Player Features and Ideas Discussion

First and foremost, this is a suggestion to mitigate the all or nothing bumping meta in highsec right now. Obviously, look who I work for. But it's not ONLY for that.

I'm proposing a "Warp Assist Module", probably med slot, with fitting requirements similar to webs/scrams. Despite having the name "Assist" in there, I think it should be an offensive module, for various reasons I'll cover.

What it does: adds 0.5pts warp core stability to the target and removes alignment requirement for entering warp; once you are at 75%+ speed you will enter warp regardless of alignment assuming you are not negative WC points. It does this by overriding CONCORD safety mechanisms in the target; as a result, target will land at a random distance from the target warp location, say somewhere in a spherical shell between 25km and 100km of the target (specifics not too relevant, but basically you should not be able to instant dock/gate jump after using this thing). Like a cyno/bastion, it should set velocity of the activating ship to 0 and root that ship in place. Range similar to webs/scrams; 10k or so. It should have a minimum 30s cycle time before the effect lands on the target; I'd say starting at 60s with a skill-based 5s per level reduction. (An alternative approach is to make it use the hacking mini-game instead, since you are hacking the ship's CONCORD warp safety mechanisms).

Because this is classified offensive, it would be in the ECM category. That means ships immune to ECM cannot benefit from this (supercaps I'm looking at you). Further, neutrals on field in highsec cannot intervene in bumping ops without incurring a GCC. I would classify it under the propulsion jamming category so inties get the regular bonuses for this.

Why is this needed?

Well, primarily, escaping a bump in a freighter is basically impossible once caught by a competent bumper. You are 100% trapped. Your only option is to muster a gank fleet to pop the bumper. I would like there to be a LEGAL mechanism to turn bumping into a less black and white activity.

But but but... you can already avoid high-sec bumping by X, Y, Z...!

Yeah... no. Perfect intel, scouting, and webbing isn't a 100% effective way to avoid being trapped by a bumper. There are two systems in high-sec EVE that cannot be avoided BY DESIGN and everyone knows this and how to lock 'em down. Nevermind that a bumping mach can outwarp a freighter and get ahead of it pretty easily regardless of where it's headed. Most importantly, those are options to AVOID bumping. Not to COUNTER bumping. This is a mechanism intended to provide a gameplay mechanic to counter bumping, as there currently is none.

Doesn't this nerf bumping?

Not really. The module intentionally has many limitations built in that high-sec gank/bump fleets SHOULD be able to overcome. At worst they can gank the assist ships if they can't manage to bump the target 10k out of range within the 30-60s cycle time. However, it requires them to work a bit harder to keep a ship bumped, and it gives a valid legal option for escaping bumps that doesn't require mustering your own gank fleet.

Is this only for bumping?

No, the +0.5 WCS should provide interesting gameplay options for lowsec gatecamps and other scenarios too. Anything that adds dynamics to pointing things should make infinite point HICs more fun to use, particularly in lowsec subcap fleets. And a whole generation of hero tackle can now also be hero untackle.

EDIT: What about webbers?

(see response below -- tl;dr, webbing is an avoidance technique, not a counter)

EDIT: What about manual piloting?

If you've been bumped you know that the EVE client stops reporting your velocity and alignment accurately. Your ship will randomly "twitch" to point in new directions all the time, even between bumps. There is no way to skillfully manual pilot out of a bumping scenario; you might get lucky, but the EVE physics engine/client simply doesn't handle the scenario accurately enough to depend on manual piloting skill.

No because once you are actively being bumped, webbing does nothing.

EDIT: Just to clarify... webbing only gets you to your 75% warp speed quickly and only works alignment-wise when starting from a standstill. Bumping interferes with your ALIGNMENT, not your speed (if anything, it makes you much faster than you would normally be).

