Crime & Punishment

As a wardec predator myself, let's dissect the errors here. Some newbie might learn something, who knows, maybe the OP might too.


First, you were flying a Navy Megathron - a ship that is much more expensive than a standard Megathron but that only offers a small performance boost. As such, I would immediately conclude 'rich pickings'. I started as a PVE player, but did not use a ship more expensive than a tech 2 fitted Dominix for quite a considerable time.

Secondly, you were carrying out PVE activities during a war. This isn't a death sentence if you do them carefully, but you need to be in agile ships. A Deimos or Proteus costs less than a Navythron, and is much easier to escape a trap in. Both of those ships are capable of doing level 4 missions (if that is your thing).

Thirdly, you are using tech 1 guns despite tech 2 ones being *so much better*. Not unforgivable on a tech 1 battleship (that's a pretty sensible step for a rookie) but a very poor move on an expensive ship.

Fourth, you are mixing active and buffer tanking. Missions pretty much require an active tank (exceptions are rare), and that plate is doing almost nothing for you.

Fifth, you were killed by a Cynabal. You would have had ample warning of a hostile in local - even if it had a neutral prober, a Cynabal would have taken at least a minute to warp to your mission pocket then warp to you through one or more acceleration gates.

Sixth, you had invested too much effort in amplifying drone damage in your fit.


There. You just learned six expensive lessons. Recover, then, if you desire it, seek revenge. It's the EVE way. Or, as CCP put it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

Wow. This thread 1/2 OP stating his world view, and then defending his precious world view against constant and unassailably logical arguments as to why the problem is his own perception and choices, and not the game.

Let me give it a try. First, some "culture":



The Road Not Taken - Robert Frost

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.



(I underlined the important parts for this discussion. You're welcome)

So this famous poet figured out over a hundred years ago that in life, wherever you end up, its completely the unintended consequence of your choices. You can look down the road, but you really can't foresee which choices will you make today will tomorrow end in tears, and which will end in tears of happiness.

Now Eve is special because you can live multiple lives via alts. But even there, each gets to tread the path only once. Sometimes their particular path comes full circle and you get to choose another (or repeat your footsteps down the same path), and sometimes you see an intersection of choice only once.

So you made some choices and are not happy with the destination you have arrived at. Instead of introspection, you're blaming the game and the game mechanics. This is the same as going on a road trip and, without a map, hoping to end up in Disneyland but instead ending up in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And then blaming the Dept. of Public Works for building a road system that leads everywhere instead of a straight line to where you'd dreamed.

People have given many examples of ways you could have done things better and you have dismissed them all with fallacies and "oh, that wouldn't work because of X". Let me give you two examples off the top of my head:

#1: WingspanTT
This guy learned on day three of his free trial that there was a ship called a "Stealth Bomber" in the game. He looked at it and decided that that appealed to him and he would go do that. He never finished the tutorial missions (and it shows in his early videos, always with hilarious results) but rather "took the path less travelled"... and then recorded and upload everything to Youtube, becoming Eve famous and obviously have a fantastic time with his "Torpedo Delivery Service".

#2: Cannibal Kane
You've come to C&P and don't seem to realise the sort of attention you have called upon yourself (again, by your own actions and choices).

This fair gentleman is famous/infamous for having declared that he will only ever pay for the the mods and ships he uses off the literal corpses and wrecks of his victims. He has stated more than once that he has little or no interest in parts of Eve that are not pvp-related (he tried writing a blog once but gave it up, much to my sorrow). From that, when they decided to interview "famous figures in Eve" (I think it was on Evenews24), he was the first to be interviewed. That says a lot for someone who has taken a self-imposed narrow road and elevated a particular aspect of Eve to near-high art.



By the way, if this was said to me I'd be very much afraid, and with good reason. Its the same as the Devil himself taking particular interest in the life of one particular ant...

To sum up (and reiterate what has been said many, many times already in this post) buck up and stop blaming others/the game for your perceived failures. All your problems can be found in the mirror.

Also, good luck with the unintended results of your choice to post this topic in C&S. I suspect you're really going to need it.

Oh god you pretentious fool, do you think and dream in CCP marketing-talk as well as post in them?



