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Awoxing is no more

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Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#141 - 2015-01-16 14:43:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Crimewatch didn't last from the first red line to the second one; it lasted from the first red line up to now. Why don't you go ahead and extrapolate a trendline that covers that whole period?

Yet another buff to suicide wanking and wrecking mining negated the positive effect of crimewatch.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#142 - 2015-01-16 14:43:49 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.

We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Because CONCORD keeps all the PVPers out of hisec, so you can play in peace with the carebears. If you didn't need the hisec environment, you'd be elsewhere.



Do you hear yourself? They're neg ten, literally everywhere is lowsec for them.

But apparently they hide behind CONCORD? That's absurd.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2015-01-16 14:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Are we still talking about Awoxing is no more ? RIP .However it dosnt change the fact that more likely 75% of your recruits are spies anyway.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#144 - 2015-01-16 14:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Jenn aSide wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:

[quote] What you think is absolutely irrelevant if CCP choose to go in a different direction. They've shown that they are not afraid of losing a handful of bittervets if it brings a big enough benefit, and if they change something you don;t like and you ragequit, they won't care.


Except.

They do care.

A. All the good stories and free publicity that EVE has had over the years (some which included RL news headlines) were by the hands of those veterans.

B. The last time they did NOT listen to their existing playerbase, they had to lay off about 30% of their devs...

Hint: Look up Monocle-gate / Summer of Rage / Jita Riots / Greed-is-Good and you will finally understand.



I'm actually quite sure, that if CCP keeps turning EVE into something that they might as well rename their company to Blizzard 2.0 it will be the end of the game.


The problem is that every other company that tried to become Blizzard 2.0 learned the hard way why that doesn't work. Not a single one of the WoW clones every re-created WoW's success.

It's human nature on display here. Eventually, people forget the lessons of the mistakes of their past, and end up repeating those mistakes. CCP seems to be doing this in slow mottion (slowly moving away from the things that made EVE great in an effort to "expand it's player base" and make more money).

The problem with trying to make more money is that in most cases it results in making less money than before lol.


This.

I know a whole lot of veterans that stopped playing EVE, cause of how CCP is changing it.

They will read into the changes, hoping that CCP pulls their head out of an orifice where no sunlight will ever come and make EVE, EVE again.

And to be honost, I'm seriously in doubt to renew my sub in a couple of months or not...which heavily depends on what CCP is going to do with all the patches. As from track record so far, I'm very disappointed with the "catering of the carebear" attitude of CCP.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#145 - 2015-01-16 14:46:12 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

They don't live in high sec because of the protection, they live there because that's where the kinds of people who "choose to play a video game but can't stand losing in a video game" live. If I were so inclined that's where i'd live full time too.


So you are saying that their motivation is tears, and not any of this educational, curing the hisec bullshit?

Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2015-01-16 14:46:47 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:

[quote] What you think is absolutely irrelevant if CCP choose to go in a different direction. They've shown that they are not afraid of losing a handful of bittervets if it brings a big enough benefit, and if they change something you don;t like and you ragequit, they won't care.


Except.

They do care.

A. All the good stories and free publicity that EVE has had over the years (some which included RL news headlines) were by the hands of those veterans.

B. The last time they did NOT listen to their existing playerbase, they had to lay off about 30% of their devs...

Hint: Look up Monocle-gate / Summer of Rage / Jita Riots / Greed-is-Good and you will finally understand.



I'm actually quite sure, that if CCP keeps turning EVE into something that they might as well rename their company to Blizzard 2.0 it will be the end of the game.


The problem is that every other company that tried to become Blizzard 2.0 learned the hard way why that doesn't work. Not a single one of the WoW clones every re-created WoW's success.

It's human nature on display here. Eventually, people forget the lessons of the mistakes of their past, and end up repeating those mistakes. CCP seems to be doing this in slow mottion (slowly moving away from the things that made EVE great in an effort to "expand it's player base" and make more money).

The problem with trying to make more money is that in most cases it results in making less money than before lol.


This.

I know a whole lot of veterans that stopped playing EVE, cause of how CCP is changing it.

They will read into the changes, hoping that CCP pulls their head out of a orifice where no sunlight will ever come and make EVE, EVE again.
I also noticed More New Players Unless they are vets in Alts Blink

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#147 - 2015-01-16 14:47:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
They said that about Ultima Online, too. Dead inside of a year. And SWG, too.

Turns out the "diverse playerbase" isn't actually a real thing, just an imaginary one.
WoW and FF prove that diverse playerbases can work. See, anyone can pick out a couple of game names as if they prove a point, but the truth is games that fail do so for considerably more reasons than "they tried to appeal to more people".

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Because WoW is the exception, not the rule. Oh, and see the above, there is plenty of precedent as to what happens when you decide to betray your core playerbase to chase theoretical casual players.
LOL. The betrayal! Trying to bring in more players how dare ye! I know of plenty of veteran players that would be perfectly happy with CCP making highsec *completely* safe. Most of nullsec probably wouldn't care in the slightest for a start.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The funny thing is that it's quite the opposite.

