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Awoxing is no more

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#461 - 2015-01-17 03:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
PS: I think CCP is grossly misreading the statistics when they interpret the statistics to mean that encouraging new players to join corporations is the way to increase retention.

They've seen the correlation between "players staying in the game" and "players join player run corporations" and assumed that joining a player corp is the cause, rather than both retention and PC-membership being triggered by something else (such as, for example, "making contact with other players who you like hanging around with".

Putting the new player retention argument aside for a moment, I expect that the outcome of disabling safaris will be a bunch of safari hunters doing an awful lot of crying, and a whole heap of mining corporations gaining an influx of new members. The long term impact on the game will be marginal, especially once the safari hunters realise just how cheap wardecs are against smaller player corporations.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Memphis Baas
#462 - 2015-01-17 05:07:54 UTC
I don't think they're misreading the statistics, it's about the way the game is: players provide the content, CCP just provides sandbox tools. If people log in and then go solo, well then they don't see the content. It's like refusing to talk to ! quest givers in WoW.

Mining corporations are still under pressure from CODE et al, Hulkaggedon events, and war declarations. They may gain new members but mining as a profession won't be much safer. The screenshots or videos of miner deaths may look more epic, though, with the new belt visuals that CCP implemented.

Long term impact of just the Awox change will probably be minimal. I'm sure there are corps that will keep the switch on. However, as this thread shows, everyone seems to be taking this minor change as a sign that CCP is going to make high-sec completely safe. Which there's absolutely no indication that that's the case.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#463 - 2015-01-17 06:16:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
This change eliminates awoxing, period.

Total Bull, Outright Lie.
Awoxing is more than the right to shoot someone without Concord for a start.
It does not remove corp theft.
It does not remove scamming corp mates who trust you because you are a corp mate.
It does not remove convincing them into a duel and abusing them.
It does not remove convincing them to go suspect.
It does not remove luring them into low sec, lighting a cyno for reds and the reds killing them, (As I hear, that's actually the original thing Awox got it's name from).
It does not remove luring them into low sec and killing them yourself.
It does not give protection from PvP in high sec.

The only thing it removes is a loop hole that allowed you to avoid concord while in high sec IF concord would have interfered otherwise.
Quit talking rubbish, your own arguments prove you wrong.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#464 - 2015-01-17 06:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Awoxing is more than the right to shoot someone without Concord for a start.


It is in highsec, which is the only thing this effects.

Corp theft is corp theft.

Scamming is scamming.

Those things are not awoxing. Neither is mission baiting, in case you were going for that next.



Quote:

The only thing it removes is a loop hole that allowed you to avoid concord while in high sec IF concord would have interfered otherwise.


Hey, while we're at it, can we patch out the loop hole that allows you to avoid wardecs when otherwise you'd have to pay for a surrender?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#465 - 2015-01-17 07:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Don Purple
We can still snuggle :D
This change for a time will make targets possibly feel safer.
It will probably transition into more corp thefts over corp killing by the current guys.
I look forward to the change.
It will not stop us.

Don.

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#466 - 2015-01-17 07:27:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Mara Rinn wrote:
If the number of new players retained is greater than the number of old vets quitting because they can't shoot in-corp noobs on safaris in hisec, we win.

If people are going to quit because of a change which doesn't alter their own game play one iota, well they shouldn't let the door hit their arse on the way out.

If you really believe in that line of reasoning, then you might as well call for the total removal of any and all pvp from the game. The ratio of people who don't want pvp, as opposed to those who do, is three to one. Removing pvp, and not just some underhanded methods of doing pvp, but all of it, would make a whole lot of players, including new players, happy.

Mara Rinn wrote:
Putting the new player retention argument aside for a moment, I expect that the outcome of disabling safaris will be a bunch of safari hunters doing an awful lot of crying, and a whole heap of mining corporations gaining an influx of new members. The long term impact on the game will be marginal, especially once the safari hunters realise just how cheap wardecs are against smaller player corporations.

It's a good little scheme that you've got going there. I see what you mean. So basically, after this terrible awoxing goes away, and mean griefers naturally switch to the only remaining method of non-suicidal hostility toward player corporations, we'll have something else to "balance" away.

Memphis Baas wrote:
Long term impact of just the Awox change will probably be minimal. I'm sure there are corps that will keep the switch on. However, as this thread shows, everyone seems to be taking this minor change as a sign that CCP is going to make high-sec completely safe. Which there's absolutely no indication that that's the case.