This is ridiculous. What are you some kind of life coach? Who speaks in entirely inane platitudes? Can we stick to the discussion at hand rather than your deep poetry and astonishing level of insight you've gleamed from it?

Here's a tip for you - rather than garnish your point with utterly irrelevant and pretentious crap just say what you need to say and do it without resorting to this sort of rubbish. It smacks of insecurity if nothing else and it's not exactly on topic. Here's another saying from a famous poet - "brevity is the soul of wit" (you might have to google it though...)



That's beacuse in this instance being compelled to follow the game mechanics (grinding missions of ISK/Standing) is what led to me being in hi-sec in the first place. All the moralistic and prentious stuff about the road less travelled and so on might sound insightful in your head, but to me it's irrelevent. It was the game mechanics (with a dash of bad luck of course) that led this game being over for me, and having read all the points given to me and learned what I can from the serious replies, if I could go back in time I'd do it all over again - because the choice I had was a) die in hi-sec or b) rot in nullsec.



You seriously are kiling this metaphor y'know. This is pure cringe.

[quote=Mount SumacoPeople have given many examples of ways you could have done things better and you have dismissed them all with fallacies and "oh, that wouldn't work because of X". Let me give you two examples off the top of my head:[/quote]

Which fallacies? Name them. And "oh that wouldn't work because of X" happens to be correct in my case. Perhaps spending a moment to consider the situation I was in, rather than boring me to tears with your faded memories of high-school english literature and other such banalities.

What has this got to do with me being unable to participate in nullsec PvP due to a badly thought out game mechanic?

Again, this might be the sort of thing that lifts your spirit and your soul, but to me it looks like a digression to obfuscate the fact you can't actually make any sort of defence for your beloved game.

All I see here is immature fanboys rushing to defend their game from criticism based on my actual experience (not PR spiel that has little or no resemblence to the game I've spent 6 months playing) with the occasional thoughtful post thrown in by someone trying to be helpful.



Is that meant to be some kind of a threat? pmsl could you go into more detail pls? This should be funny.



*tips fedora* M'lady



Why? Would could he possibly do to me? Destroy my ships? Well I don't have many left so good luck to him on that one.



Unfortunately though badly thought out game mechanics that ended up restricting me to a choice between a) certain death in hi-sec or b) absolutely no ability to engage in nullsec PVP (ie the part of the game which isn't terminally boring) and no amount of introspection or angsty poetry can change that. You might to too brand loyal to countenence even the slightest criticism of the game, but my experiences of this game and it's community were pretty poor on the whole, i can see why it's the figure of such mockery and derision now I've actually had a go.

And I'd be really interested to year what these un-intended results are. What kind of threats are you making here? Be specific please and don't just quote me another poem.

This can not be a serious post.

You were in WH space making billions and isk was not an issue but left because it was boring due to no fights. Then you were doing grinding missions that you are now complaining about because CCP forced you to do them for money just so you could afford pvp...... that CCP falsely marketed in a pretend sandbox game.

I know this has probably been touched on before, but the whole 'never fly something you can't afford' to lose thing is not just an axiom in this game.
It's pretty much the first law of EVE.
Had you kept your ship choice more modest then the loss would not have put you in so much of a bind.
A beat up truck would have done the job, but instead you went with the sports car with spinning rims and ground lighting... and then someone jacked it.
This sucks, but it's also the nature of the game. Grab a couple beers, kick back and let the anger flow out of you. Take the good bits of advice that have been proffered and think on em. Fit up another ship that's more affordable and get yourself back on your feet.
Your position is not untenable. Recovery is always possible.
Life under wardec isn't the end of the world either, many of us here operate under multiple wardecs continuously... you just need to learn to adapt to it.

Yes. I made billions WH ratting and ended up after what, 2-3 months of being in a nullsec corp, running out of ISK and with no alternative source of ISK (due to circumstances that aren't typical, but simultaneously aren't glitches but features of the game)

There's also the issue of standings, which I couldn't raise, meaning I could never go back to hi-sec (or Thera) without running the gauntlet (which I don't mind doing, getting a chase is about as much fun as I could've possibly had at that time, but got me told off by my corp mates cos apparently losing a shuttle or ceptor is the End of Days....) whereas everyone else had a network of jump clones and so on already set up.

had I spent another few months just doing nothing but missions it woud've been possible for me to play nullsec PvP, but I've only been playing the game 6 months and most of the standings are very low, the missions are amazingly boring and unrewarding (by design imo) and these are the pre-requisites for actually being able to play the game.

