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Crime & Punishment

 
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Wardeccers cost me my corp/alliance membership, need advice
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Kane Ceres
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2015-01-20 21:03:12 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Rein Chelien wrote:

Awoxxing and wars are completely different things. There are several flaws here:

- When I was in a 1 man corp, I interacted with nobody else in the game. It was 24x7 PVE grind and it was boring as hell.
- Most corps are not created principally to attract wardecs, but to avoid taxes and share resources.
- When you join a multi-person corp, you are by definition increasing the interactions that you have with other players.
- When your corp is decc'ed you are by definition increasing the interactions that you have with other players.

Have you ever actually stayed under a wardec for any length of time Veers?


No, he doesn't believe in it. He thinks he should be allowed to make isk safely without risk or consequence. He thinks that CCP should be responsible for the safety of his and every carebears ship.



They should make creating a corp cost more than a one week war dec. At least that way it would cost the war dec evaders like Veers actually have to pay a little cash when they are trying to hide from PVP.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#162 - 2015-01-21 05:43:40 UTC
Rein Chelien wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Catalytic morphisis wrote:


You honestly think you can speak for CCP? Give me a single piece of CCP documentation which states any slight hint at all to this, Otherwise stop spouting absolute ****


First thing is to calm down dude....new order agents should not lose their cool. Here is CCP Fozzie in the CSM 9 minutes "CCP Fozzie - In a game where it is important to get people to interact with other people we have a situation where if your ISK is not made from bounties and you do not need the extra features of a corporation that the optimum choice in all circumstances is not to play with other people. We don't want it to be this way."

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM9Summer_Minutes_2014.pdf

This was in reference to Awoxxing...but the same applies to wars...they make it better to simply be in a 1 man/npc corp, and discourage player interaction. They are, quite simply, bad for the game. In past CSM minutes many have advocated getting rid of wardeccs entirely. Feel free to do some of your own research.


Awoxxing and wars are completely different things. There are several flaws here:

- When I was in a 1 man corp, I interacted with nobody else in the game. It was 24x7 PVE grind and it was boring as hell.
- Most corps are not created principally to attract wardecs, but to avoid taxes and share resources.
- When you join a multi-person corp, you are by definition increasing the interactions that you have with other players.
- When your corp is decc'ed you are by definition increasing the interactions that you have with other players.

Have you ever actually stayed under a wardec for any length of time Veers?


Why on earth would I stay in a wardecc? If I wanted PvP I'd go to lowsec.

All your decc stuff is cute, but fundamentally a lot of people in highsec don't want to engage in PvP. They are there to make isk doing collaborative PvE. And all the wardecc mechanics do is get them to sit in 1 man or NPC corps, which causes even less social interaction. The system is hopelessly broken...and highsec wars are a complete failure.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#163 - 2015-01-21 05:45:23 UTC
Kane Ceres wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:
Rein Chelien wrote:

Awoxxing and wars are completely different things. There are several flaws here:

- When I was in a 1 man corp, I interacted with nobody else in the game. It was 24x7 PVE grind and it was boring as hell.
- Most corps are not created principally to attract wardecs, but to avoid taxes and share resources.
- When you join a multi-person corp, you are by definition increasing the interactions that you have with other players.
- When your corp is decc'ed you are by definition increasing the interactions that you have with other players.

Have you ever actually stayed under a wardec for any length of time Veers?


No, he doesn't believe in it. He thinks he should be allowed to make isk safely without risk or consequence. He thinks that CCP should be responsible for the safety of his and every carebears ship.



They should make creating a corp cost more than a one week war dec. At least that way it would cost the war dec evaders like Veers actually have to pay a little cash when they are trying to hide from PVP.


And then what? People would just do a cost benefit analysis...and if the cost of rolling corps got high enough they would just eat the 11% npc corp taxes. Big accomplishment.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2015-01-22 19:54:24 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Why on earth would I stay in a wardecc? If I wanted PvP I'd go to lowsec.

All your decc stuff is cute, but fundamentally a lot of people in highsec don't want to engage in PvP. They are there to make isk doing collaborative PvE. And all the wardecc mechanics do is get them to sit in 1 man or NPC corps, which causes even less social interaction. The system is hopelessly broken...and highsec wars are a complete failure.


