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Nestor need some love.

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Ichtys kuromitsu
Fit me I'm famous
#41 - 2015-02-07 16:06:13 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
Like i said...

I've used them AS IS with no problems, up to and including 3vsServering the entirety of SISI and WINNING until they dropped around 17 dreadnaughts on us...

3 large t2 caplinks, 3 large t2 remreps and a utility high

MWD cap Boosters Eccm web scram

Brick armor tank...

They dont work at "press f1 to function as a fleet member" docterine level but they are UNSTOPPABLE MURDERMACHINES in smaller numbers, especially now you can refit those highs and mids for whatever you're fighting and refit tank on the fly...



I don't deny it. Well i'm blind ahah my bad for the refit on the fly ... =D

Welll, thank's and fly safe !
Victoria Ramsay
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-02-07 16:57:52 UTC
I still liked the idea that was thrown around of the Nestor having blops capability rather than serving as an enormous/super expensive logi ship. For the price of a nestor, you're better off using triage - which is dirt cheap nowadays....
Lugh Crow-Slave
#43 - 2015-02-07 17:25:17 UTC
Victoria Ramsay wrote:
I still liked the idea that was thrown around of the Nestor having blops capability rather than serving as an enormous/super expensive logi ship. For the price of a nestor, you're better off using triage - which is dirt cheap nowadays....



triage can't enter HS or C4 and lower WHs also the price is do to there being a higher profit in the stratios so there are few people who run SOE to sell the nestor and has nothing to do with ship balancing

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#44 - 2015-02-07 17:52:51 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


I expected an outlier to come and how us how fail we all are. So how many 10s of billions of ISK do you make per second?


Well, all of them. Duh!

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Victoria Ramsay
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-02-07 19:56:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Ramsay
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Victoria Ramsay wrote:
I still liked the idea that was thrown around of the Nestor having blops capability rather than serving as an enormous/super expensive logi ship. For the price of a nestor, you're better off using triage - which is dirt cheap nowadays....



triage can't enter HS or C4 and lower WHs also the price is do to there being a higher profit in the stratios so there are few people who run SOE to sell the nestor and has nothing to do with ship balancing


Fair enough there - but then, even so, why use a one billion isk battleship rather than for example a couple of guardians?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#46 - 2015-02-07 20:04:55 UTC
Victoria Ramsay wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Victoria Ramsay wrote:
I still liked the idea that was thrown around of the Nestor having blops capability rather than serving as an enormous/super expensive logi ship. For the price of a nestor, you're better off using triage - which is dirt cheap nowadays....



triage can't enter HS or C4 and lower WHs also the price is do to there being a higher profit in the stratios so there are few people who run SOE to sell the nestor and has nothing to do with ship balancing


Fair enough there - but then, even so, why use a one billion isk battleship rather than for example a couple of guardians?


again cost is not a factor when discussing ship balancing



but as to why use a nestor i can think of three reasons of the top of my head


A.) you don't have the pilots to field a few extra guardians

B.) the refit ability can be very strong particularly when in a T3 fleet

C.) it can also provide a fair deal of DPS even if you give up all its highs to logi/cap trans

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Victoria Ramsay
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-02-08 21:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Ramsay
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Victoria Ramsay wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Victoria Ramsay wrote:
I still liked the idea that was thrown around of the Nestor having blops capability rather than serving as an enormous/super expensive logi ship. For the price of a nestor, you're better off using triage - which is dirt cheap nowadays....



triage can't enter HS or C4 and lower WHs also the price is do to there being a higher profit in the stratios so there are few people who run SOE to sell the nestor and has nothing to do with ship balancing


Fair enough there - but then, even so, why use a one billion isk battleship rather than for example a couple of guardians?


again cost is not a factor when discussing ship balancing



but as to why use a nestor i can think of three reasons of the top of my head


A.) you don't have the pilots to field a few extra guardians

B.) the refit ability can be very strong particularly when in a T3 fleet

C.) it can also provide a fair deal of DPS even if you give up all its highs to logi/cap trans


Fair enough, I can see those being decent reasons. However still - I would not field a one billion isk ship for logi under any circumstance. Guardians/Oneiros' don't take that much in terms of SP to fly. For a hisec war, two pilots is probably more than enough. And for low/null - you can easily use triage instead, which isn't much more expensive (and yes, cost IS an issue in balancing, it affects choices in which ships to field unless your SRP has infinitely deep pockets).

Refitting in space is nice. However still - I'd stand by my statement that for the cost of the Nestor, it would make more sense as a faction blop. This would also be in line with the other SOE ships - none of which are logi, and all of which are covops.

I see where you are coming from - but at the moment Nestors are very rarely seen in use, which is itself evidence enough that the reasons you've listed are probably not working for it (despite the fact that it seems like they should in theory).
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#48 - 2015-02-08 22:19:19 UTC
Things where a Nestor is kinda gud:

-AT Flagship
-Wormholes where you can't bring carriers


Things where Carriers are better than the Nestor in everything a Nestor could do, and then some more:

-Everything else (Yeah, even in ISK/performance)
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2015-02-10 00:59:20 UTC
Just needs BLOPS-ability...

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Lugh Crow-Slave
#50 - 2015-02-10 05:06:11 UTC
Victoria Ramsay wrote:
(and yes, cost IS an issue in balancing, it affects choices in which ships to field unless your SRP has infinitely deep pockets).



CCP has little control over cost and as such they do not use it as a balancing factor the parts that affect cost that they do have control over (such as lp) is in the same range as that of the other Faction battle ships



the reason it is so high is do to low supply as people running SOE missions opt to go for the cruiser to buy and sell as it is a better exchange rate for their LP do to the high demand of the stratios

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2015-02-10 08:35:55 UTC
I do vote for more love to Nestor!

A perfect design i think NASA and ESA should take this design for a ship which is going to explore Solar System.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-02-10 09:51:25 UTC
Victoria Ramsay wrote:

Fair enough, I can see those being decent reasons. However still - I would not field a one billion isk ship for logi under any circumstance. Guardians/Oneiros' don't take that much in terms of SP to fly. For a hisec war, two pilots is probably more than enough. And for low/null - you can easily use triage instead, which isn't much more expensive (and yes, cost IS an issue in balancing, it affects choices in which ships to field unless your SRP has infinitely deep pockets).

Refitting in space is nice. However still - I'd stand by my statement that for the cost of the Nestor, it would make more sense as a faction blop. This would also be in line with the other SOE ships - none of which are logi, and all of which are covops.

I see where you are coming from - but at the moment Nestors are very rarely seen in use, which is itself evidence enough that the reasons you've listed are probably not working for it (despite the fact that it seems like they should in theory).


No, cost is not a concern when balancing ships. Cost is an issue when designing fleet compositions. Former is a developer action, latter is a player action.
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