Right. We should wait until CCP does that, and then cry about it. This would be a good strategy for making sure that only good changes get implemented, and making sure that the game keeps the integrity and core promises that have allowed it to exist for over a decade. Roll

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Total Bull, Outright Lie.
Awoxing is more than the right to shoot someone without Concord for a start.
It does not remove corp theft.
It does not remove scamming corp mates who trust you because you are a corp mate.
It does not remove convincing them into a duel and abusing them.
It does not remove convincing them to go suspect.
It does not remove luring them into low sec, lighting a cyno for reds and the reds killing them, (As I hear, that's actually the original thing Awox got it's name from).
It does not remove luring them into low sec and killing them yourself.

None of those things are "awoxing."

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
It does not give protection from PvP in high sec.

What.

Seriously, listening to these people argue...I'm just speechless. These are the people CCP listens to, with smiles on their faces.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#467 - 2015-01-17 07:28:22 UTC
Don Purple wrote:
We can still snuggle :D
This change for a time will make targets possibly feel safer.
It will probably transition into more corp thefts over corp killing by the current guys.
In the end.
It will not stop us.

Don.

It won't stop us, but stopping us is their intent, so think about the precedent that is being set.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#468 - 2015-01-17 07:37:11 UTC
Don Purple wrote:

It will not stop us.


I should hope not.

Well, some of you are that lame, it's true, but most will adapt. And the game will be a better place for it.

Like every other time there's been a mechanic change, the tears will flow and the threats to leave will fly. But in the end they'll get over their little tantrum and think up new and creative ways to do the things they like to do.

Mr Epeen Cool
Dave Stark
#469 - 2015-01-17 08:14:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aredontis wrote:

No, you still get your play style, you just get the risk that goes along with it


There always was risk. Nothing stopped them from shooting my blinged out Gnosis.

But apparently their being risk averse chickenshits is my fault?



but what did stop them having any remote chance to kill it and escape is the way neutral logi works.

that's all that needed changing, then we wouldn't have hour old characters in gnosises etc being unkillable awoxing machines.
even so, just wait 24hrs and they aren't a problem anyway.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
That's the other thing that irritates me about this. The "solution" doesn't even attempt to address the supposed problem.

You want to know what the major reason that there are too many people in NPC corps instead of player corps? NPC corps are way too beneficial compared to player corps. There are too many benefits, and almost zero negatives. (unless for some reason you love using the busted POS mechanics)

But we're not even going to touch that, no sir. We're going to use an obvious false flag to handwave away something that's been in the game since day 1.


agreed. player corps need a massive overhaul. there's literally 0 reason to join a player corp (other than a 1 man alt corp to avoid a 11% tax rate).
Solecist Project
#470 - 2015-01-17 08:31:58 UTC
Don Purple wrote:
We can still snuggle :D
This change for a time will make targets possibly feel safer.
It will probably transition into more corp thefts over corp killing by the current guys.
I look forward to the change.
It will not stop us.

Don.

*snuggles into your strong arms* :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#471 - 2015-01-17 08:41:56 UTC
Although I'm against this change ...
... if the Don is happy, I am happy!

Eat properly, Don!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#472 - 2015-01-17 08:56:01 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
If the number of new players retained is greater than the number of old vets quitting because they can't shoot in-corp noobs on safaris in hisec, we win.

If people are going to quit because of a change which doesn't alter their own game play one iota, well they shouldn't let the door hit their arse on the way out.

If you really believe in that line of reasoning, then you might as well call for the total removal of any and all pvp from the game. The ratio of people who don't want pvp, as opposed to those who do, is three to one. Removing pvp, and not just some underhanded methods of doing pvp, but all of it, would make a whole lot of players, including new players, happy.


How long can you take the risk of PVP away from a PVP game before people become completely bored with it? There's no PVE to fill their boring, hollow little lives with.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Right. We should wait until CCP does that, and then cry about it. This would be a good strategy for making sure that only good changes get implemented, and making sure that the game keeps the integrity and core promises that have allowed it to exist for over a decade. Roll


I prefer complaining about the things that matter, not the things that my tin foil hat tells me are going to destroy the world.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dave Stark
#473 - 2015-01-17 09:09:50 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
I prefer complaining about the things that matter, not the things that my tin foil hat tells me are going to destroy the world.


when that's what you do in the game, then it does matter.
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#474 - 2015-01-17 09:18:06 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Don Purple wrote:
We can still snuggle :D
This change for a time will make targets possibly feel safer.
It will probably transition into more corp thefts over corp killing by the current guys.
I look forward to the change.
It will not stop us.