Why on earth are you staying in Eve online? If you wanted to PVE without any risk of PVP, ever, you should go to Star Trek Online.

The fact of the matter is, it doesnt matter if you want to PVP or not. Eve isnt a game where, if you choose to, you can do something in 100% safety without any risk whatsoever that you will be destroyed or have your day ruined by another player. If you want a pure PVE experience, I suggest you play Star trek online or WoW PVE server or something. Otherwise, sorry, but this is Eve.

I understand that a lot of people dont want to engage in hisec PVP. But what they want or dont want, has no impact on what will actually be the case.

And even if we ignore the fact that sitting in an NPC corp or one man corp does not prevent you from social interaction, at all, and never has or will be, as people can be friends and fleet up together while belonging to completely different corporations, and that this is the entire reason why we can set players and corporations to blue standing, so that you can interact with other people who belong in completely different corps, this is the price of a player owned corp. There are both risks and rewards to being in a player owned corp. You dont really seem to understand the core mechanics of EVE. Everything that provides benefit and is worth doing, also provides risk. Player owned corporations provide many benefits, but also a proportionate amount of risk is attached to it. Wardecs are part of that.

You want to be able to set taxes to 0% so that you get all the profit from your endeavors? You want to set up Mining Poses to make more isk? you want to be able to move isk and distribute isk and ships/modules with greater ease? Join/create your own player corp. But with that ease, with that reliability, increased profit, etc, comes risks.
Whittorical Quandary
Amarrian Infinity
#165 - 2015-01-23 22:29:09 UTC
I was looking at some of the mass wardec corps' war summaries recently and it seems that one of the biggest problems may be that non combat industry players and corps do little to no pvp, rarely even attempt it. (I am guilty of this)

If a few players from each corp in the 30+ corps that are wardec'd were to pvp, i think griefdecs would not be near as prevalent as it would be an acutual risk to fight in each one. If you look at the kills in each war, it can easily be a ratio of 500mil-1+bil industry/mission ships (0 pvp ships) destroyed by wardec corp vs 0 destroyed ships of the defender.

I feel that there is a great need to bring more indy players into the pvp arena. How things are now, i don't see anything changing.


For me, if it were faster to switch jump clones (ie: 12 hour base timer) i would be much more drawn to pvp as my main issue is the amount of indy/skill implants i have and the 20+ hour wait forces me to be stuck doing one role or the other for a day and a half, when i really just want to do icombat on occasion. The recent clone upgrade change does make it more appealing.
(or you can berate me and at some point i will eventually just "do it" XD )

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine."

— Abraham Lincoln
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#166 - 2015-01-23 23:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Whittorical Quandary wrote:

If a few players from each corp in the 30+ corps that are wardec'd were to pvp, i think griefdecs would not be near as prevalent as it would be an acutual risk to fight in each one. If you look at the kills in each war, it can easily be a ratio of 500mil-1+bil industry/mission ships (0 pvp ships) destroyed by wardec corp vs 0 destroyed ships of the defender.

I feel that there is a great need to bring more indy players into the pvp arena. How things are now, i don't see anything changing.

Actually, what you described is exactly how a lot of industry players end moving up to corporations in nullsec and wormholes, which tends to happen as soon as they begin to learn more about the game. Very few have any reason to stay in the corp they are in when they first get a taste of blood. Instead, they graduate from highsec. The real reason why no one fights in these corporations is that everyone who learns to fight leaves them very quickly.

The real problem in your scenario is either how to keep these people in the highsec industry corps they emerge from, or how to catalyze more players to emerge from their conflict-avoiding shells.

I don't think the players who learn to fight should be kept in highsec corporations, except as educators for highsec carebear larvae who have not yet pupated and flown away as beautiful EVE playing butterflies.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#167 - 2015-01-24 02:35:52 UTC
You're mad you lost one ship to Marmite?

Do you know how many Asteros and pods I lost to them?

Don't fly a 2/3 billion ISK ship that will bankrupt you in a single shot! Why not jump in a 30m bomber and go cause some chaos instead?

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Posadas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2015-02-21 21:38:20 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
[quote=Posadas][quote=Darian Frost]

So, in 6 months, we will see you again, crying about the next thing as you still have little knowledge about the game.



No you won't.

This game is ****. I'm done, you're welcome to it.

