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Noob New Ship: Confessor vs Oracle

Author
Deadspace Acclamator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-01-16 18:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Deadspace Acclamator
I have been playing on and off, no more then a month at a time, over the past few years. I'm about two weeks into my latest stint and think I'm going to give Eve a real try this time (~3 months). I fly a Maller currently. Medium focused beams, if it matters. I've also a Iteron I use for afk mining occasionally, about ~15 million isk in items and ~35 million isk towards a new ship.

Mostly running security missions atm. Earning isk and standing. Hope to branch into research someday.

For my next ship I am trying to decide between a Confessor or an Oracle. They're each about 60-70 million isk.

The Confessor is more versatile. Much faster getting from point a to b and salvaging. Should, I think, be more damage but less tank than my Maller. Maybe with the right (armor) fittings more damage and tank. Biggest concern here, is until I can afford better items to fit it, will be a tank down grade just throwing the items from my Maller in it and I'll get overwhelmed in certain lvl 2 security missions even easier.

The Oracle would be more fire power. More tank and damage right out of the box with only my Maller items swapped over. Should make all lvl 2's a cakewalk and, I imagine, allow me to run lvl 3s once I get the standings. Biggest concern here is travel times. It is even slower than my Maller.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2015-01-16 19:03:04 UTC
the oracle makes for a poor pve boat, with the exception of belt ratting where it can land at range and pop stuff.

go with the confessor now that its reasonably priced.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-01-16 19:06:01 UTC
1. Don't mine in industrial ships
2. Confessor and oracle are both equally terrible at mission running, confessor winning out slightly
3. Don't bother salvaging unless you're killing battleship class rats

Oracle has much more raw dps on paper compared to other ships of similar size, however this is because it fits large guns.

Now large guns are good against large targets, but once you start going cruiser and smaller (especially with mediocre gunnery skills) you will find you probably do more damage in a frigate.
Deadspace Acclamator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-01-16 19:19:58 UTC
Thanks for the advice. I had been leaning more toward the confessor anyway.

I know industrial ships are not meant for mining. Hence "afk mining." I park it mining for sixty minutes at a time and go shower, walk the dog, whatever and come back to almost a million isk. A real mining ship would earn more in less time but that isn't the point.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-01-16 19:31:56 UTC
sometimes using the above method means you come back to your pod in a station with your ship and any implants magically gone ;)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2015-01-16 19:34:45 UTC
particularly after its been mentioned publicly
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2015-01-16 19:50:18 UTC
You should probably read up on gunnery and tracking so that you can understand why the oracle is so bad at so many things. It's a niche ship with a very specific role.

But learning gunnery will help you understand not just the oracle but how guns work, how to apply dps to targets and how to avoid incoming dps. Once you understand these things you'll have a better idea of how to pilot a ship and what ship would be better suited for you.

I would recomend that you stick with T1 cruisers at the moment. Probably the next step should be to tech up instead of size up by that I mean tech 2 assault frig or heavy assault cruiser or maybe even tech 3 crusier. Large ships and large weapons take a long time to train and I recommend staying away from the battleship skill point trap early on. That most certainly includes the battleship guns on the oracle.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Dracones
Tarsis Inc
#8 - 2015-01-16 19:53:47 UTC
Deadspace Acclamator wrote:

For my next ship I am trying to decide between a Confessor or an Oracle. They're each about 60-70 million isk.


Um, no. I guess Confessor is okay for missions, but you really need skills to fly it. For a newer character battlecruisers are a good bang for the buck. But the Oracle isn't what you want. Check out Harbingers. They're really versatile, are pretty easy to get cap stable even with 2 medium armor repairers running and aren't that hard to fit out. I've ran them in wormholes and they can tank like a beast.

If you're into drones a Prophecy is also a good choice. But the Oracle just isn't. It's a glass cannon and you'll need to spend more time training up the large gun skills.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-01-16 21:07:17 UTC
Deadspace Acclamator wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I had been leaning more toward the confessor anyway.

I know industrial ships are not meant for mining. Hence "afk mining." I park it mining for sixty minutes at a time and go shower, walk the dog, whatever and come back to almost a million isk. A real mining ship would earn more in less time but that isn't the point.


Im certain that even PI is more profitable than that. Have you ever thought of starting it? I find its a decent income maker for new players.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Interaction
Marsan
#10 - 2015-01-16 22:46:24 UTC
One thing to note is Amarr ships are general the wrong way to go for missioning and ratting unless you will always be ratting/missioning against the Sasha and Blood Raiders factions. Projectiles and Missiles are able to switch damage types. If you want to excel at missioning you need to match your damage and defences against the damage the other side puts out and is weak against.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/NPC_Damage_Types

Another option if you like Amarr ships is to go heavy into drones. Going lasers for PVE is a mistake long term.

As far as the Maller not being able to do do L2s??? It should be slow, but it's a tanking beast. An Omen might be a better L2 ship as it has better DPS. I suspect you are fitting it wrong or are fighting the wrong type of ships.