Don.

*snuggles into your strong arms* :)


\o/
Steam filled forum snuggling is a go!
**** it snuggles for everyone come here DAVE!

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#475 - 2015-01-17 09:47:49 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If you really believe in that line of reasoning, then you might as well call for the total removal of any and all pvp from the game. The ratio of people who don't want pvp, as opposed to those who do, is three to one. Removing pvp, and not just some underhanded methods of doing pvp, but all of it, would make a whole lot of players, including new players, happy.


How long can you take the risk of PVP away from a PVP game before people become completely bored with it? There's no PVE to fill their boring, hollow little lives with.

Does that matter? The dominant opinion is that nonconsensual pvp should be done away with. This is so not just for EVE, but for any game with nonconsensual pvp out there. Like I said earlier in this thread, read the forums of any survival game, as that genre is the last bastion of nonconsensual pvp elements out there.

When I said "remove pvp from EVE," I of course don't mean that these people would advocate turning it off entirely. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to relegate it to an opt-in, arena-like event system so that all the "pvpers" can "have their fun" without "affecting the gameplay of others."

Mara Rinn wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Right. We should wait until CCP does that, and then cry about it. This would be a good strategy for making sure that only good changes get implemented, and making sure that the game keeps the integrity and core promises that have allowed it to exist for over a decade. Roll


I prefer complaining about the things that matter, not the things that my tin foil hat tells me are going to destroy the world.

No, you prefer complaining about the things that are important to you, just like everyone else, including myself. To claim otherwise is hypocritical, and to claim that only things that matter are things that are important to you is downright delusional.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#476 - 2015-01-17 10:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
The Question Of The day Will Players Of Eve Online Really Miss Awoxers?? And will it suck?Imean it really only affects a small % of already a small Fanbase Its not like a New Bro can Fly a Cap or a Bling ship or will even stay long enough to even want too whats really re8arded is Why would I want to pay for a $3500 for A Titan anyway(Unfortunately Likely One day I will) to only get Awoxed by my own corp that recruited me.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Solecist Project
#477 - 2015-01-17 10:15:27 UTC
Solops Crendraven wrote:
The Question Of The day Will Players Of Eve Online Really Miss Awoxers?? And will it suck?Imean it really only affects a small % of already a small Fanbase Its not like a New Bro can Fly a Cap or a Bling ship or will even stay long enough to even want too whats really re8arded is Why would I want to pay for a $3500 for A Titan anyway(Unfortunately Likely One day I will) to only get Awoxed by my own corp that recruited me.

Masterr?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#478 - 2015-01-17 11:04:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Quote:

But tell me again why tear harvesting is a desirable game feature? If someone enjoys carebearing, why is it important to ruin that enjoyment? Is the pleasure a ganker gets from the tears something worth nurturing and cherishing?


THERE it is. If you talk to someone long enough, the underlying thinking and motivation will show up.

EVE mimics real life in that it doesn't matter what you 'want', it matters what you can ENFORCE. I enjoy 'carebearing' I play multiple types of PVE (missions, incursions, 0.0 ratting and plexing, lvl 5 missions and other things, hell i used to farm COSMOS sites). I do these things despite the fact that people want to make my ships explode. For the REAL EVE PVE player, learning how to keep people from making you explode while you gather riches Indiana Jones Styles IS the game.
 They are free to come at me (bro), i am free to PVE while dodging them and still make isk.

The fact that some dude wants to come in to EVE and ignore everyone else while also having an affect on everyone else (every unit of ore they mine lessens the value of everyone else's ore) doesn't mean the game works that way. The thing that i despise about such people is that rather than learn how to exist in the current system, they try to 'metagame' CCP into eliminating opposing playstyles. That's weak. I don't need CCP to beat gankers and Awoxxers for me, I do that on my own all day.

While you may not realize it, what you just asked was "Why is FREEDOM in a sandbox game a desirable game feature?".


Wrong, it isn't my thinking, it was the motive for awoxing that you brought up. I asked why does that motive deserve cherishing in your opinion. Is it good for marketing? Is this how EVE grows? This is what you avoided answering, instead going on a pointless tangent on your PVE.

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#479 - 2015-01-17 11:16:30 UTC
Good, now people can finally join corporations which we can then wardec Pirate
Dave Stark
#480 - 2015-01-17 11:32:45 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Good, now people can finally join corporations which we can then wardec Pirate


which will then be folded and reformed before the war even starts.

so you can war dec them, but you won't get to actually shoot at them (without concord intervention)