot - there aren't many random looters equipped to pick up a freighter full of loot, so???

I'm not seeing why this upsets you so much. Because gate guns and someone might steal my ganked freighter loot??

I still stand by some sort of maximum time limit to initiat warp.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2015-01-29 13:32:06 UTC
How is a LE timer "Zero Risk"? If they re-work the bumping mechanics so a 100mn stabber can do the same bumpage as a mach, then sure, give him a suspect timer. Or a highslot module that gives a suspect timer. Something that gives an incentive to travel with an escort instead of AFKing. Even "AFK" pilots would still get an advantage because not everyone bumps someone on the inbound gate. We targeted manual freighters, and were forced to bump them on the outbound gate before they managed to get into warp.

Again, you're ignoring the fact that a single MWD frigate would save your precious freighter with very little effort if you are getting bumped by a Macharial. The Macharial is the largest subcap in the game, and these freighters are nothing more than an engine slapped onto a soda can. Doesn't matter how massive they are if it's just a thin skin with bupkiss in the way of engines and defense.

Don't talk to me about free rides when you have freighter pilots left and right QQing and whining about how they got ganked while AFKing through Niarja with 30 A-type EANMs in their cargohold. Manual freighter pilots with less than 7b in their hold almost never get targeted by a random ganker. Adding bulkheads further increases their chance of survival, and using a JF gives them a safety "GTFO" button, not even counting the tank. It should be common sense not to stuff 20-50b worth of stuff into your cargohold just like it's common sense you don't try to move 70 PLEX through enemy FW territory in a Loki.
KickAss Tivianne
Lohengrin Legion
#124 - 2015-04-03 14:07:10 UTC  |  Edited by: KickAss Tivianne
Serendipity Lost wrote:
[

OK, so what you want to be able to do is bump the freighter out of gate gun range w/ a billion plus isk ship with zero risk to said super mach? That's a pretty lame thing to say you need to preserve, but at least now we're getting somewhere.

You just want to be able to bump the freighter off grid so no one (gate guns and white knights) can help the freighter pilot. You want to be able to do this risk free (to protect your billiion isk special mach) and without consequences. In short - YOU WANT A FREE RIDE - all the time spouting HTFU and such. You want it both ways.

My point still stands. The fact that a subcap can bump a capital ship several 100km and it can't at some point in that 100km of bumped travel manage to get into warp is borked. It's just wrong. I really don't want to hear all your provided possibilities to counter it. What you're doing is fubar from the get go. I'm not seeing where a pilot should have to do anything to counter this insanity beyond being at the keyboard initiating a warp out attempt.

I really don't see a problem with gank gangs being required to point a freighter to keep it from warping away. I also don't see a problem with indirectly forcing gank gangs to execute the gank in range of gate guns and (the horror) where some random noob might be able to snag a share of the loot.

Here's what the max warp timer would do to the game. For auto piloting freighter pilots - there would be no change. You can bump them on the incoming like you normally would - ALL DAY LONG if you like. For pilots actively playing and not using auto pilot you would have to nab them on the gate and face gate guns and random looters. 6 gate guns would force your to add 6 more catalysts to the mix. Not a big expenditure in isk or manpower. As to the loot - there aren't many random looters equipped to pick up a freighter full of loot, so???

I'm not seeing why this upsets you so much. Because gate guns and someone might steal my ganked freighter loot??

I still stand by some sort of maximum time limit to initiat warp.



I agree... there has to be a limit. The endless bumping of a freighter is harassment. Just trying to get a ransom from the pilot with no gank fleet ready. Or bumping the freighter for 30 minutes while a gank fleet is assembled. It is too much.


I was thinking a similar idea before, but more like an "Emergency Warp" activation. Would cause a fancy animation of some huge rotational warp drive engines to come out of the haul (so the ganker does not know if this freighter has the module). Of course this would take time to deploy once activated. Maybe 2 or 3 minutes (at best for level 5 skills, or maybe a longer delay for level 1 skills?!?) to deploy and energize the emergency warp engines. Then once deployed you could warp to the destination, no matter what the angle of the ship is. Because the engines would turn to the correct position and launch it.

The draw backs to this are:
- You still have to be there and activate the module. So if you are AFK... though a dangerous system. It won't help.
- The timing activation delay. So if someone is bumping you..... (Don't need to point fingers at any CORPS), they will still be able to try to do the gank, if they are actually planning on ganking that freighter. However, they will have to be ready, not just one person in a MACH extorting ISK from the freighter pilot.
- Maybe a cool down timer after??
- Less cargo hold, the HUGE Emergency Warp drive engines will take up space that was used for cargo hold.


I am not arguing the concept of bumping or the gank of a freighter. It is currently a valid game play. Basically something to counter the endless bumping. Till the freighter pilot either falls asleep, 2 hours later a gank squad shows up, or the pilot pays the RANSOM to get free, but even then it is not a guarantee.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#125 - 2015-04-03 14:19:13 UTC
KickAss Tivianne wrote:
I agree... there has to be a limit. The endless bumping of a freighter is harassment. Just trying to get a ransom from the pilot with no gank fleet ready. Or bumping the freighter for 30 minutes while a gank fleet is assembled. It is too much.