Take a look at the PVE fits on Eve Uni.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Maller
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Omen

PS- You might want to consider mixing up things a bit with exploration or faction warfare.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Celine Sophia Maricadie
Tal-Cel Industry and Salvage LLC
#11 - 2015-01-17 08:58:44 UTC
Deadspace Acclamator wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I had been leaning more toward the confessor anyway.

I know industrial ships are not meant for mining. Hence "afk mining." I park it mining for sixty minutes at a time and go shower, walk the dog, whatever and come back to almost a million isk. A real mining ship would earn more in less time but that isn't the point.
You will encounter much "hatred" over this, not only for mining in a non-mining traited ship, but also the fact that you're deliberately doing this AFK. Chances are you'll come back to your session and find yourself floating in your pod. There are those that will suicide gank you just because you're doing this. There are those that specialize in finding and destroying AFK miners.

You can AFK mine in a mining ship, and even use the free Venture(s) you get from the career agents. Nothing is wrong with AFK mining, heck, mining is pretty boring, so that's why many do it AFK, or at least they get mining and then switch their attention to something else, such as an alt account's activities, or another game, etc., but there is an Eve cultural bias against AFKers.

At the end of the day, play how you want (I believe in that), but you will find that as you go against the grain of advice given you'll end up being treated more as a troll. At least, though, you acknowledge the "fail" in your particular chosen practice of AFK mining Blink. Stick to your guns, just as others will stick their guns to you Blink.

As suggested by Solonius, look into Planetary Interaction. It produces for you while you're off doing other things so it's netting you ISK in the background, so to speak. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Interaction
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#12 - 2015-01-17 09:05:52 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
Deadspace Acclamator wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I had been leaning more toward the confessor anyway.

I know industrial ships are not meant for mining. Hence "afk mining." I park it mining for sixty minutes at a time and go shower, walk the dog, whatever and come back to almost a million isk. A real mining ship would earn more in less time but that isn't the point.


Im certain that even PI is more profitable than that. Have you ever thought of starting it? I find its a decent income maker for new players.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Interaction


PI in hisec isn't massively profitable because most of the planets are heavily farmed as is. You'll make isk that's for sure but you can't pump it for all it's worth because the hotspots get scooped up pretty quick. The secret is to find some backwater cluster in the middle of nowhere's ville with a few mission agents or belts nearby and mine the living crap out of p0, turn it into p1. Once you got a nice stock of p1, export, sell or turn it into p2 materials using a 'factory' plannet (a barrent planet fully fitted out to just turn p1 into p2)

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#13 - 2015-01-17 09:14:17 UTC
Marsan wrote:
One thing to note is Amarr ships are general the wrong way to go for missioning and ratting unless you will always be ratting/missioning against the Sasha and Blood Raiders factions. Projectiles and Missiles are able to switch damage types. If you want to excel at missioning you need to match your damage and defences against the damage the other side puts out and is weak against.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/NPC_Damage_Types

Another option if you like Amarr ships is to go heavy into drones. Going lasers for PVE is a mistake long term.

As far as the Maller not being able to do do L2s??? It should be slow, but it's a tanking beast. An Omen might be a better L2 ship as it has better DPS. I suspect you are fitting it wrong or are fighting the wrong type of ships.

Take a look at the PVE fits on Eve Uni.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Maller
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Omen

PS- You might want to consider mixing up things a bit with exploration or faction warfare.

There not wrong their just marginally less optimal than others,
you can use amaar ships anywhere , it just may take an extra volley or two.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-01-17 10:11:42 UTC
Marsan wrote:
One thing to note is Amarr ships are general the wrong way to go for missioning and ratting unless you will always be ratting/missioning against the Sasha and Blood Raiders factions. Projectiles and Missiles are able to switch damage types. If you want to excel at missioning you need to match your damage and defences against the damage the other side puts out and is weak against.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/NPC_Damage_Types

Another option if you like Amarr ships is to go heavy into drones. Going lasers for PVE is a mistake long term.

As far as the Maller not being able to do do L2s??? It should be slow, but it's a tanking beast. An Omen might be a better L2 ship as it has better DPS. I suspect you are fitting it wrong or are fighting the wrong type of ships.

Take a look at the PVE fits on Eve Uni.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Maller
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Omen

PS- You might want to consider mixing up things a bit with exploration or faction warfare.


couple things wrong about this post.

1. Lasers are fine against most factions, just angels you will struggle with. Even guristas/mordus have their secondary resist hole in thermal so pick a thermal heavy crystal and you're good to go.

2. Lasers are one of the best damage systems in the "long term", though I guess it's relative to what you mean by that. If you're talking about level 4 missions, then my point above stands. If we're talking about the high end of pve such as incursions and wormhole space: everything is omni-resist anyway and lasers really beat every other weapon system with hybrids coming in close second.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-01-17 12:50:31 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Solonius Rex wrote:
Deadspace Acclamator wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I had been leaning more toward the confessor anyway.

I know industrial ships are not meant for mining. Hence "afk mining." I park it mining for sixty minutes at a time and go shower, walk the dog, whatever and come back to almost a million isk. A real mining ship would earn more in less time but that isn't the point.


