EVE General Discussion

Ok I normally inhabit features and ideas so I'm not sure if this is the right section but after reading a post where it was pointed out that rate of fire bonuses are reductions in your weapon cycle time, it got me wondering.

So as a basis of reference

DPS (DPS) = Damage (D) / Cycle time (T)

A 10% Bonus to dps would mean DPS = D (1+0.1) / T or simply 1.1 * DPS (a 10% boost, funny that)
A 10% Reduction to RoF, DPS = D/T(1-0.1) or DPS/0.9 ~= 1.11* DPS (11.11% boost)

So a bonus to RoF is stronger than a bonus to DPS for the same value. But then (I'm an Engineering student so doing mathematics intrigues me and this was almost fun to do) I figured that while the relation between DPS and Damage is linear, the relationship between DPS and RoF is an inverse function, or like this

http://puu.sh/eJiXZ/008c4cda12.png
and its derivative,
http://puu.sh/eJjd7/8239167c83.png


Where the benefit to DPS from reduced RoF gets higher and higher faster and faster - i.e.
25% bonus to damage = 25% bonus to DPS, 25% reduction in RoF = 33% bonus in DPS
+50% damage, +50% DPS | 50% reduction to RoF, 100% bonus to DPS
And the list goes on.

Now the drawback is you chew through ammo faster and have to reload more frequently, but whatevs.
For those who already knew this sorry for stating the obvious.

tl;dr
I was bored, did some number crunching, felt like writing a post about it. RoF bonuses are stronger than they seem ;)

If I'm thinking about this correctly....

two weapons with the same DPS but one has a slow rate of fire with high damage and the other is low damage and a high rof cycle... if each shot has a 3% chance to wreck then statistically (key word :P) you're going to get the same amount of damage over the same period of time.

It's just... you're a bit safer firing a lot of shots which can crit moderately than a single shot that miiight crit for massive damage but chances are it won't.


Also I'm a missile pleb so I'm like "wrecking shot? what's that?"
Although I've recently started using drones more intensively.
And holy **** medium drones apply dps so much better than HML's O.O

That makes no sense.
Theory > Practise and quite frankly, your logic is screwed.

If you shoot over the course of a minute,
the weapon that shoots more often within that minute
has a higher potential of doing more damage than the other.

That's really all that's necessary to consider.

Besides, no one said anything about "low damage, high rof".
I have no idea where you bring that into it.




Oooohhh you use missiles ... well, no wonder .........

Godzilla (the latest) in 3D IMAX...best movie...ever.

According to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174360 your equations are wrong (read further.. The equations in that thread are wrong). Take a look at this image. It says that 25% increased RoF decreases the cycle time by 20% (so not 25% as in your equations).

Doing the math again would mean:
DMG = 1
RoF = 1/s
Cycle time = 1
DMG-increase = 10%
RoF-increase = 10%

10% DMG increase: DPS = DMG*DMG-increase/Cycle time = 1*1.1/1 = 1.1dps
10% RoF increase: DPS = DMG / (Cycle time / RoF * RoF-increase) = 1 / (1 / 1 * 1.1) = 1.1dps

The crit-chance doesn't have to be included in the calculations:

Gun: DMG = 1, fires 200 rounds per minute
DMG-increase = 50%
RoF-increase = 50%
Crit-% = 3%
Crit-damage = 300%

Scenario DMG-increase:
Total damage = 1.5 * 200 = 300 base damage
Including crit means 6 critical hits, 3 * 6 = 18 so total damage including crits = 318
(Why 3 * 6? We already added 100% of a single shot to base damage, so we only have to add 200% DMG per crit.
DMG * DMG-increase = 1.5. 1.5 * 2 = 3. Amount of critical hits = 6, hence 3 * 6)

Scenario RoF-increase:
Total damage = 1 * 300 = 300 base damage
Including crit means 9 critical hits, 2 * 9 = 18 so total damage including crits = 318
(Why 2 * 9? We already added 100% of a single shot to base damage, so we only have to add 200% DMG per crit.
DMG = 1. 1 * 2 = 2. Amount of critical hits = 9, hence 2 * 9)

According to both EFT and Pyfa increasing your RoF does indeed do more damage in comparison to increasing the damage per volley. Not sure what I'm missing or why this is the case (it's possible that the values shown by Pyfa and EFT don't calculate the increased reload time over a certain time perspective, while their calculations add some dps to compensate for the increased reload time over a certain time perspective. Or, CCP might've added a bit to RoF-damage to compensate for both increased reload time and increased cap-usage). However, if you can go for +RoF and +DMG, that has a greater output than +RoF and +RoF or +DMG and +DMG in terms of modules (due to stacking penalties).

Yay I learned something new! :D

Thanks! :D

Never got past 300k SP with missiles. ^_^

@Grauth: I'm no math expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not sure if the formula you're using for applying the turret RoF bonus is correct.

I distinctly remember the Eris getting a change from a higher damage bonus to a slightly lesser RoF bonus, that ended up in the same rough damage if I remember correctly. from what CCP Rise stated in the thread. It was later changed and left alone, but the argument was still made about the RoF bonus.

Damage = 100 Dmg
Rate of Fire = once per 10s

100 / 10 = 10 DPS

For a 25% damage bonus:

(100 * 1.25) / 10 = 125 / 10 = 12.5

And a 25% RoF bonus:

100 / (10 * (1 - 0.25)) = 133.33 / 10 = 13.333

Your formula (top) is different from mine (bottom). Yours doesn't seem right to me.
DPS = DMG / (Cycle Time / RoF * RoF-increase)
DPS = DMG / (Cycle Time * (RoF - RoF-Bonus))

Like I said, I'm no math expert. So, correct me where you see fit.

Let's have a look at some actual in-game data:

Base:
RoF = 1.7s
DMG = 2.820375 * 8 (standard crystal) * 3 (fitted 3 guns) = 67.689
DPS = 39.8 (67.689 / 1.7 = 39.81705882352941)

DMG-increase:
10%
RoF = 1.7s
DMG = 3.1024125x
DPS = 43.8

RoF-increase:
10%
RoF = 1.53s
DMG = 2.820375x
DPS = 44.2

The DPS shown here is the DPS as shown in-game, so now it's time to find the right formula (if there is any (there is, I already had a sneak-peak))

In terms of damage increase:
RoF = 1.7s
DMG = 3.1024125 * 8 * 3 = 74.4579
DPS = 43.8 (74.4579 / 1.7 = 43.79876470588235)

In terms of rate of fire increase:
RoF = 1.53s
DMG = 2.820375 * 8 * 3 = 67.689
DPS = 44.2 (67.689 / 1.53 = 44.24117647058824)

So this is consistent. The next question is how do you get from 1.7s to 1.53s when the RoF-bonus is 10%...

RoF = Cycle time / RoF * RoF-bonus = 1.7 / 1.1 = 1.545454545454545s
RoF = Cycle time * (RoF - RoF-Bonus) = 1.7 * 0.9 = 1.53s

Wait, what!? Why?! Turns out you, and with you the OP, are right in your equations Luckily I still have one backup for not being wrong though, as I don't like to admit that I am wrong... Turned out that the post I linked contains wrong information!

Meh...

I just shoot a stuff.

If they blow up, I'm happy. If I blow up, I try something else. I just can't be bothered with all that ciphering.

Mr Epeen