I was thinking a similar idea before, but more like an "Emergency Warp" activation. Would cause a fancy animation of some huge rotational warp drive engines to come out of the haul (so the ganker does not know if this freighter has the module). Of course this would take time to deploy once activated. Maybe 2 or 3 minutes (at best for level 5 skills, or maybe a longer delay for level 1 skills?!?) to deploy and energize the emergency warp engines. Then once deployed you could warp to the destination, no matter what the angle of the ship is. Because the engines would turn to the correct position and launch it.

The draw backs to this are:
- You still have to be there and activate the module. So if you are AFK... though a dangerous system. It won't help.
- The timing activation delay. So if someone is bumping you..... (Don't need to point fingers at any CORPS), they will still be able to try to do the gank, if they are actually planning on ganking that freighter. However, they will have to be ready, not just one person in a MACH extorting ISK from the freighter pilot.
- Maybe a cool down timer after??
- Less cargo hold, the HUGE Emergency Warp drive engines will take up space that was used for cargo hold.


I am not arguing the concept of bumping or the gank of a freighter. It is currently a valid game play. Basically something to counter the endless bumping. Till the freighter pilot either falls asleep, 2 hours later a gank squad shows up, or the pilot pays the RANSOM to get free, but even then it is not a guarantee.

I like that your idea has a fitting cost but your time is way too short. Aside from ransom, the whole purpose of bumping is to buy time to assemble a gank fleet. Only 2 minutes is far too short and gives too much immunity to the primary way gankers use to tackle.

Probably like a 40 minutes (level 1) spool up going down to 20 minutes at level 5 would be more appropriate. It at least has to be as long as a single criminal timer. However the spool-up effect would probably be enough to get you away from most bumpers-for-ransom because once they see that you are not going to pay and have a ticket out in 20-40 minutes, they will move on to someone else right away who hasn't fit that module.



The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#126 - 2015-04-03 14:40:44 UTC
What about a capital-sized micro jump drive for freighters? (which would also require giving freighters at least one medium slot)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#127 - 2015-04-03 15:24:07 UTC
As someone who regularly helps freighters pass Uedama just get somehting with long range webs (i run a loki with 3 webs and buffer and web range boosts) and have no issues...

i can have both the ships off grid in well under 5 secodns (under 2 normally)...
KickAss Tivianne
Lohengrin Legion
#128 - 2015-04-03 21:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: KickAss Tivianne
Black Pedro wrote:
KickAss Tivianne wrote:
I agree... there has to be a limit. The endless bumping of a freighter is harassment. Just trying to get a ransom from the pilot with no gank fleet ready. Or bumping the freighter for 30 minutes while a gank fleet is assembled. It is too much.


I was thinking a similar idea before, but more like an "Emergency Warp" activation. Would cause a fancy animation of some huge rotational warp drive engines to come out of the haul (so the ganker does not know if this freighter has the module). Of course this would take time to deploy once activated. Maybe 2 or 3 minutes (at best for level 5 skills, or maybe a longer delay for level 1 skills?!?) to deploy and energize the emergency warp engines. Then once deployed you could warp to the destination, no matter what the angle of the ship is. Because the engines would turn to the correct position and launch it.

The draw backs to this are:
- You still have to be there and activate the module. So if you are AFK... though a dangerous system. It won't help.
- The timing activation delay. So if someone is bumping you..... (Don't need to point fingers at any CORPS), they will still be able to try to do the gank, if they are actually planning on ganking that freighter. However, they will have to be ready, not just one person in a MACH extorting ISK from the freighter pilot.
- Maybe a cool down timer after??
- Less cargo hold, the HUGE Emergency Warp drive engines will take up space that was used for cargo hold.


I am not arguing the concept of bumping or the gank of a freighter. It is currently a valid game play. Basically something to counter the endless bumping. Till the freighter pilot either falls asleep, 2 hours later a gank squad shows up, or the pilot pays the RANSOM to get free, but even then it is not a guarantee.

I like that your idea has a fitting cost but your time is way too short. Aside from ransom, the whole purpose of bumping is to buy time to assemble a gank fleet. Only 2 minutes is far too short and gives too much immunity to the primary way gankers use to tackle.

Probably like a 40 minutes (level 1) spool up going down to 20 minutes at level 5 would be more appropriate. It at least has to be as long as a single criminal timer. However the spool-up effect would probably be enough to get you away from most bumpers-for-ransom because once they see that you are not going to pay and have a ticket out in 20-40 minutes, they will move on to someone else right away who hasn't fit that module.




Ya the timing can be adjusted, ya maybe 2-3 min would be too quick. Maybe 10 or 15 minutes or so for level 5, and 30 minutes level 1...? If you can't get a gank fleet past that time your just harassing someone trying to intimidate and get ransom. We can negotiate on the fair timers with CCP.. :)

Yes, that is good that they will move on. But by making the module not known, maybe not scanable?? They won't know if the target they are bumping has it. So if everyone starts using it, the gank fleet will need to be ready. And then the Anti-Ganking crowed will have to help.

It just stops the empty ransoms. And if someone is AFK or does not have this module... Anti-Gankers will also have to help, but if people use the module and don't go AFK it should help out. But... you know how people are.