They've already demonstrated thrice over that they can't remake the base game anymore. The people who could have done so have long since quit the company.

Unless they have EVE 2.0 waiting in the wings somewhere, the basic framework of the game isn't subject to change. That means that PvE is never going to be anything except shooting red crosses.
Well that's fundamentally wrong. They are already working on replacing old mechanics with new ones. As for shooting red crosses, what those red crosses do make all the difference. And they definitely can change the way they behave, or are you forgetting that burner missions now exist? More varieties of missions, more mission escalations and surprises, mission chains which you have to run as corp, these type of things are not out of reach. The tutorial missions also show they could have missions where you might need to run logi to repair an NPC, or specific modules like webs and points to trigger different events.

To be honest, it's ludicrous to suggest the developers are unable to develop the game, and doubly so to suggest that if the developers were unable to develop their game that it would be opening it up to a more diverse playerbase which would kill the game.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#148 - 2015-01-16 14:48:54 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:


I'm not "crying" for better PVE, I'm stating that PVE also exists and is also a part of the game that needs to be looked at.


AKA crying about it. PVE is fine. I spent all of last night doing some while listening to (honest to God) DISNEY SONGS on EVE Radio.

EVE-Radio, you guys owe me isk for that plug btw.

Quote:

The assumption Kaarous was making is that PVE leads to people leaving and PVP doesn't therefore all focus should go on improving PVP. What I was pointing out is that more player join seeking PVE therefore improving the PVE experience can also be a good thing.


And that is misguided. If people go into an expensive resturant 'seeking' dollar menu items does that mean the expensive resturant should add them to the menu? NO, it means "go to freaking McDonalds you broke mother ******" lol.

Quote:

And no, nobody "belongs" in any game. If they want to play EVE,they can play EVE. If you don't like them because you want everything your way, tough. Go make your own game if you want creative control. In EVE, CCP will make decisions based on what is best for their business even if that means reducing risk, and if you don't like it you know where the biomass button is.


Lol, you're the one who doesn't like current EVE, yet somehow I'm the one who should biomass.

Classic

Quote:

By the way, the truth is that EVE doesn't require much thought so let's put that one to bed. Most activities can be performed almost completely AFK.


This is actually a good example of a misfit in EVE. In the same way that they think EVE pve is bad because it's not 'more interesting, they don't understand that EVE's actual 'gameplay' isn't the part where you need to do the thinking..... The thinking happens before you log in, or before you undock, or before your fleet forms.

This kind of game just isn't for you bro, sorry.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#149 - 2015-01-16 14:49:56 UTC
Solops Crendraven wrote:
I also noticed More New Players Unless they are vets in Alts Blink


I also noted that we never seem to have the 50+ k people online on a Friday afternoon.

And, plenty of trials never get subbed...

Hell, in all honosty, look at people that continue to player after say 2 or 3 months to get a good feel about player retention.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#150 - 2015-01-16 14:50:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.

We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Because CONCORD keeps all the PVPers out of hisec, so you can play in peace with the carebears. If you didn't need the hisec environment, you'd be elsewhere.



Do you hear yourself? They're neg ten, literally everywhere is lowsec for them.

But apparently they hide behind CONCORD? That's absurd.


You can't read? CONCORD keeps the PVPers out of hisec, there's no open-world PVP there. Competent players only come to hisec for shopping, or when they have to travel thru it to reach an engagement. It's a non-issue to operate in hisec as a criminal, as only dangers are other random trespassing PVPers.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#151 - 2015-01-16 14:50:44 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Crimewatch didn't last from the first red line to the second one; it lasted from the first red line up to now. Why don't you go ahead and extrapolate a trendline that covers that whole period?

Yet another buff to suicide wanking and wrecking mining negated the positive effect of crimewatch.

You mean when they massively boosted barge EHP?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#152 - 2015-01-16 14:51:08 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.

We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Because CONCORD keeps all the PVPers out of hisec, so you can play in peace with the carebears. If you didn't need the hisec environment, you'd be elsewhere.

Yeah you are right, ordinary PvPers are afraid of CONCORD and are too bad to do something in Highsec. Only the elite can shed the fear of losing a ship and kill stuff in highsec.

Honestly, they can shoot us, you are obviously missing something here. It sounds like you are talking about something you have no clue about. You should stop that.

Evil RatKid
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#153 - 2015-01-16 14:51:10 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
They said that about Ultima Online, too. Dead inside of a year. And SWG, too.

Turns out the "diverse playerbase" isn't actually a real thing, just an imaginary one.
WoW and FF prove that diverse playerbases can work. .


Let's see.

Blizzard had to make WoW from a sub-based game into P2W, to keep people coming in.Lol

Yeah, solid point you have there.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#154 - 2015-01-16 14:51:36 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

They don't live in high sec because of the protection, they live there because that's where the kinds of people who "choose to play a video game but can't stand losing in a video game" live. If I were so inclined that's where i'd live full time too.


So you are saying that their motivation is tears, and not any of this educational, curing the hisec bullshit?