I had more fun in the 2 days I spent smashing all my ships to pieces for lulz than I did in the 6months or so I had playing the game for real before it.

That's a sign of a broken game.

Anyone who things otherwise is kidding themselves.

Anyone interested in buying this character off me at a very very cheap price PM me and we'll work something out.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#169 - 2015-02-21 21:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Heart
Posadas wrote:
This game is ****. I'm done, you're welcome to it.


Any stuff left? Can I have it please? Smile

[edit] I am also currently at war with marmite maybe I can get them back for you?
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2015-02-21 22:36:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Solonius Rex
Posadas wrote:


No you won't.

This game is ****. I'm done, you're welcome to it.

I had more fun in the 2 days I spent smashing all my ships to pieces for lulz than I did in the 6months or so I had playing the game for real before it.

That's a sign of a broken game.

Anyone who things otherwise is kidding themselves.

Anyone interested in buying this character off me at a very very cheap price PM me and we'll work something out.


The game isnt broken. Your common sense, is. If you enjoyed the past 2 days smashing your ships, maybe its a sign that you shouldve been out there PVPing, smashing other peoples ships as well as your own, instead of PVEing all day pew pewing NPC ships and safely warping off with no consequences and lose a megathron to a wardec in the most idiotic way possible.

You played the game in a way that you thought was boring and a sh*tty experience, while ending up having fun playing the game in a different way. And now that youve found a way to enjoy the game, youre leaving because youre not enjoying the game anymore.

The game wasnt broken.

You were.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#171 - 2015-02-21 22:50:15 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Rein Chelien wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Catalytic morphisis wrote:


You honestly think you can speak for CCP? Give me a single piece of CCP documentation which states any slight hint at all to this, Otherwise stop spouting absolute ****


First thing is to calm down dude....new order agents should not lose their cool. Here is CCP Fozzie in the CSM 9 minutes "CCP Fozzie - In a game where it is important to get people to interact with other people we have a situation where if your ISK is not made from bounties and you do not need the extra features of a corporation that the optimum choice in all circumstances is not to play with other people. We don't want it to be this way."

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM9Summer_Minutes_2014.pdf

This was in reference to Awoxxing...but the same applies to wars...they make it better to simply be in a 1 man/npc corp, and discourage player interaction. They are, quite simply, bad for the game. In past CSM minutes many have advocated getting rid of wardeccs entirely. Feel free to do some of your own research.


Awoxxing and wars are completely different things. There are several flaws here:

- When I was in a 1 man corp, I interacted with nobody else in the game. It was 24x7 PVE grind and it was boring as hell.
- Most corps are not created principally to attract wardecs, but to avoid taxes and share resources.
- When you join a multi-person corp, you are by definition increasing the interactions that you have with other players.
- When your corp is decc'ed you are by definition increasing the interactions that you have with other players.

Have you ever actually stayed under a wardec for any length of time Veers?


Why on earth would I stay in a wardecc?



Because you came to play this game for the right reasons rather than coming here and demanding that your man-baby mentality is catered to?
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#172 - 2015-02-21 23:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Posadas wrote:
I had more fun in the 2 days I spent smashing all my ships to pieces for lulz than I did in the 6months or so I had playing the game for real before it.

You finally get it then. Destroying ships is the fun part of EVE.

Veers Belvar wrote:
All your decc stuff is cute, but fundamentally a lot of people in highsec don't want to engage in PvP. They are there to make isk doing collaborative PvE. And all the wardecc mechanics do is get them to sit in 1 man or NPC corps, which causes even less social interaction. The system is hopelessly broken...and highsec wars are a complete failure.

They really are not. How are you determining this? Whatever your sample size is it is small when compared to the amount of wardecs that occur in highsec.

There are In fact corps in highsec that brawl with other highsec corps for resources. It happens more often than you may think. There are other uses too like wormhole corps that wardec each other to limit their ability to restock and organize through highsec.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#173 - 2015-02-21 23:56:02 UTC
Posadas wrote:
No you won't.

This game is ****. I'm done, you're welcome to it.

I had more fun in the 2 days I spent smashing all my ships to pieces for lulz than I did in the 6months or so I had playing the game for real before it.

That's a sign of a broken game.

Anyone who things otherwise is kidding themselves.
Nope, just because you don't find a game to be fun doesn't mean it's broken.