Once you've been bumped a webber is pretty much useless. Sure, webbers can help you AVOID being bumped in many situations, but it's not perfect. Again this is a suggestion to provide a gameplay mechanic that counters active bumping as it occurs, not just another option to avoid it, of which we already have plenty.

Exactly. At this point you have a fair chance to get your support webber there. But so too do the bumpers have the chance to guess which celestial you warped to and get their mach on you first. It's intentional that it should not be a clean getaway; you'll still need to then escape with a proper pinpoint warp. More chances for bumpers to win, more "real" gameplay all around.

(same arguments apply for any ship trying to escape, not just freighter bumping; e.g. a BS that escapes points with "hero untackle" in this manner will still be vulnerable to fast opposing inties figuring out where they warped to, landing there first, and simply re-pointing them... but now the battlefield is fluid)

I have no desire to remove or totally nerf the ability to bump and gank freighters in highsec. I just want a legal mechanism to counter the act of bumping that makes the outcome no longer 100% certain in favor of the bumper.

Sure, avoidance is great, but bumping as a mechanic has no actual mechanical counter, which is lopsided.

That's not what happens when you web a cap as it's leaving warp; the issue gets compounded and it takes about 3 cycles to get the thing back on course, by which point's it's been bumped again.

Nope, it doesn't. Webbing is an avoidance technique. Once bumped, webbing is useless. Further, webbing, like all the other avoidance techniques, is not a magic bullet. Support webbers are not 100% perfect for avoidance. Further further, the module is not ONLY for countering bumping. As described it's also a whole new gameplay counter mechanic to tackling in general.



Correct, there's no guarantee you will escape from the second location. Webbers can help here, just depending on your random alignment at the time. If you happen to drop out roughly aligned with something a support webber will absolutely help you get from 25% to 75% more quickly. If you aren't pointed in a good direction though, then yes, it might not be very helpful at all. Alternatively you might have a second warp assist alt there ready to throw you in a new direction, ideally one the bumpers don't get a chance to see.

Regardless, the fact that it's not a perfect escape technique is, again, intentional. It's supposed to be balanced, and that means the aggressors should have a chance to re-acquire you as a target even after using this module, which they do. But it's no longer 100% certain either way who's is going to come out on top. Hence, gameplay.

There is a hard counter to being alpha'd; it's called buffer tank. Sure there's an upper limit, but you CAN fit to counter alpha strikes, especially if that alpha is coming from a single ship. Nevermind all the piloting options, depending on ship sizes, etc. In short there is no such thing as a 100% certain alpha strike.

There is no mechanical counter to being bumped by a single ship. The only option is to avoid it in the first place, which isn't a counter at all. There are very few 100% certain traps/mechanics in EVE and those that exist tend to annoy people. This is one of those situations where a relatively balanced module can be introduced to remove the 100% certainty.

Lastly, the module as described is not even close to a "get out of jail free" card. It's a "here's a lockpick, good luck getting out of jail" card.

Get webber buddy in Daredevil to burn 150+ km in the direction they're bumping you. Warp to him. Tada! Your freighter is safe(ish).

There is no way to balance this though, the Jita undock would be a massacre as hundreds of innocent pilots were volleyed of the field by the ever indifferent CONCORD, or if we go the suspect flag route, fleets of Tornadoes camping outside to blap anyone undocking with a timer whilst remaining in the law.

But I digress, this is a thread about anti ganker/bumper 'win' buttons as it were, not wether or not bumping is morraly wrong :P

Bumping is used to keep capitals and supers unaligned and kept apart from each other to remove the ability to rep or fire. It is a perfectly valid mechanic, and if your freighter with 20b of loot is getting bumped, you can kiss it goodbye and next time don't move so much in a single freighter.

So you are officially agreeing that there is NO mechanics counter to being bumped at the moment? None? It is 100% effective once initiated, and that the only valid counters in the game right now are, in fact, avoidance techniques to ensure bumping never begins and not actual counters to the mechanic of bumping itself?

Just clarifying.