Of course. You do know that their (tounge in cheek) propaganda (and the anger it generates, such as you just displayed) is kind of the whole point, right?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#155 - 2015-01-16 14:53:06 UTC
If we are to accept the rationale presented by CCP for the implementation of this change, I think we need to stop and look at the bigger picture.

CCP says that awoxing prevents players from joining corporations, remaining in corporations, remaining in the game as an effect of those two, or what else have you. Fine, we can accept this as a valid argument.

But at the same time, we all know for a fact that awoxing pales in comparison with suicide-ganking and wars in the amount of damage caused by volume, yet those two activities have the very same effects on the corporation mechanic (and player retention) as awoxing, except the intensity of their effects is much greater in scope.

If we are to accept the removal of awoxing as a means of combating corporation retention and game retention as a whole, what does is say for the validity and future prospects of suicide-ganking and wars? Removing awoxing, but not removing suicide-ganking and wars would be downright hypocritical on CCP's part.

And then we need to stop and consider whether this is a direction we want to go in, because doing so would make EVE not EVE anymore. EVE is the only EVE on the market, and do we think that it's a wise idea to turn it into a generic, pve-centric MMO in order to compete for players with all the others out there?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#156 - 2015-01-16 14:53:35 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.

We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Because CONCORD keeps all the PVPers out of hisec, so you can play in peace with the carebears. If you didn't need the hisec environment, you'd be elsewhere.



Do you hear yourself? They're neg ten, literally everywhere is lowsec for them.

But apparently they hide behind CONCORD? That's absurd.


You can't read? CONCORD keeps the PVPers out of hisec, there's no open-world PVP there. Competent players only come to hisec for shopping, or when they have to travel thru it to reach an engagement. It's a non-issue to operate in hisec as a criminal, as only dangers are other random trespassing PVPers.



I suggest you go talk to Mr Kane first about that.

He will likely offer to teach you that high-sec has PVP too.

Or look at RvB, last time I checked, they lived in high-sec too.

Or CODE. after all, they gank a mining vessel operated by a player...hence PvP.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#157 - 2015-01-16 14:55:13 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Also Jenn keep in mind, that without all the safety of hisec, players like Kaarous would have no place to go. CODE and the rest of the hisec bears need CONCORD to protect them too.

We are an alliance of -10 chars which can be freely attacked in Highsec without CONCORD interference. Tell me more about how we need CONCORD...


Because CONCORD keeps all the PVPers out of hisec, so you can play in peace with the carebears. If you didn't need the hisec environment, you'd be elsewhere.

Yeah you are right, ordinary PvPers are afraid of CONCORD and are too bad to do something in Highsec. Only the elite can shed the fear of losing a ship and kill stuff in highsec.

Honestly, they can shoot us, you are obviously missing something here. It sounds like you are talking about something you have no clue about. You should stop that.


Erm, lol? PVPers just aren't interested in hisec, there's no fights to be had, simple as that. Everything happens elsewhere.


Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#158 - 2015-01-16 14:57:04 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Erm, lol? PVPers just aren't interested in hisec, there's no fights to be had, simple as that. Everything happens elsewhere.

As a player who predominantly engages in high-sec pvp alongside groups of players of significant size, please don't speak for me, or for my friends.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Shailagh
6Six6Six6Six
#159 - 2015-01-16 14:57:17 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
This is one of the best things happened to EVE ever, and it should have happened a long time ago. ******** hisec faggotry like this has costs far too many subscriptions, and it has to end.

Please fix wardecs and suicide wanking next.



You may keep war decs, just fix grief decs. War decs without grief decs will be completely fine.
Suicide wanking is admittedly not as much broken as grief decs in terms of unfair advantage for the griefer, the problem with it is it's just too easy and too profitable.



Please state the advantages of said griefer corp in dec system...

I will state the 2 INVINCIBLE MECHANICS THE BEARS HAVE... YES INVINCIBLE!

Corp A decs B
Corp B ALL DROPS CORP AND CLOSES IT. 1 MIN LATER THEY REOPEN WITH EXACT SAME NAME. WAR OVER CORP A OUT 50MIL MIN. 0 WARTARGET TIME. ZERO.

Option of invincible wardec evasion bears have number 2
Corp A decs B
Corp B makes alt ceo and either errybody else drops to npcland or to second alt holding corp. Only now active member is station alt ceo holder.
ZERO KILL WARTARGET OPPORTUNITY. CORP A OUT MIN OF 50MILL



Ccp used to say corp dropping for evasuon was sploit, now its kosher.

WARS ARE BROKEN AND IF YOU DIE IN IT U ARE BAD. YOU CAN USE THESE 2 NUKENUKEM GODMODE CHEATA TO NEVER DIE FROM SO CALLED GRIEF DECS.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2015-01-16 14:57:45 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
They said that about Ultima Online, too. Dead inside of a year. And SWG, too.

Turns out the "diverse playerbase" isn't actually a real thing, just an imaginary one.
WoW and FF prove that diverse playerbases can work. .


Let's see.

Blizzard had to make WoW from a sub-based game into P2W, to keep people coming in.Lol

Yeah, solid point you have there.
P2W is actually a Great IdeaAt least i wouldnt have to worry about Awoxing no more.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here