Im certain that even PI is more profitable than that. Have you ever thought of starting it? I find its a decent income maker for new players.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Interaction


PI in hisec isn't massively profitable because most of the planets are heavily farmed as is. You'll make isk that's for sure but you can't pump it for all it's worth because the hotspots get scooped up pretty quick. The secret is to find some backwater cluster in the middle of nowhere's ville with a few mission agents or belts nearby and mine the living crap out of p0, turn it into p1. Once you got a nice stock of p1, export, sell or turn it into p2 materials using a 'factory' plannet (a barrent planet fully fitted out to just turn p1 into p2)


If you go up to T2 or T3 products, its not too bad, even in highsec. Takes a bit of time, but still, not too bad. You can get the relevant skills to 4 in 7-8 days, and then start making things like construction blocks, which only require a single planet.

Its certainly better than afk mining for an hour and getting a mill in profit.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#16 - 2015-01-17 12:59:02 UTC
On AFK mining. My alliance spends a lot of time hunting AFK miners, and ganking and pod killing them. Posts on the forums are one way we select targets. This is New Citizens Q&A so we won't target you based on this post, but be aware that publicly staring you are AFK mining never ends well.

On mission ships. You will get better results in different ships. The Oracle is a hyper specialised ship, great at dealing damage to large ships but poor at surviving it, and the Confessor is very difficult to fly well. I advise looking at the other two Amarr battle cruisers. Both perform better in PVE.

The confessor is something to consider, however, for lowsec PVE.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#17 - 2015-01-17 14:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Oracle isn't actually horribly bad in PvE. I absolutely loathe how repetitive and boring mission running is, so the last time I had to do it for LP or standings for whatever reason, I simply added a Damage Control II to my PvP Oracle and ran some L3 missions by blitzing them, as in killing only the mission objective from maximum range and then warping away to claim my loyalty points and standings. Not all missions can be done by sniping, so you will sometimes have to reject a few, but it still works if you do not want to waste ISK or skill points on setting up a dedicated mission boat.

Here is the kind of sniper Oracle I used back in the day:
[Oracle, Snaip]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Medium Energy Collision Accelerator II
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
[Empty Rig slot]
Aurora L x8
Targeting Range Script x2

Use the microwarpdrive to keep enemies at a range where they can't hit you and set the guns in two different groups and use them to blap the rats. Switch Damage Control II to a thrid Tracking Enhancer for PvP.

For the long run, I strongly recommend moving away from missions towards exploration, nullsec ratting, wormhole PvE, faction warfare or industry for making your ISK.
Deadspace Acclamator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-01-17 15:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Deadspace Acclamator
Solonius Rex wrote:
[quote=Utari Onzo][quote=Solonius Rex][quote=Deadspace Acclamator]If you go up to T2 or T3 products, its not too bad, even in highsec. Takes a bit of time, but still, not too bad. You can get the relevant skills to 4 in 7-8 days, and then start making things like construction blocks, which only require a single planet.

Its certainly better than afk mining for an hour and getting a mill in profit.


I'm sure it is. But you're entirely missing the point. I have started to read up on planetary interaction (while I afk mine) because I had no clue before hand. I have started to train the skills required (while I afk mine). I'm sure it'll eventually be more profitable but until than is it requires more time, isk, and SP than the 30secs to takes to warp and park at an asteroid belt. And directly competes for that time, isk and SP with what I actually want to do with my time in this game.

I know it's risky but that risk is minimized by doing it in a 1 million isk ship with minimal fittings and in random highsec space where people are less likely to look. Obviously it is not a long term plan. It is a stop gap for a noob to make of the most of his time NOT in front of the pc. Doing this twice paid off the investment cost.

@Godfrey thanks for the fitting advice. It looks a lot like my Maller currently.

@All suggesting I learn tracking mechanics: I learned those flying a Maller with focused medium beams.

@Marsan: I never said I couldn't run lvl 2s. I said I (occasionally) get overwhelmed in certain lvl 2s. Some lvl 2s that award 4x the isk of the average lvl 2 I get swarmed by 20 missile firing npc at once. They overwhelm my tank. The rest of the lvls 2 are a cakewalk.

And I am very new to the game. I've three ships total. Worth less isk than I have on hand. I had chosen those two ships not strictly for pve mission running but adequate for the job and viable for other areas of the game I've yet to experience as well. If I had the isk, sure I would buy the perfect mining setup, the perfect pve boat, the perfect lowsec ratter and the perfect pvp boat but I don't. Yet.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-01-17 15:39:02 UTC
tbh.

It is not only cheaper, but also WAY more efficient that if you want to AFK mine, to pick a venture or a mining barge.

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Deadspace Acclamator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-01-17 15:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Deadspace Acclamator
J'Poll wrote:
tbh.

It is not only cheaper, but also WAY more efficient that if you want to AFK mine, to pick a venture or a mining barge.


A venture is 500k isk cheaper. Less than one load of ore in my Iteron. A venture has a 50m3 cargo hold. That would fill up very fast and require much more interaction than parking my Iteron and walking away.

A mining barge costs 25x+ what my Iteron did. And still only has a cargo hold 1/10th the size.

Yes they would make more money in less time but that is not my goal.
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