Quote:
Anyone interested in buying this character off me at a very very cheap price PM me and we'll work something out.
You should give it away, you can only sell it for isk and as you're buggering off anyway that'll be no use to you; not that anybody would want it anyway, the stench of butthurt tends to linger for a long long time.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Charlie Jacobson
#174 - 2015-02-22 00:13:03 UTC
Hey, I remember this thread. Good times. Well done necroing it, Posadas.

I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#175 - 2015-02-22 05:26:07 UTC
Posadas wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
[quote=Posadas][quote=Darian Frost]

So, in 6 months, we will see you again, crying about the next thing as you still have little knowledge about the game.



No you won't.

This game is ****. I'm done, you're welcome to it.

I had more fun in the 2 days I spent smashing all my ships to pieces for lulz than I did in the 6months or so I had playing the game for real before it.

That's a sign of a broken game.

Anyone who things otherwise is kidding themselves.

Anyone interested in buying this character off me at a very very cheap price PM me and we'll work something out.

Since you are leaving and have no need for the isk anyway, how about you just give it away or barring that, biomass.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#176 - 2015-02-22 07:41:58 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:


They really are not. How are you determining this? Whatever your sample size is it is small when compared to the amount of wardecs that occur in highsec.

There are In fact corps in highsec that brawl with other highsec corps for resources. It happens more often than you may think. There are other uses too like wormhole corps that wardec each other to limit their ability to restock and organize through highsec.


Not sure what you are trying to say. Are there people who want to PvP in highsec? Sure. But there are masses of people who have no interest in that, and there is no reason for game mechanics to force them into it through broken and one sided wars.
Aldeskwatso
Primus Societas
Crimson Interstellar Alliance
#177 - 2015-02-22 11:55:24 UTC
Posadas wrote:
my point is how come the game forces people to engage in this tedious grind of hi-sec mission running for ISK, standing, etc but then also includes a mechanic which means that Wardeccers can destroy you whilst you do this unwelcome grind on a total whim?


This is what it boils down to.

You don't seem to know how to bank the activities you want to engage in or what it takes to do this. As a result you grind ISK for a while, get the **** you think you need in order to do what you want, then lose it all again and go back to grinding ISK. It's one way of going about your business but ya, it kinda sucks imo.

Most people I know at least do 1 of 3 things.
Fund themselves with selling PLEX on the market.
Have an industry/trade/pi alt that covers generating income for their main.
Between ops etc. kill rats, run complexes and sites etc.

Add to these maintaining a buffer to cover losses and not fly what you can't afford to lose and you be golden. Done right you can be building up billions a month.

Instead of blaming the game you should really blame yourself and your corp for not teaching you. But since you mostly focus on the negative and what they do wrong I suspect you are mostly to blame.

Find a small corp willing to teach you these things and you'll be back on your feet in no time.

The biggest obstacle you'll encounter doing anything is yourself.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#178 - 2015-02-22 14:49:28 UTC
OP contact me in game and I will give you some advice and help.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#179 - 2015-02-22 18:15:26 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:


They really are not. How are you determining this? Whatever your sample size is it is small when compared to the amount of wardecs that occur in highsec.

There are In fact corps in highsec that brawl with other highsec corps for resources. It happens more often than you may think. There are other uses too like wormhole corps that wardec each other to limit their ability to restock and organize through highsec.


Not sure what you are trying to say. Are there people who want to PvP in highsec? Sure. But there are masses of people who have no interest in that, and there is no reason for game mechanics to force them into it through broken and one sided wars.



Sooo...people want to play a PvP based game without being forced to engage in PvP? That's one of the most moronic arguments I've seen in a while.

By the way, are you the pastey guy that wears funny hats?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#180 - 2015-02-22 18:38:38 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:



Sooo...people want to play a PvP based game without being forced to engage in PvP? That's one of the most moronic arguments I've seen in a while.

By the way, are you the pastey guy that wears funny hats?


People who CHOOSE to play in highsec, where ILLEGAL aggression is met with a law enforcement response, are looking to enjoy the PvE part of Eve, and not engage in direct ship to ship combat. If you WANT PvP GO to NULLSEC. Fact is a lot of our "elite PvP" players fear actual low/null PvP, and just want an easy slaughter of PvE players.

And not, I'm not pastey, nor do I wear hats.