ISK isn't an issue until it runs out, is it? And you can't even get back upto hi-sec to sell some of your loot without losng 2 ceptors or whatever in the process. And when you do you get wardecced. Kinda feels like I was totally boxed off, that there's nothing I could do to get around this (god knows I tried at the time and nothing worked out)

Do people as a general rule here think that everyone who's been let down and disappointed by the game is making it up, or at fault in some way? Or are there people willing the accept the game is anything less than perfect? Some of you have made some interesting points but trying to talk to Eve players about faults in Eve is like trying to convince North Koreans that Kim Jong-Un doesn't make the sun rise and fall every day, it just can't be done.

"Contrite - feeling or expressing remorse at the recognition that one has done wrong."

Thank you Google dictionary.

I am remorseful (does this word suit you better?) that I am unable to express myself adequately to the lowest-common-denominator without them feeling resentful.

I am remorseful that others choose to ignore the message and rather choose to shoot the messenger.

I am remorseful that some people will stubbornly hold their point of view, even with an avalanche of evidence to the contrary.

Did you ever consider that your "chosen playstyle" may not, in fact, be for you? And that your current predicament is the result of your past actions and are thus your own fault?

...Oh wait, there's that "mirror" thing again, where someone tells you that you are your own worst enemy. I'm so sorry about that. Mirrors are just evil that way. They should be nerfed to not do that again.

What I meant to say was:

I am remorseful to have ever questioned you and your obviously well thought out argument that Eve is a pay-to-play game and thus is evil and we should all stop because you can't shoot red boxes in peace.

I am remorseful to have even attempted to hold your argument up to the light of day and criticized it in any way.

I am remorseful for making you angry. You're obviously someone I should fear and your opinion of me is something I hold in highest regard.

I shall now go stand in the corner and keep my logical opinions to myself, since logic obviously has no place in this topic.And neither does this here mirror.

Oh lastly, thank you very much for that article link [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language[/url]

I had forgotten that the very act of writing is never in itself a form of entertainment, even a reply to a post of a game that by OP is "badly designed". From now on, I shall endeavour... I mean, make sure, I communicate in a business-like fashion just for you.

Let's forget that the article originally written by George Orwell was about not being lazy with language, putting effort and proper thought into your communication. Not, as I understand it, as you deem to remove all elaborate or literary words and phrases.

Cannibal Kane can speak for himself (or not, as he chooses). You have a point; just because I have a healthy level of respect/fear of the man does not automatically mean you should. This is not a debate about religion, after all...

...The Church of Cannibal Kane...Let it be known it was started here!

Having been chastised for only reading the posts here (instead of studying them in their deep, philosophical meaning), having done so I still cannot find any reasoning on your part other than "I made decisions and the unintended consequences are affecting my current intended gameplay. I don't like this and I choose to rather blame others and the game instead of take responsibility."

To "create" a simile/metaphor (since using an already published one is not allowed), that is the same as saying: "You Buddhists are too pacifist, even to the point of allowing harm to come to you by others. I don't like that because it negates my view the people are inherently aggressive and I live my life that way and you are negating my chosen lifestyle." (if this is not an adequate example, I am contritely remorseful. Perhaps you could give a better "home-spun" illustration).

Though I do have to give you credit: you have at least remained resolute in your defense of your position and attended to your thread through at least four pages of constant and continuous mirror-holding. Your resilience does you credit, if nothing else.

Also, alts are totally a thing. Both for moving undetected and for experiencing parts of the game you may have inadvertently locked yourself out of. Biomass and restarting from new is another available choice, though you may find that unpalatable.

Yes but there were objections to this in my corp. As a service it's extremely limited and wasn't suitable for what I needed to do.



Could you go into more detail about this?



There's nothing to learn though in terms of gameplay. All the things you're trying to tell me, about my ship, jump clones, etc, were things I was perfectly aware of months ago and made absolutely no difference whatsoever to my course of action.

All i've learned is that Eve fanboys refuse to accept any fault with their game whatsoever and their community has a mental age of about 12.